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The Coming Pickup Truck Powertrain Dilemma
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1,256 Posts
That's crazy. I mean really, look what you have to consider these days to figure out what car/truck is "right" for you.
Looks expensive to produce and buy.
Looks expensive to produce and buy.
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1,776 Posts
what if you need heavy loads but more city/town driving. i.e. a farmer who runs in and out of town, but rarely takes a trip over 2 hours high way continuously..like stop and go btu its stop and go at stop signs, not city congestion...with a heavy load
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1,049 Posts
I think we're going to have to see the death of the cheap V8 truck over the next decade. Why would GM want to winnow away its hard-earned, precious CAFE credits on the cheap? It's going to be hard enough meeting standards as it is.
If you want a cheap truck, I think a smaller V6 is going to have to do--many of the hardest working, real work trucks are already ordered that way. V8s are currently resorting to cylinder deactivation and more just to survive, but despite that, look at what the market for them is doing anyway. If you really need more power, a diesel should do all the duties a truck exists to perform. With 2 V8 diesels, I think a lot of people may choose to go that rout (providing the ridiculous price of diesel doesn't keep its disproportionately increasing ratio with gasoline). Even a V6 diesel would be a natural direction and as trucks get smaller, a 4 cylinder should function with turbocharging.
I really don't know where the 2-mode hybrid stands, but I have to think that at least for now, it will remain a boutique model. The dual powertrains and complex electrical system plus batteries leave a lot of new, relatively untested technology to wear out in the long, hard life of a work truck. Comparatively, the diesel option would be more robust than even its gasoline counterpart due to the more sturdy block.
Then again, the X-factor in this whole thing is really ethanol. If we can start producing it efficiently for say $3/gal (probably more like $4+, but by then gas will probably be $6/gal) and do so sustainably, I can see people opting back into V8s or at least a range of very turbo'ed up mills taking advantage of the high octane numbers. Some of ethanol's greatest proponents and suppliers are located in the very same places that feature the highest density of pickups. This could get interesting...
If you want a cheap truck, I think a smaller V6 is going to have to do--many of the hardest working, real work trucks are already ordered that way. V8s are currently resorting to cylinder deactivation and more just to survive, but despite that, look at what the market for them is doing anyway. If you really need more power, a diesel should do all the duties a truck exists to perform. With 2 V8 diesels, I think a lot of people may choose to go that rout (providing the ridiculous price of diesel doesn't keep its disproportionately increasing ratio with gasoline). Even a V6 diesel would be a natural direction and as trucks get smaller, a 4 cylinder should function with turbocharging.
I really don't know where the 2-mode hybrid stands, but I have to think that at least for now, it will remain a boutique model. The dual powertrains and complex electrical system plus batteries leave a lot of new, relatively untested technology to wear out in the long, hard life of a work truck. Comparatively, the diesel option would be more robust than even its gasoline counterpart due to the more sturdy block.
Then again, the X-factor in this whole thing is really ethanol. If we can start producing it efficiently for say $3/gal (probably more like $4+, but by then gas will probably be $6/gal) and do so sustainably, I can see people opting back into V8s or at least a range of very turbo'ed up mills taking advantage of the high octane numbers. Some of ethanol's greatest proponents and suppliers are located in the very same places that feature the highest density of pickups. This could get interesting...
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2,419 Posts
Trucks over 8600 GVWR are still exempt from CAFE, so it really impacts the 1500s. Here is where the 4.5 will shine. 5.3 HP levels and more torque than the 8.1, and better mileage than the regular 5.3.
I thought that real-world 4.3 mileage wasn't significantly better than the 4.8? A diesel V-6 or powerful I-4 would be a great engine for a 1500 WT.
Especially for in-town service trucks, light construction work, and municipal vehicles. Mix in a diesel/hybrid and maybe folks will forget the Prius.
As long as it isn't priced out of the market, the 4.5 Duramax is going to be a hit.
I thought that real-world 4.3 mileage wasn't significantly better than the 4.8? A diesel V-6 or powerful I-4 would be a great engine for a 1500 WT.
Especially for in-town service trucks, light construction work, and municipal vehicles. Mix in a diesel/hybrid and maybe folks will forget the Prius.
As long as it isn't priced out of the market, the 4.5 Duramax is going to be a hit.
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10,454 Posts
Small diesel.
This going to change a lot. There are a lot of places where gas powered vehicles are not allowed due to the fire hazzard created by the spark plugs (refineries, oil rigs, seaports, etc). Energy companies are going to be using these half tons a lot for that reason because they are diesel.
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441 Posts
Don't quote me on this, but my neighbour just got a 6.6L Duramax in his 2500 Silvy and I think it was a 10 grand premium over the 6.0L gasser. I'm assuming part of that charge is for the Alison Tranny, but still, that's a lot of dough for an upgrade. I'm quoting CDN dollars btw.
I'm curious what the 4.5L Diesel will be in terms of a premium over the 5.3.
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441 Posts
Yup, $10,615 CDN over the 6.0L to be exact. I just checked it out on www.gm.ca and priced one out.
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The 2-Mode would probably satisfy the needs of the 90th-percentile non-commercial truck buyers. And I wouldn't call the technology untested. GM has had Two-Mode buses on the road for years, and I guarantee those buses have seen a more rigorous workout than alot of truck buyers could ever put on their trucks.
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The 4.5 diesel will be an interesting choice, but if the price premium is proportional to the Duramax in 3/4 and 1 ton applications why bother, especially as diesel is running about .40 cents a gallon more than gasoline right now?
I'll just stick with getting the Camaro or Challenger and finding an old pickup truck to haul loads in when i need it.
I'll just stick with getting the Camaro or Challenger and finding an old pickup truck to haul loads in when i need it.
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1,039 Posts
I wonder is GM has seriously looked into a DI 6-cyl gas engine for the trucks... Direct Injection is more fuel efficient AND produces more power, why not have a DI V6 take over the roll for the 5.3? Have the DI V6 (gas), 2-mode 5.3 V8 (gas), small diesel, Duramax?
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Its only $7,000 something here, but that price also includes the Allison Transmission which we're guessing won't be on the 4.5L. Because of that, I would say the 4.5L will be in the $3-$4k range over the 5.3L. The 6.0L is only $1k over the 5.3L.
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6,652 Posts
Not that long ago, my brother had an F150 with a straight 6 and 4 on the floor. That was a real truck, not a "lifestyle" vehicle.
Today, Ford could make an F100 (80% the size of an F150) with a direct injection 6 cylinder engine and a 6 speed manual. No premium leather seats, no DVD player for the back seat, no navigation screen or talking interface. If it could tow 6,000 lbs, it would meet the needs of 90% of truck buyers, it would cost under $25,000 and it would get 22 mpg.
Today, Ford could make an F100 (80% the size of an F150) with a direct injection 6 cylinder engine and a 6 speed manual. No premium leather seats, no DVD player for the back seat, no navigation screen or talking interface. If it could tow 6,000 lbs, it would meet the needs of 90% of truck buyers, it would cost under $25,000 and it would get 22 mpg.
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2,876 Posts
for most people's "truck needs" a 4 cylinder Ranger would work just fine and get 25 mpg in the process. i'd bet that more than half the people out there in full sized pickups don't need them for all of their capability. GM doesn't need to build a million pickups a year to satisfy the demand for actual work trucks, and in the coming years it's going to show in the marketplace. GM had better figure out how to profit on smaller, more economic vehicles, trucks included. V6s and possibly diesel 4 cylinders will have to be an option.
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2,371 Posts
The 3.6L DI that's going into the Lambdas has 290HP. I don't see why this wouldn't work in a 1500 series pick up.
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That's a point people forget about old pickups - they haul loads just like the $40K creampuff with the four doors and DVD.
Vintage pickups are a great buy compared to vintage cars too.
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