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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Agree that chargers won't fit the gas station business model. But I suspect we'll see new ones come up. A few of the Target stores around me have Tesla superchargers in the parking lots. Works pretty well -- I'm guessing Target is not charging (no pun intended) Tesla for the space and Tesla can set the price to break even or whatever they want based on electricity cost. And charging while shopping works well for Target and customers. Wins all around.

Some of the strip malls around here also have free ad-supported Level 2 chargers. Basically digital billboards with a plug scattered around the parking lot. Not quite sure I see the economics there but perhaps it works.
That's why I said they'll be where they make sense - along highways for interstate travelers, cities for apartment dwellers, offices & malls where you are in them for longer times and of course, home.

And of course, we will get to subsidize the less financially secure folks as the types of people who cry "privilege" will point out that it costs more to get electric at the mall or "electric station" while conveniently forgetting it cost me $2k to install my own charger.
 

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^^^If you buy a new 2022 Bolt/EUV GM will pay for your 240V home charger.
 
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That's why I said they'll be where they make sense - along highways for interstate travelers, cities for apartment dwellers, offices & malls where you are in them for longer times and of course, home.

And of course, we will get to subsidize the less financially secure folks as the types of people who cry "privilege" will point out that it costs more to get electric at the mall or "electric station" while conveniently forgetting it cost me $2k to install my own charger.

Why does this conversation always come down to cost? Why can't people understand that the future of electric cars will get better. Focusing on the positive instead of harping on the negative.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
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Why does this conversation always come down to cost? Why can't people understand that the future of electric cars will get better. Focusing on the positive instead of harping on the negative.
Yes, I expect long term the costs will come down, they better, or GM is toast. However, if you want fast charging at home, you'll always need a special charger - extra cost. No matter what, everyone is out to make a buck and most of us are trying to keep that buck in our pocket - thus a high interest in cost. And, we've all seen the power of marketing and how they hide little bits of detail and many of us on GMI like to ferret out where those hidden costs are.

While my comment about being taxed is negative, the rest of my post is not - just exploring the possibilities.

And, perhaps food for thought for you. If we all said "awesome - great tech and will be cheaper" or "this new Escalade is the best thing since sliced bread", what will there be to talk about? As long as everyone is civil and not name talking/talking down it is interesting to exchange ideas, even if I don't agree. GMI isn't like a lot of the other automotive forums with a million members and hard to have a meaningful conversation. On GMI there are maybe 20 or 30 active posters and we go back and forth a lot - it is what makes GMI interesting for me (again, as long as it stays civil).
 

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Yes, I expect long term the costs will come down, they better, or GM is toast. However, if you want fast charging at home, you'll always need a special charger - extra cost. No matter what, everyone is out to make a buck and most of us are trying to keep that buck in our pocket - thus a high interest in cost. And, we've all seen the power of marketing and how they hide little bits of detail and many of us on GMI like to ferret out where those hidden costs are.

While my comment about being taxed is negative, the rest of my post is not - just exploring the possibilities.

And, perhaps food for thought for you. If we all said "awesome - great tech and will be cheaper" or "this new Escalade is the best thing since sliced bread", what will there be to talk about? As long as everyone is civil and not name talking/talking down it is interesting to exchange ideas, even if I don't agree. GMI isn't like a lot of the other automotive forums with a million members and hard to have a meaningful conversation. On GMI there are maybe 20 or 30 active posters and we go back and forth a lot - it is what makes GMI interesting for me (again, as long as it stays civil).

Instead of saying this is not going to work, let's talk about the decisions that have been made to make this work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Instead of saying this is not going to work, let's talk about the decisions that have been made to make this work.
I'm not clear on what I said that won't work. I'm conjecturing on what will happen in the future.
 

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^^^If you buy a new 2022 Bolt/EUV GM will pay for your 240V home charger.
Probably should buy a Bolt while they have a ton of money on the hood AND throwing in a free charger - they certainly won't be doing that in a few years!
The "Free Install" is on the 2022's, which aren't out yet, the deals are on 2020's and 2021's.

Free charger is a gimmick, I think you can get ~$15,000 off on one of those, more than enough saving to pay for your own install.
(but gimmicks do work, that is what most of marketing is)

Why does this conversation always come down to cost? Why can't people understand that the future of electric cars will get better. Focusing on the positive instead of harping on the negative.
Remember "Bag Phones" in the late 1980's and early 1990's?
- They were TOO BIG and TOO EXPENSIVE

Is that "negative" or reality? Do you think everyone would have a phone if they were as expensive and big as they were 30 years ago?

Instead of saying this is not going to work, let's talk about the decisions that have been made to make this work.
I've said for a while, when EV's makes sense, they'll make sense, until then?..... They won't.
- And Government could very-well, be the driver in pushing the string to get us there.

I'm not clear on what I said that won't work. I'm conjecturing on what will happen in the future.
If the "flaws" don't resolve themselves EV's will become the common-place many think is inevitable..........

I'm sure there are hundreds of "great ideas" that never came to fruition, because the drawbacks couldn't be eliminated.
- Remember E85, we were going to get the majority of our vehicle fuel from seaweed and corn!?
 

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The "Free Install" is on the 2022's, which aren't out yet, the deals are on 2020's and 2021's.

Free charger is a gimmick, I think you can get ~$15,000 off on one of those, more than enough saving to pay for your own install.
(but gimmicks do work, that is what most of marketing is)



Remember "Bag Phones" in the late 1980's and early 1990's?
- They were TOO BIG and TOO EXPENSIVE

Is that "negative" or reality? Do you think everyone would have a phone if they were as expensive and big as they were 30 years ago?



I've said for a while, when EV's makes sense, they'll make sense, until then?..... They won't.
- And Government could very-well, be the driver in pushing the string to get us there.



If the "flaws" don't resolve themselves EV's will become the common-place many think is inevitable..........

I'm sure there are hundreds of "great ideas" that never came to fruition, because the drawbacks couldn't be eliminated.
- Remember E85, we were going to get the majority of our vehicle fuel from seaweed and corn!?
These are all great points, I feel like the automotive industry has decided that this is the direction they want to go and there will be no turning back once it begins.

I've lived in the performance world my whole life, building fast cars and trucks for my friends and myself. With the EPA and local governments cracking down on being able to put mods on vehicles anymore. It makes no sense to pay any attention to gas and diesel engines anymore. I have a 70 C10 383/700R4/3.73 I put that engine transmission combo in 15 years ago. I've been thinking about changing the engine, but with the idea of a electric crate engine that was at SEMA last year. Guys like me are holding off to see when that conversion is available.

The electric world is our future so let's figure out how to make it work for all of us.
 

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These are all great points, I feel like the automotive industry has decided that this is the direction they want to go and there will be no turning back once it begins.
Unlike E85 or swimming up-stream?

I've lived in the performance world my whole life, building fast cars and trucks for my friends and myself. With the EPA and local governments cracking down on being able to put mods on vehicles anymore. It makes no sense to pay any attention to gas and diesel engines anymore. I have a 70 C10 383/700R4/3.73 I put that engine transmission combo in 15 years ago. I've been thinking about changing the engine, but with the idea of a electric crate engine that was at SEMA last year. Guys like me are holding off to see when that conversion is available.
But we aren't talking about making a novelty hot rod, we sell ~17 million passenger cars and light truck in the US every year.

The electric world is our future so let's figure out how to make it work for all of us.
While I will admit, my gas-powered toothbrush idea never took off............

The electric powered lawnmower hasn't either, so I guess the score is 1 -1?

Point being, there isn't one answer for every problem.
 

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Unlike E85 or swimming up-stream?



But we aren't talking about making a novelty hot rod, we sell ~17 million passenger cars and light truck in the US every year.



While I will admit, my gas-powered toothbrush idea never took off............

The electric powered lawnmower hasn't either, so I guess the score is 1 -1?

Point being, there isn't one answer for every problem.
E85 was a CAFE loophole GM and "friends" wanted because it was WAY cheaper then hybrids and worked with Pickups

and 10 million as EV's is NOT an expected number for 15 to 20 years +/-
Nissan "advertised" a gas toothbrush
but electric lawnmowers are a thing and selling in big numbers and have for 50 years + unless "take off" requires almost 100%
Packard Powered: 1950s Dunlap Electric Mower here is an ELECTRIC mower with GM power from the 50s
 

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E85 was a CAFE loophole GM and "friends" wanted because it was WAY cheaper then hybrids and worked with Pickups

and 10 million as EV's is NOT an expected number for 15 to 20 years +/-
Nissan "advertised" a gas toothbrush
but electric lawnmowers are a thing and selling in big numbers and have for 50 years + unless "take off" requires almost 100%
Packard Powered: 1950s Dunlap Electric Mower here is an ELECTRIC mower with GM power from the 50s
I bought a 'lektrik lawn mower. I much preferred my gasser. Only thing is the carb got gummed up from sitting all winter.
 
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I bought a 'lektrik lawn mower. I much preferred my gasser. Only thing is the carb got gummed up from sitting all winter.
Maybe GM should design Ultium powered lawn mowers!
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Maybe GM should design Ultium powered lawn mowers!
I wonder if the Ultium batteries can be used for lawn equipment and other uses. I'd think they can and supplying batteries for yard equipment could be a nice side business; if they are building batteries they might as well build as many as they can. I'd buy a battery powered lawnmower if it had a 33 inch deck and the battery can last a little over an hour (as long as it doesn't cost $5k).
 

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Maybe GM should design Ultium powered lawn mowers!
Somehow I don't think a $6,000 21" lawnmower that weighs 750 lbs. would sell well.

I wonder if the Ultium batteries can be used for lawn equipment and other uses. I'd think they can and supplying batteries for yard equipment could be a nice side business; if they are building batteries they might as well build as many as they can. I'd buy a battery powered lawnmower if it had a 33 inch deck and the battery can last a little over an hour (as long as it doesn't cost $5k).
$4,995?

I bought a Toro TimeMaster twin-blade, 30" cut; it is freaking awesome!
(My back yard is about a 1/4 acre)
 
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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Somehow I don't think a $6,000 21" lawnmower that weighs 750 lbs. would sell well.

$4,995?

I bought a Toro TimeMaster twin-blade, 30" cut; it is freaking awesome!
(My back yard is about a 1/4 acre)
$4,995 - now you are talking :D :D :D

30" would do! My yard is about .8 acres - think it has enough juice to do something that big on one charge? Though may not be for me yet - it also needs to be able to do the whole yard in the late fall when it might be in the 40's when I'm mowing. I see a drastic drop-off in my battery leaf blower in the cold, so I assume even if a mower can cut my entire yard at 75 degrees it won't be able to at 45 degrees....
 

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Maw your lawn, in a Chevrolet?
While seeing the USA! I hear an advertising jingle in my head, along with the voices. All they need is Dinah Shore and Burt Reynolds and they have a winnah ad!
 

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$4,995 - now you are talking :D :D :D

30" would do! My yard is about .8 acres - think it has enough juice to do something that big on one charge? Though may not be for me yet - it also needs to be able to do the whole yard in the late fall when it might be in the 40's when I'm mowing. I see a drastic drop-off in my battery leaf blower in the cold, so I assume even if a mower can cut my entire yard at 75 degrees it won't be able to at 45 degrees....
No-way would it do it in one charge; you would be cutting 3 days in a row; 1/3, 1/3, 1/3.

I actually have to re-fuel mid-mow, can't get it done on one tank of gas.
(takes about 45 seconds to "recharge") :p
 
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