[RAB]

You make a very valid point.

However, how many complaining and those that do not complain will not consider a new GM vehicle due to GM's actions with the Envision (build in China for the USA).

I have owned various GM car's for the past four decades and this matter will definitely make me not consider a new GM in the future. Currently my immediate family owns five GM vehicles.

I think GM is "testing the waters" with the Envision and their future country-of-build decisions for many car lines will be based upon public outcry (or lack of it)

I think some individuals are reading way too much into GM's decision to source one (1) vehicle model from China. Much of the reaction/comment borders on paranoia. No one here loves the idea of the Envision for N.A. being built in China - and no one here is actually "defending" GM's decision; it's more of a willingness to consider and understand the rational economic money-saving business decision made by GM in this particular situation for this one vehicle model.
It is entirely possible that production of the Envision for N.A. will later on (perhaps 2018-2019?) be moved to a facility in North America, should sales of the premium compact CUV exceed expectations.

I think the real issue with most of the staunch naysayers here is that they have a hate-on for China.. with some also having a hate-on for GM and every decision they have ever made and will ever make.
If GM had decided the Envision for N.A. was going to be built in South Korea (another Asian country and where the Buick Encore is presently built) we'd probably be getting an almost zero reaction from forum members.

It's a little late for people to be complaining about yet another item (among the thousands) to be imported into the U.S. from China. The fight against this (Chinese imports) should have been initiated a long long time ago. Obviously that ship has sailed (opportunity missed).

So what's up?.. are you guys worried that the build quality going into the China-built Envision will show-up many/most of the GM vehicles that are built right here in North America? There's no way that's going to happen, right?

 

[red_rider]

I think some individuals are reading way too much into GM's decision to source one (1) vehicle model, at least initially, from China. Much of the reaction/comment borders on paranoia. No one here loves the idea of the Envision for N.A. being built in China - and no one here is actually "defending" GM's decision; it's more of a willingness to consider and understand the rational economic money-saving business decision made by GM in this particular situation for this one vehicle model.

I think the real issue with most of the staunch naysayers here is that they have a hate-on for China.. with some also having a hate-on for GM and every decision they have ever made and will ever make.
If GM had decided the Envision for N.A. was going to be built in South Korea (another Asian country and where the Buick Encore is presently built) we'd probably be getting an almost zero reaction from forum members.

It's a little late for people to be complaining about yet another item (among the thousands) to be imported into the U.S. from China. The fight against this (Chinese imports) should have been initiated a long long time ago. Obviously that ship has sailed (opportunity missed).

So what's up?.. are you guys worried that the build quality going into the China-built Envision will show-up many/most of the GM vehicles that are built right here in North America? There's no way that's going to happen, right?

There's "nothing up" in my case at least, just that I like to buy cars and other products made in the U.S.

 

[goatgary]

this matter will definitely make me not consider a new GM in the future.

So as I said in post 133, you are perfectly comfortable sticking it to the US auto worker by not buying GM because the bean counters made a business decision you don't like? I repeat... illogical infantile and ridiculous. Forgot to add...PATHETIC!

 

[Rocket 88]

I think some individuals are reading way too much into GM's decision to source one (1) vehicle model, at least initially, from China. Much of the reaction/comment borders on paranoia. No one here loves the idea of the Envision for N.A. being built in China - and no one here is actually "defending" GM's decision; it's more of a willingness to consider and understand the rational economic money-saving business decision made by GM in this particular situation for this one vehicle model.

I think the real issue with most of the staunch naysayers here is that they have a hate-on for China.. with some also having a hate-on for GM and every decision they have ever made and will ever make.
If GM had decided the Envision for N.A. was going to be built in South Korea (another Asian country and where the Buick Encore is presently built) we'd probably be getting an almost zero reaction from forum members.

It's a little late for people to be complaining about yet another item (among the thousands) to be imported into the U.S. from China. The fight against this (Chinese imports) should have been initiated a long long time ago. Obviously that ship has sailed (opportunity missed).

So what's up?.. are you guys worried that the build quality going into the China-built Envision will show-up many/most of the GM vehicles that are built right here in North America? There's no way that's going to happen, right?

You're entitled to your opinion, however you need to accept other people's opinion that this is a horrible development.

First, this is a company that was saved from extermination by the US taxpayer and has waved the flag and have insisted they are an American institution. The great American Road belongs to Buick. See the USA in your Chevrolet. An American Revolution. Baseball Hotdogs Apple Pie and Chevrolet...

Secondly, This is a GM company the pooped a monkey about potentially losing IP in the Saab deal and is openly sharing it with their 'required' 50% Chinese Partners.

Third, This is a company that supposedly shot down the Saturn Vue as the Buick Vue because of their high standards and are now importing a vehicle from China. For a segment Buick needed a product in then just as much as now.

People here DID complain about GM bringing in POS cars from Korea/Daewoo but sure it's generally less offensive when we import from an allied country then from a communist enemy.

People have been complaining for DECADES about all the crap that comes from China and I bet you can't find one person here who is against this move that hasn't been against all the other industries that sold us out for cheap Chinese products. That fight WAS initiated a long long time ago and it hasn't gone real well. But people were screaming about 'look for the union lablel and USA made clothing in the 1970's!

This is a GM built car and GM knows how to build cars. It doesn't matter if they do it in the USA, Canada, Mexico, Korea, German, UK, Poland, Hungary or China. The product will be fine with the caveat that it will presumably have more China sourced parts and China has a demonstrated a disregard for toxicity in some of their products. But GM China knows how to build cars for sure and not one should expect anything much different.

The problem is GM is selling us down the river. This is just a first step. If you believe this is just about 1 vehicle you are wrong. If you think GM won't make this a common practice if it is successful you are wrong.

Toyota can buy and sell GM because they can produce cars cheaper. This is GM's opportunity to turn the tables. In another thread they're talking about GM 4G advantage which is a joke. Importing cars from China is GM's game changer.

 

[Z284ever]

So what's up?.. are you guys worried that the build quality going into the China-built Envision will show-up many/most of the GM vehicles that are built right here in North America? There's no way that's going to happen, right?

I'm sure the fit and finish will be up to snuff. But I would always wonder if the sheetmetal is radioactive or the sound insulation is toxic.....

 

[goatgary]

I'm sure the fit and finish will be up to snuff. But I would always wonder if the sheetetal is radioactive or the sound insulation is toxic.....

Nah! Just a listening bug in the left front pillar speaker.

 

[1999 White C5 Coupe]

So as I said in post 133, you are perfectly comfortable sticking it to the US auto worker by not buying GM because the bean counters made a business decision you don't like? I repeat... illogical infantile and ridiculous.

My post did not say I would be "sticking it to the US auto worker". It did say that I would not be considering GM vehicles.

After more than four decades of GM vehicles - earlier this year I bought a new 2015 Ford Expediton Limited 4x4 (the first Ford I ever purchased). It was build by US auto workers in Louisville, Kentucky.

 

[Ambalanche]

Well the comments on other sights are already starting. Go look at Burlapp for instance. I know many here don't like him, but people are NOT going to appreciate this once they hear...

 

[goatgary]

My post did not say I would be "sticking it to the US auto worker". It did say that I would not be considering GM vehicles.

After more than four decades of GM vehicles - earlier this year I bought a new 2015 Ford Expediton Limited 4x4 (the first Ford I ever purchased). It was build by US auto workers in Louisville, Kentucky.

You ARE walking away from the US GM autoworker...and the great products they make...regardless of how you stated it. Pitiful! Are you as vindictive in all the other personal disagreements you have? Hope the new year brings a much needed attitude adjustment.

 

[RAB]

You're entitled to your opinion, however you need to accept other people's opinion that this is a horrible development.

First, this is a company that was saved from extermination by the US taxpayer and has waved the flag and have insisted they are an American institution. The great American Road belongs to Buick. See the USA in your Chevrolet. An American Revolution. Baseball Hotdogs Apple Pie and Chevrolet...

Secondly, This is a GM company the pooped a monkey about potentially losing IP in the Saab deal and is openly sharing it with their 'required' 50% Chinese Partners.

Third, This is a company that supposedly shot down the Saturn Vue as the Buick Vue because of their high standards and are now importing a vehicle from China. For a segment Buick needed a product in then just as much as now.

People here DID complain about GM bringing in POS cars from Korea/Daewoo but sure it's generally less offensive when we import from an allied country then from a communist enemy.

People have been complaining for DECADES about all the crap that comes from China and I bet you can't find one person here who is against this move that hasn't been against all the other industries that sold us out for cheap Chinese products. That fight WAS initiated a long long time ago and it hasn't gone real well. But people were screaming about 'look for the union lablel and USA made clothing in the 1970's!

This is a GM built car and GM knows how to build cars. It doesn't matter if they do it in the USA, Canada, Mexico, Korea, German, UK, Poland, Hungary or China. The product will be fine with the caveat that it will presumably have more China sourced parts and China has a demonstrated a disregard for toxicity in some of their products. But GM China knows how to build cars for sure and not one should expect anything much different.

The problem is GM is selling us down the river. This is just a first step. If you believe this is just about 1 vehicle you are wrong. If you think GM won't make this a common practice if it is successful you are wrong.

Toyota can buy and sell GM because they can produce cars cheaper. This is GM's opportunity to turn the tables. In another thread they're talking about GM 4G advantage which is a joke. Importing cars from China is GM's game changer.

Rocket 88 - Yes, we are all entitled to our opinion. I agree with a couple of things you wrote above, and disagree with a couple of others. I do not agree that this is a "horrible development". GM going totally under (as in "over and out") back in 2008-09 would have been a horrible development. Yeah, that would have been pretty horrible for a whole lot of people.

Unfortunately whenever I write anything in this thread (and other similar threads about the Envision) the staunch naysayers here agree with nothing I write, from beginning to end. This to me shows a stubbornness, inflexibility and tone-deaf attitude that, IMO, goes well beyond rational thought. Anyway....

At this stage I only want to make 2 points...

1. GM was saved from extermination by not only the U.S. taxpayer but also the Canadian taxpayer. And to thank us Canadians for helping save their butts GM is looking more and more now at shutting down vehicle production in Canada, with no new plans announced for future product builds in Canada. Who knows - Oshawa Assembly may be gone in 3-5 years.
But with the above said... I still like GM products (will still buy them) and I can understand the rationale behind GM's decision to build the Envision for N.A. in China, with at least the potential for production of the Envision being shifted to N.A. at some stage should N.A. sales greatly exceed expectations.

2. Many of us have said this until we're blue in the face... but if it wasn't for China's love for the Buick brand.. if it wasn't for the huge number of Buicks being sold in China (1 million plus in c-y 2015), GM would have very likely done away with the Buick brand back in 2009-2010, along with Pontiac, Saturn, Saab and Hummer. So you can thank your "communist enemy" (to use your words) for saving Buick. But I don't know.. maybe you would have preferred Buick not being saved, and would be happy/content with GM having 1,000,000 + 200,000 fewer unit sales annually. Maybe you would rather have a much smaller GM in overall size, with even fewer brands, fewer sales, fewer capacities and fewer prospects for future growth and success.

I think we're just going 'round and round' with all of this, and it will never end.

The big question, of course, is how the premium compact CUV buyer next summer will view the Chinese-built Envision. Will he/she care about where it is built? Will they even think about it? That's what most of us are wondering about. To many people a vehicle is simply a large appliance (like a fridge, washer or dryer), and a whole lot of people are buying Asian-made appliances. China is in Asia. When people contemplate the Envision.. will they be thinking "Asian appliance" or "communist enemy"? It will be interesting to see what happens when these vehicles start arriving at dealerships in a few months.

 

[Z284ever]

Nah! Just a listening bug in the left front pillar speaker.

That too!

 

[eaton53]

Can you buy a Swedish/Belgian built S60? Yes, you can. ONLY the Inscription model is Chinese-made. Besides, two thirds of Volvo's sales are Wagons and CUVs made in Europe.

Can you buy an American made Buick? Yes, you can. ONLY the Envision is Chinese-made.
Most of Buick's U.S. sales are cars and CUVs made in North America.

 

[red_rider]

You ARE walking away from the US GM autoworker...and the great products they make...regardless of how you stated it. Pitiful! Are you as vindictive in all the other personal disagreements you have? Hope the new year brings a much needed attitude adjustment.

Sending a message to GM does not mean any malice towards GM's US workers. It would be on GM to consider all the consequences of any blowback, which I'm sure they already have and are taking the calculated risk. I agree I would still consider GM vehicles that are made in the US, but there's no need to be condescending about it either, like I've seen in your comments and many on this board. Hope the new year brings a much needed attitude adjustment.

 

[TheCarGonzo]

You ARE walking away from the US GM autoworker...and the great products they make...regardless of how you stated it. Pitiful! Are you as vindictive in all the other personal disagreements you have? Hope the new year brings a much needed attitude adjustment.

Too funny. Our patriotic man goatgary goes from stating "No problem buying their vehicles. The average Chinese auto worker is just trying to support their family just as we do" to lambasting another poster for buying a vehicle made in KENTUCKY, USA by UAW workers...

 

[TheCarGonzo]

Can you buy an American made Buick? Yes, you can. ONLY the Envision is Chinese-made.
Most of Buick's U.S. sales are cars and CUVs made in North America.

Darn, just couldn't adress that American company and it's bailout point, huh?

 

[TheCarGonzo]

Rocket 88 - Yes, we are all entitled to our opinion. I agree with a couple of things you wrote above, and disagree with a couple of others. I do not agree that this is a "horrible development". GM going totally under (as in "over and out") back in 2008-09 would have been a horrible development. Yeah, that would have been pretty horrible for a whole lot of people.

Unfortunately whenever I write anything in this thread (and other similar threads about the Envision) the staunch naysayers here agree with nothing I write, from beginning to end. This to me shows a stubbornness, inflexibility and tone-deaf attitude that, IMO, goes well beyond rational thought. Anyway....

At this stage I only want to make 2 points...

1. GM was saved from extermination by not only the U.S. taxpayer but also the Canadian taxpayer. And to thank us Canadians for helping save their butts GM is looking more and more now at shutting down vehicle production in Canada, with no new plans announced for future product builds in Canada. Who knows - Oshawa Assembly may be gone in 3-5 years.
But with the above said... I still like GM products (will still buy them) and I can understand the rationale behind GM's decision to build the Envision for N.A. in China, with at least the potential for production of the Envision being shifted to N.A. at some stage should N.A. sales greatly exceed expectations.

2. Many of us have said this until we're blue in the face... but if it wasn't for China's love for the Buick brand.. if it wasn't for the huge number of Buicks being sold in China (1 million plus in c-y 2015), GM would have very likely done away with the Buick brand back in 2009-2010, along with Pontiac, Saturn, Saab and Hummer. So you can thank your "communist enemy" (to use your words) for saving Buick. But I don't know.. maybe you would have preferred Buick not being saved, and would be happy/content with GM having 1,000,000 + 200,000 fewer unit sales annually. Maybe you would rather have a much smaller GM in overall size, with fewer brands, fewer sales, fewer capacities & prospects for future growth and success.

I think we're just going 'round and round' with all of this, and it will never end.

The big question, of course, is how the premium compact CUV buyer next summer will view the Chinese-built Envision. Will he/she care about where it is built? Will they even think about it? That's what most of us are wondering about. To many people a vehicle is simply a large appliance (like a fridge, washer or dryer), and a whole lot of people are buying Asian-made appliances. China is in Asia. When people contemplate the Envision.. will they be thinking "Asian appliance" or "communist enemy"? It will be interesting to see what happens when these vehicles start arriving at dealerships in a few months.

Too bad the ones of us who will stand up and argue for what we believe in are called "GM-haters." Yep, three GM's in my household, untold $$$ in parts over the years, yeah, I'm a hater.

 

[Ambalanche]

1. GM was saved from extermination by not only the U.S. taxpayer but also the Canadian taxpayer. And to thank us Canadians for helping save their butts GM is looking more and more now at shutting down vehicle production in Canada, with no new plans announced for future product builds in Canada. Who knows - Oshawa Assembly may be gone in 3-5 years.

All the more reason YOU should be pissed! GM should build the Envasion there!

 

[eaton53]

Darn, just couldn't adress that American company and it's bailout point, huh?

They paid it back and owe nothing. Point addressed.

 

[akbar]

I think GM was saved by the govt printing more money and China holds a gigantic amount of US debt.

So would not China have a hand in saving GM? just asking.....

 

[RAB]

Too bad the ones of us who will stand up and argue for what we believe in are called "GM-haters." Yep, three GM's in my household, untold $$$ in parts over the years, yeah, I'm a hater.

Unreal.. what a piece of work. You always come back with a personal attack on an individual when he states an opinion that is different from your own.
When did I ever use the term 'GM hater' in a response-post to what you had written? And why are you making yet another reference to politics (your ref. to the current political leader in my country who I incidentally did not vote for) when the administrators of this forum warned us only yesterday, in no uncertain terms, that political talk would not be tolerated? You're all over the map (literally) with your continual reference to political/geo-political situations and political/military locations - do I need to rhyme-off your recent ones? You're really quite the over-opinionated turd-disturber here, aren't you? I don't appreciate much of your narrative, your automatic assumptions of me and others for stating an opinion or your condescending attitude toward those who aren't "veterans of the military".

Administrators - how do I go about blocking-out the posts of this individual when I sign in?

Over and out.