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What Should Happen to Suburban?

  • Continue it on the C3XX Platfrom (successor to GMT-900)

    Votes: 295 76.4%
  • Move it to an Extended Lambda

    Votes: 41 10.6%
  • Kill it. It should die a BOF SUV.

    Votes: 46 11.9%
  • Slap the Suburban name on something else.

    Votes: 4 1.0%

Suburban: What Should Be It's Fate?

8K views 79 replies 44 participants last post by  member12 
#1 ·
Suburban: What Should Be It's Fate?

Newbie GMI Staff Member ChevyRules posted a commentary piece discussing his thoughts on what should happen to GM's crowned full-sized SUV's. His big delimma was the Suburban, so what do you think should happen to it?

ChevyRule's Commentary--Discuss

Rumored Future of GM Full Sizers
 
#2 ·
GM needs a real BOF SUV. If they want to modify the Tahoe into a Lambda-like vehicle, go ahead. But keep the Suburban real. The Suburban (particularly in 2500 form) has enough cargo carrying capability for a family to safely tow a large boat of fairly large travel trailer. People are buying up used Excursions for this very purpose. At some point those used vehicles are going to get run into the ground.......plus some people want a new truck dammit! ;)
 
#5 ·
you said it my mom has a 02 LS with 4WD and towing package. It's a pig on gas but nothing beats it in winter driving and in towing situations. same story with it's ability to swallow huge volumes of cargo
 
#7 · (Edited)
The Suburban's been around over 70 years, through thick and thin. Born while the country was climbing out of the depths of the Depression, it survived a World War, the "muscle" era, two oil crises, implementation of CAFE and the onslaught of imports... and survived unscathed.

While the "trendy SUV" customer has inflated Suburban sales figures far above its traditional 30k or so sales per annum, the hardcore buyers will always be there. The Alaskan family of twelve who live at the end of a three-mile-long gravel road. The work crew in the stripped-out, rubber-floored model. The Airstream RV owner. The Wildlife & Fisheries officer.

The Tahoe will come and go, and is likely to go sooner than later. Yukon sales will evaporate. Escalade will move to Lambda. It's unlikely Nissan and Toyota will replace the Armada and Sequoia, respectively, and the Expedition probably won't live to see the end of the decade. But amidst all this, the Suburban will remain, albeit in lower numbers, faithfully there performing the same perfunctory role it has for years.

Its days as a popular family car may be over, but the Suburban needs to live in the same successful formula it's lived for over half a century.
 
#9 ·
Unfortunately, nowadays, nothing is sacred at GM (although the Camaro did make it back on a RWD chassis). There has to be guaranteed sales for them to continue with another generation. Fortunately, with the Suburban there are those sales there with those who live and work in the wide, open spaces of this country. I see it every time I drive to and from Texas Tech and the Metroplex. If you are making a living somewhere on HW114 you have to have a Suburban or its pickup equivalent to survive. Remember there was no such thing as a Tahoe 20 years ago, but there was a Suburban and it can be that way once again.
 
#10 ·
Who would have thought of building less of them? :rolleyes:
 
#13 ·
Killing the Suburban would be very dumb, there is so many people that love it and use it's capabilities to the fullest. The best thing to do would be keeping it on the BOF CX33 platform, or at the worst, keeping it's size intact on a (very) extended Lambda platform. Many people own them for the space it offers with a large family as well. The Suburban has lasted through worse like others have said, and it's still can be a moneymaker if done right.
 
#14 ·
As I stated in the aforementioned article, the Pickups and long SUV's need to remain BOF on the C3XX platform.

Even though the general public may not be buying them in droves ever again, we all know someone with 6 kids, or someone who owns a larger boat/ship, or who owns a large trailer., etc. You cannot expect someone who has lots of toys to change their lifestyle because the company they have purchased products from before "changes their portfolio." If GM were to stop building the Suburban, I know at least a few folks who would go to Ford or Dodge the next time. A Traverse, let alone something like the G8 ST, simply cannot handle a family of 6 with a large trailer.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I think the Suburban should move to a monocoque design. People wrongly think that a BOF is somehow stronger or more durable than a monocoque structure, which is simply not true. Pound for pound a monocoque will always be stronger when using a passenger vehicle format. Only with a non crew cab pickup bed is a monocoque not stronger, and that is because of the poor structural rigidity of an open bed tub.




;)
 
#17 ·
I think the Suburban should move to a monocoque design. People wrongly think that a BOF is somehow stronger or more durable than a monocoque structure, which is simply not true. Pound for pound a monocoque will always be stronger when using a passenger vehicle format. Only with a non crew cab pickup bed is a monocoque not stronger, and that is because of the poor structural rigidity of an open bed tub.




;)
Whilst that is true, I believe the unique benefits of BOF fit this scenario quite well. That is, the body can be replaced through lower cost and therefore extend the life of the chassis.

As many others have said, it is unlikely to continue as a family transport and will most likely be used that wich was originally intended.

So reduced numbers = less cash to attribute to future development.

Slapping a new top on every 3 years for the next 6-8, with updated engines and occasional extra bells or whistles, should become the Suburbans fate. If not for the singular benefit of cost savings, then for maintaining the perception of BOF superiority. Whilst monocoque may well be as good, try convincing those that have been driving Suburbans for the last 25 years and have defended their BOF over more modern equivalents. ;)

Keep the locals happy and this line can continue with minimal investment (obviously = better return).
 
#19 ·
a large, BOF, V8 powered, primarily RWD SUV?
 
#22 ·
Including myself, there are 7 members in my family. I'm on my second Burb now. If Chevy kills the burb, I will be looking at the extended Expedition. That mono-thing looks alright, but would it have the same cargo as a BOF Burb? I don't really use it for towing, but you try going on a road trip to Arizona or Oregon from Wyoming with 5 kids and needing all that space for their stuff.
 
#24 ·
Below is the monocoque Suburban I chopped from the Holden (Pontiac G8) V8 Sportwagon, which is shown below to scale. The internal size would be as much or more than a BOF Suburban because you gain a number of inches depth that the frame rails take up. As you can see by where the second row seats are there would be a lot of cargo room behind them.



I think sometimes "rigidity" sometimes gets confused with "strength". Sure, my 2004 unibody Acura MDX seemed more solid than my BOF Nissan Armada. But the fact is, the hitch weight rating for the Acura was 450 lbs, and my Nissan is rated for 910 lbs. I know that is just one indicator of strength, but there's more, like GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) which is the weight of the vehicle plus the maximum weight inside allowed.

Again the MDX structure (like the copycat Lambdas and others - Hyundai, Mazda, Toyota, Ford, Subaru, Volvo etc) is stiff torsionally but that doesn't mean it has the strength to tow, haul, or carry what a BOF based vehicle will do. I mean this is a can of worms too, because not all unibody platforms or frames are created equal in terms of materials or design.
The main reason a BOF vehicle often has a higher towing rating is only because it's easy to attach a tow bar mounting set-up from the rear of the frame rails. Because most passenger cars don't get used to tow much the manufacturers don't bother to extend the strength of a monocoque much rearward of the rear suspension pickup points, so to attach a tow bar means there may be no real strong point to attach to. But in a monocoque designed from the outset to tow high loads and using high strength steel, this would not be a problem at all.


;)
 
#26 ·
Huge issue with monocoque construction versus body on frame: COST.

There is no reason why a Suburban should be anything more than a Silverado that seats 8. Period. Share everything from the B-pillar forward.

Why bother engineering a whole new structure? Suburban buyers either won't care that's its a Silverado, or they PREFER that it's a Silverado. Simplify the truck, drop the price, and it will continue to sell to the same happy niche customers that it has for decades.
 
#27 ·
Move it to C3XX, whatever that is.
Suburban's been around for about 75 years. Why kill it?

There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with Suburban itself.
The problem is that GM put itself into a predicament where they were nearly 100% supported by Suburban and its brethren.
 
#31 ·
Send it to the C3 platform. As gas prices keep going down ($2.99(!) in my area), more and more people will start buying large SUVs again.
 
#34 ·
Oh, and rex: the reason we have so many fwds is because we only make a few cars here. It isn't our fault that everyone else stopped making RWD, so we couldn't buy anymore. If Nissan started importing the Skyline here, it would go off the charts. The 200SX when released in Australia, went gang busters. We are victims of model decisions made by external markets. That isn't to say that FWD doesn't have its place, but it shouldn't have monopoly either.
 
#46 ·
Are you meaning Malibu Wagon? I agree with you, I see a market for that? I suggested to a GM Executive about 3 yrs ago, to give Chevy a Lucerne, call it the Caprice, and make a wagon out of it. I think it would sell. Some people want to drive a car, but want the utitlity of a crossover/SUV/mini van. A Malibu wagon, Hybrid, I think thats a winner? But what do I know?
 
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