[tholland]

As it turns out, the Fisker Karma is an interesting choice of names. This could be a case of Karma right back at ya.


Quote:
You know how it goes, when there's smoke... Tesla Motors is reportedly suing Fisker Automotive for stealing inside design ideas. As rumors indicated earlier this week, Henrik Fisker apparently was hired by Tesla to style their upcoming Whitestar sedan. The styling was not to Tesla's liking, either by accident or on purpose - likely depending on who you ask -- so Fisker's designs were rejected. At that time, Tesla claims that Fisker and some associates took what they learned from Tesla and started their own project, which was unveiled recently, ironically enough, as the Karma sedan.

cont'd...

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/04...ic-car-design/

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/technology/15tesla.html?ref=automobiles

 

[CJ Thunder]

Um...ok so nothing has been finalized or shown to the public and they are suing for design? Now if he stole trade secrets fine but autoblog said sue for design. And he designed something Tesla didn't like so...I am confused...

 

[tholland]

Yeah, I'm not sure what they hope to achieve... I guess they'd like their money back for the work Fisker did, which they feel was not done in earnest, was used to gain access to project details, then the proceeds used in part to finance their own development. Still, I don't see anything about intellectual property mentioned.

 

[mgescuro]

It depends on the language of the NDA and other legal work.

Most likely, if they were working for Tesla at the time, anything they might have learned or created for Tesla -- rejected or not -- is property of Tesla. It's standard Silicon Valley boilerplate.


If Fisker worked for Tesla, and learned things about Tesla's proprietary systems... and incorporated them into something of his own creation ... then Tesla has a case.

 

[CJ Thunder]

It depends on the language of the NDA and other legal work.

Most likely, if they were working for Tesla at the time, anything they might have learned or created for Tesla -- rejected or not -- is property of Tesla. It's standard Silicon Valley boilerplate.


If Fisker worked for Tesla, and learned things about Tesla's proprietary systems... and incorporated them into something of his own creation ... then Tesla has a case.

Of course they are but how would Telsa know as Fisker hasn't publicly released any information.

 

[mgescuro]

Of course they are but how would Telsa know as Fisker hasn't publicly released any information.

That's what the lawsuit is all about.

 

[slowinthefastlane]

Most likely, if they were working for Tesla at the time, anything they might have learned or created for Tesla -- rejected or not -- is property of Tesla. It's standard Silicon Valley boilerplate.

Been there, done that. Those employment agreements are almost completely unenforceable. If Tesla's suing on the basis of one of these, then they'll probably be in for a very small settlement at best.

 

[AmericanRevv]

We can't produce a product when we said we wourld, you know three years ago. Boo hoo, boo hoo... we want to to be EVI 7 years ago.

 

[CaptainDan]

Tesla has design ideas to steal? I hadn't heard about that!

Tesla is making (are they finally making that thing yet?) a "new" car from somebody else's car, mated to somebody else's batteries, mated to somebody else's motor......and yet they are suing Fisker for stealing THEIR ideas.

You can sue anybody, over anything. Winning, on the other hand......

 

[SUPERBADD75]

Tesla has design ideas to steal? I hadn't heard about that!

Tesla is making (are they finally making that thing yet?) a "new" car from somebody else's car, mated to somebody else's batteries, mated to somebody else's motor......and yet they are suing Fisker for stealing THEIR ideas.

You can sue anybody, over anything. Winning, on the other hand......

all automakers use parts made by someone else, the extent of it varies, but they all do it. the part that belongs to Tesla is the way it's put together, and the way it all works (hybrid system, battery arrangement, etc.) and that appears to be what they're bent out of shap over. i'm sure they wouldn't argue that they're using other companies' products, but they're doing it with their permission (they aren't just buying Elises and reworking them without Lotus' knowledge or consent as it were) and not stealing their ideas and presenting them as their own. the way the car works is Tesla's design. besides, the Tesla isn't even the same body as an Elise. you can easily tell the differences in them side by side.

 

[CaptainDan]

all automakers use parts made by someone else, the extent of it varies, but they all do it. the part that belongs to Tesla is the way it's put together, and the way it all works (hybrid system, battery arrangement, etc.) and that appears to be what they're bent out of shap over. i'm sure they wouldn't argue that they're using other companies' products, but they're doing it with their permission (they aren't just buying Elises and reworking them without Lotus' knowledge or consent as it were) and not stealing their ideas and presenting them as their own. the way the car works is Tesla's design. besides, the Tesla isn't even the same body as an Elise. you can easily tell the differences in them side by side.

Yes, they are using slight modifications of somebody else's design. I just find it ironic that Tesla would be suing somebody else for doing what their basic business model is.

But, legally, if Tesla contracted Fisker to design them something, then Tesla owns the result, whether they ultimately rejected it or not.

But it all really hinges on just how similar this "new" Fisker design might be. Was the original Camaro an illegal infringement on the Mustang because they were "similar"? How similar is similar enough?

 

[SUPERBADD75]

Yes, they are using slight modifications of somebody else's design. I just find it ironic that Tesla would be suing somebody else for doing what their basic business model is.

But, legally, if Tesla contracted Fisker to design them something, then Tesla owns the result, whether they ultimately rejected it or not.

But it all really hinges on just how similar this "new" Fisker design might be. Was the original Camaro an illegal infringement on the Mustang because they were "similar"? How similar is similar enough?

that's a good point. i'd think they'd have to be identical to make a case considering the myriad "similar" competing products out there, and not just in the automotive arena. i mean, Kroger sells their version of Honey Comb cereal right next to the real thing, and just looking at them, i defy you to tell me the difference.

 

[CJ Thunder]

That's what the lawsuit is all about.

See Fisker has ALOT of pictures on their website...looks good.