GM Inside News Forum banner

1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,456 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To Put ‘Everybody In’ an Electric Vehicle, GM Introduces Ultium Charge 360
April 28, 2021

  • Ultium Charge 360 will integrate charging networks, GM vehicle mobile apps, and other products and services to simplify customer charging experience
  • GM collaborates with seven major charging networks to offer customers more seamless access to nearly 60,000 plugs across the U.S. and Canada
  • GM and EVgo launch first Ultium-ready fast chargers; approximately 500 fast charging stalls to go live the by end of 2021
DETROIT – Today General Motors introduced Ultium Charge 360, a holistic charging approach that integrates charging networks, GM vehicle mobile apps1, and other products and services to simplify the overall charging experience for GM electric vehicle owners. Ultium Charge 360 builds on GM’s existing charging efforts to provide GM EV owners more confidence and convenience when it comes to EV charging.

“GM agrees with the customer need for a robust charging experience that makes the transition to an EV seamless and helps drive mass adoption,” said Travis Hester, GM’s chief EV officer. “As we launch 30 EVs globally by the end of 2025, Ultium Charge 360 simplifies and improves the at-home charging experience and the public charging experience – whether it’s community-based or road-trip charging.”

Ultium Charge 360 is a holistic charging experience offering:

  • Access to Charging: GM will continue to work with a variety of third parties, including charge point operators, electric utilities and government agencies to make home, workplace, public and fleet charging ubiquitous for customers.
  • Mobile Apps: GM will continue to update the GM vehicle mobile apps to provide an even more intuitive mobile experience that makes navigating to a charging station, plugging into a charger and paying for charging simple.
  • Products and Services: To help ensure the transition to an EV is seamless, GM is working to offer EV owners charging accessories and installation services tailored to their lifestyle. For example, GM will cover standard installation of Level 2 charging capability for eligible customers who purchase or lease a 2022 Bolt EUV or Bolt EV in collaboration with Qmerit.
More at link
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,456 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Not a terribly exciting topic, seems like the way to go as the time is past for proprietary charging stations as Tesla has.

GM has been doing pretty well with easy to use tech, hopefully this is a continuation of that trend!
 

·
Registered
2014 BMW 320i; 1972 Chevy Nova
Joined
·
3,554 Posts
Sounds interesting, I'll have to look into whether this works with older GM EVs such as Spark EV (my wife has a 2015 Spark EV).

Anyone know if Ultium Charge 360 requires an active OnStar subscription for full functionality?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,149 Posts
Any brand car can pull into any gasoline station and use a standardized grade of gasoline. That's what we're used to having. This same ability has to be available for any brand EV before the public is going to accept them. Charging standardization is a must.

Brings back memories of the old VHS and Betamax war.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Not a terribly exciting topic, seems like the way to go as the time is past for proprietary charging stations as Tesla has.
That is why Tesla will have over 60% US BEV market share this year, next year and for the foreseeable future.

This situation is closer to Apple vs Android than VHS vs Betamax.

Betamax owners had no choice but to go outside the Betamax universe to buy/rent tapes.

Tesla owners can live very happily inside the Tesla ecosystem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,785 Posts
Any brand car can pull into any gasoline station and use a standardized grade of gasoline. That's what we're used to having. This same ability has to be available for any brand EV before the public is going to accept them. Charging standardization is a must.

Brings back memories of the old VHS and Betamax war.
What would be nice? For you to go onto any GM vehicle website that sells electric cars (Chevy, Cadillac) and for there to be an easy-to-find map that shows every place you can plug in your charge to charge it in public.

Tesla has a map of all of their superchargers. Third party sites have maps of the entire country showing sites....why does GM not have that on their sites showing the locations? I know when I consider buying an EV that is one of the FIRST things I want to know and see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,456 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
That is why Tesla will have over 60% US BEV market share this year, next year and for the foreseeable future.

This situation is closer to Apple vs Android than VHS vs Betamax.

Betamax owners had no choice but to go outside the Betamax universe to buy/rent tapes.

Tesla owners can live very happily inside the Tesla ecosystem.
Tesla had to make their own charging network because there wasn't incentive for a 3rd party to enter the market,. Simply because it would be a long time until there were enough Tesla's on the road to make a charging network profitable.

Now that almost all the manufacturers are going into the BEV market, it doesn't make sense for each manufacturer to have their own network. An analogy is that each brand have their own gas stations - makes no sense.

To an extent, it is nice to have the dedicated brand electric stations as the brand can control the experience, but, I don't think it is necessary and makes sense anymore.

Tesla does have a large BEV market share, but they haven't had true competition. Everything from the competition has still been in that science experiment category. But now we are starting to see credible, mainstream electrics hit the market and it will turn into a flood over the next 5 or so years.
 

·
Registered
2014 BMW 320i; 1972 Chevy Nova
Joined
·
3,554 Posts
Any brand car can pull into any gasoline station and use a standardized grade of gasoline. That's what we're used to having. This same ability has to be available for any brand EV before the public is going to accept them. Charging standardization is a must.

Brings back memories of the old VHS and Betamax war.
Consolidation is underway now in terms of EV charging connector standards in the U.S. For Level 1 and 2 AC charging, all EVs from real automakers are compatible with J1772 connector. For DC Fast Charging, CCS has won the "plug war" over CHAdeMO. Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV are the only remaining plug-in cars/light trucks in the U.S. market that use CHAdeMO; Nissan's upcoming Ariya will use CCS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43,942 Posts
But Tesla had to do it because there wasn't much incentive for a 3rd party to enter the market as it would be a long time until there was enough Tesla's to make it profitable.

Now that almost all the manufacturers are going into the BEV market, it doesn't make sense for each manufacturer to have their own network. An analogy is that each brand have their own gas stations - makes no sense.

To an extent, it is nice to have the dedicated brand electric stations as the brand can control the experience, but, I don't think it is necessary and makes sense anymore.

Tesla does have a large BEV market share, but they haven't had true competition. Everything from the competition has still been in that science experiment category.

Tesla's Supercharger network is a strength. It's a "you know what you get" situation. Third party EV networks, you're not entirely sure what you're going to get. At least in the short term. And as you said, Tesla can control the experience. And if you're not near a Supercharger, you can carry an adapter with you, which then opens up the other EV charging stations.

Besides, 15 minutes to add 200 mile range on the V3 chargers is pretty good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,008 Posts
Tesla's Supercharger network is a strength. It's a "you know what you get" situation. Third party EV networks, you're not entirely sure what you're going to get. At least in the short term. And as you said, Tesla can control the experience. And if you're not near a Supercharger, you can carry an adapter with you, which then opens up the other EV charging stations.

Besides, 15 minutes to add 200 mile range on the V3 chargers is pretty good.
Exactly. I can see in my in-car nav map where the nearby superchargers are, how many charging slots each of those has, how many of those are occupied vs free etc. without having to even pull out my phone (which is important as you'd often want to check this while driving). In locations where there's a lounge, door entry codes are also in the map. It's easy, convenient, and predictable.

My office (when we used to actually go to work) used to have free ChargePoint chargers. I couldn't get that level of info even in ChargePoint's own app. Things will definitely get better over time but, for now, I have a hard time seeing aggregating third parties allowing for the level of integration Tesla has.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,456 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Tesla's Supercharger network is a strength. It's a "you know what you get" situation. Third party EV networks, you're not entirely sure what you're going to get. At least in the short term. And as you said, Tesla can control the experience. And if you're not near a Supercharger, you can carry an adapter with you, which then opens up the other EV charging stations.

Besides, 15 minutes to add 200 mile range on the V3 chargers is pretty good.
Brands having their own charging stations might be the way to go for luxury cars, or at least in certain areas, so that they can provide a better experience. But as charging times come down, I don't see it as that big of a win. Though on the flip side, I'm sure the cost of an electric station is a lot lower than a gas station which opens up the opportunity to have these branded stations.

I feel like the way BEV vehicles are "filled up" will end up being a lot different that what we are used to. I can see the need for charging stations in city areas and "out in the middle of nowhere" areas. City simply because many apartment dwellers won't have a place to charge. I can see charging stations along highways and in the middle of nowhere for long term travelers, but in suburban areas, like where I live, I see more charging being done at home, work or at a mall/grocery stores - less of a need for a stand alone charging station, especially a branded one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,456 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Exactly. I can see in my in-car nav map where the nearby superchargers are, how many charging slots each of those has, how many of those are occupied vs free etc. without having to even pull out my phone (which is important as you'd often want to check this while driving). In locations where there's a lounge, door entry codes are also in the map. It's easy, convenient, and predictable.

My office (when we used to actually go to work) used to have free ChargePoint chargers. I couldn't get that level of info even in ChargePoint's own app. Things will definitely get better over time but, for now, I have a hard time seeing aggregating third parties allowing for the level of integration Tesla has.
But you need that now because charging times are long. Everything we are hearing points to shortened charge times and therefore less of a need to know if there are empty slots.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,008 Posts
But you need that now because charging times are long. Everything we are hearing points to shortened charge times and therefore less of a need to know if there are empty slots.
I think it'll be important for the foreseeable future as most 3rd party charging locations have relatively few charging spots (Superchargers generally tend to have more spots but there are also more Teslas around). Even at ~15min/charge, you don't want to be stuck behind a few other people if you can avoid it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
957 Posts
Tesal supercharger station near me has 10 plugs. I've never seen more than 6, maybe 7 vehicles there (also never seen less than 3). But the next nearest station only has 4.
A bigger problem I've seen when researching into local-to-me charger is the restrictions (non-Tesla): either inoperative chargers, slow chargers, limited hours, restricted access. Those last 2 probably don't apply to Tesla, but I wonder to what extent the first 2 do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,209 Posts
Tesal supercharger station near me has 10 plugs. I've never seen more than 6, maybe 7 vehicles there (also never seen less than 3). But the next nearest station only has 4.
A bigger problem I've seen when researching into local-to-me charger is the restrictions (non-Tesla): either inoperative chargers, slow chargers, limited hours, restricted access. Those last 2 probably don't apply to Tesla, but I wonder to what extent the first 2 do.
I've experienced some slower charging when all bases were loaded at a supercharger station when I was traveling a while back but from my experiences every station where I stopped had no restrictions and none of the stations had out of order chargers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,008 Posts
A couple of important points about Charge 360 pointed out in the Electrek article on it:
GM didn’t talk about Electrify America, the biggest charging network which is noticeably absent from the list of their partner networks but did say in a press conference preceding the news that they would be open to other CPOs and that they were focused on the experience.

In the same conference call with reporters, GM also dismissed a question about Plug and Charge standard – inarguably the most important feature and future of electric vehicle charging. GM clearly will have to adapt this standard and hopefully the Lyriq and Hummer will have to get there. As of Now Ford’s Mustang and Porsche’s Taycan are the only Plug and Charge capable EVs in the US though Volkswagen has said it will also be coming to the ID.4 via Software update.
EA is a huge omission, if it's not part of this. Hopefully EA can be added soon.

GM needs to get on board with Plug and Charge. Ford may be behind GM in core EV technology development but, in everything else, it feels like Ford "gets" the EV market better than GM does.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,430 Posts
Seems like a logical way to go, but how much does it cost; who pays for it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Neanderthal

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Tesla had to make their own charging network because there wasn't incentive for a 3rd party to enter the market,. Simply because it would be a long time until there were enough Tesla's on the road to make a charging network profitable.

Now that almost all the manufacturers are going into the BEV market, it doesn't make sense for each manufacturer to have their own network. An analogy is that each brand have their own gas stations - makes no sense.

To an extent, it is nice to have the dedicated brand electric stations as the brand can control the experience, but, I don't think it is necessary and makes sense anymore.

Tesla does have a large BEV market share, but they haven't had true competition. Everything from the competition has still been in that science experiment category. But now we are starting to see credible, mainstream electrics hit the market and it will turn into a flood over the next 5 or so years.
The best non Tesla network is Electrify America. And it isn't being created because market dynamics have changed but because dieselgate forced VW to spend $2B on an American charging network.

I don't think charging networks will ever make money. Metro chargers need to be supported ,at some point, by local businesses to attract captive customers. The same way convenience stores attract customers by selling cheap gas. The difference being a $4 sale of a drink plus a snack is enough for a 5 minute ICEv pit stop. Not so much for a 30-40 minute charging session. Less through put requires a higher sale per vehicle stop.

Inter City chargers will need to be supported by automakers. Each doesn't need to support their own network. They can do like in Europe and band together like Ionity.

Tesla, a premium brand, wants its customers to have a premium experience and will support the network at a small loss to support sales. This seems to boost sales better than national advertising campaigns. More 350 kW chargers less Will Farrell might spur more Ultium sales.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,430 Posts
The best non Tesla network is Electrify America. And it isn't being created because market dynamics have changed but because dieselgate forced VW to spend $2B on an American charging network.

I don't think charging networks will ever make money. Metro chargers need to be supported ,at some point, by local businesses to attract captive customers. The same way convenience stores attract customers by selling cheap gas. The difference being a $4 sale of a drink plus a snack is enough for a 5 minute ICEv pit stop. Not so much for a 30-40 minute charging session. Less through put requires a higher sale per vehicle stop.

Inter City chargers will need to be supported by automakers. Each doesn't need to support their own network. They can do like in Europe and band together like Ionity.

Tesla, a premium brand, wants its customers to have a premium experience and will support the network at a small loss to support sales. This seems to boost sales better than national advertising campaigns. More 350 kW chargers less Will Farrell might spur more Ultium sales.
Agree with a lot of what you are saying here, I've long said the "business model" for charging stations doesn't seem feasible, I can't drive by the gas station and fill-up at home, but with an EV........... I can, and if I do need a charge to make it home, do I get just enough and finish the charge at home, or hang-out at the charging station for an hour and pay double what I would at home? I'll say it again, the only reason someone will charge away from home is out of desperation or cheaper than home, at best no more than your home rate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,008 Posts
Agree with a lot of what you are saying here, I've long said the "business model" for charging stations doesn't seem feasible, I can't drive by the gas station and fill-up at home, but with an EV........... I can, and if I do need a charge to make it home, do I get just enough and finish the charge at home, or hang-out at the charging station for an hour and pay double what I would at home? I'll say it again, the only reason someone will charge away from home is out of desperation or cheaper than home, at best no more than your home rate.
Agree that chargers won't fit the gas station business model. But I suspect we'll see new ones come up. A few of the Target stores around me have Tesla superchargers in the parking lots. Works pretty well -- I'm guessing Target is not charging (no pun intended) Tesla for the space and Tesla can set the price to break even or whatever they want based on electricity cost. And charging while shopping works well for Target and customers. Wins all around.

Some of the strip malls around here also have free ad-supported Level 2 chargers. Basically digital billboards with a plug scattered around the parking lot. Not quite sure I see the economics there but perhaps it works.
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Top