[CJH]

It’s an inline 6.

But you bring up another likely point WRT Escalade buyers : 6 cylinders vs 8.

Sorry I mistyped.

If I did more miles, I would definitely consider one. But my Merc with the gas Turbo six will pull 22-24 at interstate speeds going to my cabin (depending on wind/traffic).

But I wouldn't mind a diesel AT4 either.......

 

[09W]

GM announced they built the 1 millionth Duramax 6.6L TD in 2007… but ‘no one wants diesels and they don’t sell’. 🤣

- - - - -
TDs don’t have to outsell gas; they have to be profitable, answer a market demand, and here- massively help with CAFE numbers. Clearly; they do all 3 so; volume is irrelevant. But it’s still very very solid in trucks.

Escalade V may well be profitable, but it doesn’t help with CAFE, ‘no one’ buys them, and they don’t come remotely close to non-V on sales ~ maybe it should be cancelled because ‘Americans don’t want it’.

I mean; what are we talking about here??

 

[Ute]

 

[gkr778]

Is the Escalade ESV "incompetantly marketed" because it doesn't sell more evenly-weighted with the standard wheelbase E?

If the effort of GM's marketing dweebs resulted in that outcome, yes.

 

[09W]

^ But did it? Or are we merely pointing at anything that displeases us about GM and blanket-stating 'Marketing!' ??

 

[gkr778]

^ But did it?

I don't know. But if it did, it exemplifies the legendary incompetence of GM's marketing dweebs.

 

[09W]

National average yesterday : Regular ~ $3.51, diesel ~ $3.84

Silverado 4WD ~
TurboMax 2.7L : option cost : $0, 18 / 21 MPG, 19 composite, regular gas.
12,500 miles/yr / 19 = 657 gals @ $3.51 = $2306 /yr

5.3L : option cost: $1595, 15 / 20 MPG, 17 composite, regular gas
12,500 miles/yr / 17 = 735 gals @ $3.51 = $2579 /yr

3.0L : option cost: $3010, 23/27 MPG, 25 composite, diesel
12,500 miles/yr / 25 = 500 gals @ $3.84 = $1920 /yr

Fuel plus option cost ~
5 years in the 2.7L = $11,530
5 years in the 5.3L = $14,490 (+$2960 vs. 2.7L)
5 years in the 3.0L = $12,610 (+$1080 vs. 2.7L, MINUS $1880 vs. 5.3L)

3.0L DuraMax pays for itself vs. the 5.3L between 4 & 5 years.

10 years in the 2.7L = $23,060
10 years in the 5.3L = $27,385
10 years in the 3.0L = $22,210

- - - - -
As reviewed elsewhere here, having recently put 1500-some miles on a 2.7L TurboMax Sierra on a regular long-distance back-road commute of 110 miles/day, it's MPG maxed out at 21.0 (vs. it's highway rating of 21).
Also having made dozens of the same 110-mile daily trip, the 3.0L DuraMax is returning 30+ MPG vs it's highway rating of 27 (my combo it actually rated 26 highway). Here's a shot of my trucks DIC from tonight
:

If I were to use, -say- 29.0 as my MPG average, the numbers work like this~

12,500 miles/yr / 29 = 431 gals @ $3.84 = $1655 /yr
5 years in the 3.0L = $12,285
10 years in the 3.0L = $19,560.

At the 10 yr mark, the 3.0L turbo-diesel costs $3500 LESS out of pocket vs. the 2.7L gas turbo.

 

[gkr778]

The bottom line is the extra costs of diesels (purchase price)

For 2024 Escalade, 3.0L Duramax I6 initial purchase price adds only $100 compared to 6.2L V8:

 

[BlackGTP]

GM announced they built the 1 millionth Duramax 6.6L TD in 2007… but ‘no one wants diesels and they don’t sell’. 🤣

- - - - -
TDs don’t have to outsell gas; they have to be profitable, answer a market demand, and here- massively help with CAFE numbers. Clearly; they do all 3 so; volume is irrelevant. But it’s still very very solid in trucks.

Escalade V may well be profitable, but it doesn’t help with CAFE, ‘no one’ buys them, and they don’t come remotely close to non-V on sales ~ maybe it should be cancelled because ‘Americans don’t want it’.

I mean; what are we talking about here??

You say "what are we talking about here" - I have no idea what you are arguing - you keep arguing the wrong point. I'll say it again "Diesel has its successful truck niche and modern ones are smooth and quiet". I am arguing that diesel is a failure outside that niche and the Escalade diesel cancelation is the latest example. Outside of pickup trucks diesel has never gained traction and never will. You go tell GM that customers WANT diesel, they are shouting on the rooftops for it in their Escalade and Chevy Trax and Buick Enclave. Then GM will point out they've tried it in the Cruze and Escalade and no one is buying it. And they'll also point out how all the German luxury makes and VW offered diesel options for years and they never made it out of "tiny niche".

The below is the first screen of the Build and Buy for the 2024 Escalade that gkr posted above. You can't miss the availability of the diesel; it doesn't need to be marketed any more than the 6.2 is (which they don't market the V8). Customers don't want it. If customers wanted it, then GM would continue to offer it. They were literally giving it away for only $100 more than the gas V8 and no one wanted it.

 

[BlackGTP]

For 2024 Escalade, 3.0L Duramax I6 initial purchase price adds only $100 compared to 6.2L V8:

View attachment 73052

And that exemplifies my point - GM is giving it away and people still don't want it.

 

[gkr778]

Advice from Car and Driver when they reviewed 2021 Cadillac Escalade:

Skip the night vision, keep the Super Cruise, and go diesel.

2021 Cadillac Escalade Diesel Is Smooth, Fuel-Sipping Euphoria
GM's Super Cruise hands-free driving tech, 27 mpg on the highway, and a smooth ride make for an excellent family hauler.

 

[gkr778]

people wanted cars with manual transmissions and diesel

Remarkably, Cadillac at one point offered a car with both manual transmission and diesel engine!

 

[09W]

I'll say it again "Diesel has its successful truck niche and modern ones are smooth and quiet".

My interjection is your couching of the segment as a "niche", coupled with 'no one wants diesels'. Both are a gross misrepresentation - GM alone has sold millions of diesels in the 21st century, diesel is easier to find with newer stations adding pumps, and they've spread to 1/2-ton models, which hasn't been seen in maybe ever. So Escalade buyers aren't looking for a 295 HP 6-cylinder in their $120K SUV- makes total sense in that singular example (of a small volume uber-lux vehicle). Meanwhile, Ford & GM continue to invest in next generations & plant expansions of diesels.

I am arguing that diesel is a failure outside that niche...

There's no argument there : a LOT of configurations are a volume failure outside of their 'niche'. I don't see the point of saying 'diesels died in cars, therefore it's obvious no one wants them in an Escalade' - that's a false equivalency. It's like trying to say no one wants convertibles because they never caught on much in trucks - diesels in cars was never a big volume thing, ever. Trucks are 20% of the USDM today... and still growing. In '85, GMC sold 105K full-size pickups, that number was tripled by 2023, and there's higher precentages of diesels now than then. It's not a 'niche' - it's a major, mainstream volume segment, a huge revenue & profit generator (and a CAFE & power champion for the segment).

I didn't know there was such demand - sounds like a gold mine.

 

[BlackGTP]

My interjection is your couching of the segment as a "niche", coupled with 'no one wants diesels'. Both are a gross misrepresentation - GM alone has sold millions of diesels in the 21st century, diesel is easier to find with newer stations adding pumps, and they've spread to 1/2-ton models, which hasn't been seen in maybe ever. So Escalade buyers aren't looking for a 295 HP 6-cylinder in their $120K SUV- makes total sense in that singular example (of a small volume uber-lux vehicle). Meanwhile, Ford & GM continue to invest in next generations & plant expansions of diesels.


There's no argument there : a LOT of configurations are a volume failure outside of their 'niche'. I don't see the point of saying 'diesels died in cars, therefore it's obvious no one wants them in an Escalade' - that's a false equivalency. It's like trying to say no one wants convertibles because they never caught on much in trucks - diesels in cars was never a big volume thing, ever. Trucks are 20% of the USDM today... and still growing. In '85, GMC sold 105K full-size pickups, that number was tripled by 2023, and there's higher precentages of diesels now than then. It's not a 'niche' - it's a major, mainstream volume segment, a huge revenue & profit generator (and a CAFE & power champion for the segment).

Below is the definition of "niche" from dictionary.com. Pickups are a niche, diesel pickups are a sub-niche of pickups as are gas pickups. midsize passenger cars are a niche. sports cars are a niche - every segment is a niche.

The word "niche" is not an insult.

And when I say "no one" I think it is clear I mean "not enough to support production" and not in the literal sense.

 

[Envoy4Life]

Diesel in America is absolutely niche. It accounts for like 3% of total registered vehicles in the entire country. If that isn’t niche I don’t know what is.

 

[09W]

^ See definition above; a niche apparently has no volume association with it whatsoever. 😉

 

[AWHoden]

Diesel in America is absolutely niche. It accounts for like 3% of total registered vehicles in the entire country. If that isn’t niche I don’t know what is.

That is a smaller percentage than EV's, just saying, and they derogatorily say EV's are a niche, so......niche say what?

 

[AWHoden]

Well 3% isn't much of the market, there has to be a reason people...sorry, not very many people aren't buying them.

 

[BlackGTP]

^ See definition above; a niche apparently has no volume association with it whatsoever. 😉

You know what I'd do in this situation? I'd say, "sorry guys, I didn't realize my definition of niche was incorrect" and move on. Nor would I continue taking my comments about diesel acceptance in the overall market and applying them to the diesel pickup niche when I've said several times "excluding that niche".

 

[Envoy4Life]

He’s arguing semantics. It is niche.

Niche as an adjective’s definition (a niche market, which is what is being discussed makes its use an adjective):

1. denoting products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population.
   "other companies in this space had to adapt to being niche players"
   
   

Again, diesel powered cars account for less than 3% of total registered vehicles in America. Thats more or less a rounding error. So yes, it is a niche, and yes, the use of the word “niche” to describe it is correct.