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Pretty long, but here are some excerpts:


By C. Douglas Golden, The Western Journal May 17, 2022 at 12:20pm

Remember the complaints about the feasibility of electric vehicles, particularly in terms of limited range? Well, guess what, you climate-denier: You can’t keep hiding behind that excuse!

See, now that automakers are fitting bigger batteries into cars, that’ll dramatically increase how far you can go between charges. And with new, fast-charging stations being built with government money, you can easily get anywhere you want to go in a vehicle that doesn’t emit anything from its tailpipe.

You just may be emitting particulate matter into the environment at a much higher rate than you would in a gas-powered car, according to a new study.

And then there’s the environmental damage caused by mining the minerals needed to build EV components. Or the fact that China controls most of the supply-chain access to said minerals. Or that EVs are considerably more expensive than gas-powered vehicles.

Pick your poison. Heaven knows there are plenty of them. We’ve found a new one in electric vehicles. It’s time the progressive left at least admits the truth: There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Furthermore, they found that adding half a metric ton (1,100 pounds) “of battery weight can result in tire emissions that are almost 400 more times greater than real-world tailpipe emissions, everything else being equal.”

That’s a daunting issue for carmakers, considering that electric vehicles already have a tendency to be heavier than gas vehicles because of the weight of their batteries, and the fact that buyers want greater range — meaning bigger battery packs. Weights of batteries vary among electric vehicles, but they average is about 1,000 pounds, according to information on BatteryStory.com.

According to a CNN report, the battery-powered Ford F-150 Lightning weighs 1,600 pounds more than a regular F-150 truck. The Volvo XC40 Recharge packs an extra 1,000 pounds of weight when compared to a Volvo XC40 with an internal-combustion engine.

There is a caveat to this: “An important difference between tire and tailpipe particle emissions is that most of the former is understood to go straight to soil and water, whereas most of the latter is suspended in air for a period, and therefore negatively affects air quality,” Emissions Analytics noted.

Related:
City Halts Electric Bus Program After Second Packed Transport Bursts Into Flames
However, 11 percent of tire particulate emissions is smaller than 2.5 microns in diameter, which is “the common metric for fine particle dust,” which may become airborne.

Any way you cut it, though, it’s pollution going into the air, the water, or the soil that’s coming from electric vehicles. And it’s worse than tires on cars with lighter, gas-powered engines.


Enjoy your egg whites. 1:42
 
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See, now that automakers are fitting bigger batteries into cars, that’ll dramatically increase how far you can go between charges. And with new, fast-charging stations being built with government money, you can easily get anywhere you want to go in a vehicle that doesn’t emit anything from its tailpipe.
Yeah right. That part sounds like some sort of paid gov't shill, while the rest is almost playing both sides of the fence. Yeah. and I do believe these EV's are not as eco-friendly as they say right along with the other things he brings up like wear and tear on the roads, the mining thing, etc., etc.
 

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Yeah right. That part sounds like some sort of paid gov't shill, while the rest is almost playing both sides of the fence. Yeah. and I do believe these EV's are not as eco-friendly as they say right along with the other things he brings up like wear and tear on the roads, the mining thing, etc., etc.
I don't think BEV is a godsend, but I do think one's charged with nuclear or renewables are where the real difference lies.

I've also not read anything on this - just my own thoughts - but to me, mining pollution is localized as long as the toxic waste isn't dumped into the ocean or rivers vs. ICE emissions that goes straight into the air that everyone breathes. And I'd think, due to efficiencies, electric generated from a gas/coal power plant will have more effective emission scrubbers and the turbines run at peak efficiency - putting out less emissions for the electric generated vs. an ICE engine that, more often that not, is not working at peak efficiency.

I'm not clear on the point of articles such as this. The ship has already sailed - does the author think VW, GM, Ford, etc. are going to read the article and go "oh, snap, we messed up, we'd better stop with this conversion to BEV"?

And I assume the author is against V8's and twin turbo V6's as they are heavier and wear out the tires faster? I assume also against sports cars due to the soft compounds that wear out fast.
 

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I just read an article about the energy shortages in California because of increased demand and an inadequate grid. A guy from one of the power companies in California explained that charging an EV is about the equivalent of running two additional home air conditioning units when it comes to power draw on the grid. He said the current grid can't hold up to current demand much less the increasing demand in the near future. But he did say it's a problem that can be solved.

The first solution is to offer consumers discounts for waiting to charge their cars until 10:00pm or later when power consumption is much lower, similar to what they did for cell phones in the past. Then he estimated it would be about $6,000 per EV sold in California to actually upgrade the power storage infrastructure to actually handle the demand anytime. He also talked about increasing energy production in California via more coal, natural gas, nuclear, and renewable sources but stated the current political climate in California might make it difficult.

To me, it seems like this is the problem we should solve BEFORE encouraging people to replace their ICE cars with EV's.
 

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Better shake my fist at the guys participating in the burnout contest at the car show.
Or at a cloud.

I'm doing my part... I do not own any cars that can chirp the tires!
 
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You have to really torture the numbers to get them to say what you want them to.

Buy EV specific tires meant for heavier EVs with more torque.

The vast majority of particulate matter pollution from tires comes from Semis. In part because many Semi owners won't change tires until they explode. They spew heavy particulate matter as they wear down past recommended service life.

But I am sure coal rollers are very concerned about particulate pollution.

Anti EV advocates like looking at pollution cause my mining EV minerals but not rare earth/precious metals in catalytic converters and oil extraction, refinement, and transportation to market.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
This study was about gas vs. electric versions of various vehicles. I don't believe semi trucks were mentioned. I'll give the author a call and tell him what he missed.
 

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You have to really torture the numbers to get them to say what you want them to.

Buy EV specific tires meant for heavier EVs with more torque.

The vast majority of particulate matter pollution from tires comes from Semis. In part because many Semi owners won't change tires until they explode. They spew heavy particulate matter as they wear down past recommended service life.

But I am sure coal rollers are very concerned about particulate pollution.

Anti EV advocates like looking at pollution cause my mining EV minerals but not rare earth/precious metals in catalytic converters and oil extraction, refinement, and transportation to market.
We be Damned whether we have one or th'other I see ;) :rolleyes: 🤪
 

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Pretty long, but here are some excerpts:


By C. Douglas Golden, The Western Journal May 17, 2022 at 12:20pm

Remember the complaints about the feasibility of electric vehicles, particularly in terms of limited range? Well, guess what, you climate-denier: You can’t keep hiding behind that excuse!

See, now that automakers are fitting bigger batteries into cars, that’ll dramatically increase how far you can go between charges. And with new, fast-charging stations being built with government money, you can easily get anywhere you want to go in a vehicle that doesn’t emit anything from its tailpipe.

You just may be emitting particulate matter into the environment at a much higher rate than you would in a gas-powered car, according to a new study.

And then there’s the environmental damage caused by mining the minerals needed to build EV components. Or the fact that China controls most of the supply-chain access to said minerals. Or that EVs are considerably more expensive than gas-powered vehicles.

Pick your poison. Heaven knows there are plenty of them. We’ve found a new one in electric vehicles. It’s time the progressive left at least admits the truth: There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Furthermore, they found that adding half a metric ton (1,100 pounds) “of battery weight can result in tire emissions that are almost 400 more times greater than real-world tailpipe emissions, everything else being equal.”

That’s a daunting issue for carmakers, considering that electric vehicles already have a tendency to be heavier than gas vehicles because of the weight of their batteries, and the fact that buyers want greater range — meaning bigger battery packs. Weights of batteries vary among electric vehicles, but they average is about 1,000 pounds, according to information on BatteryStory.com.

According to a CNN report, the battery-powered Ford F-150 Lightning weighs 1,600 pounds more than a regular F-150 truck. The Volvo XC40 Recharge packs an extra 1,000 pounds of weight when compared to a Volvo XC40 with an internal-combustion engine.

There is a caveat to this: “An important difference between tire and tailpipe particle emissions is that most of the former is understood to go straight to soil and water, whereas most of the latter is suspended in air for a period, and therefore negatively affects air quality,” Emissions Analytics noted.

Related:
City Halts Electric Bus Program After Second Packed Transport Bursts Into Flames
However, 11 percent of tire particulate emissions is smaller than 2.5 microns in diameter, which is “the common metric for fine particle dust,” which may become airborne.

Any way you cut it, though, it’s pollution going into the air, the water, or the soil that’s coming from electric vehicles. And it’s worse than tires on cars with lighter, gas-powered engines.


Enjoy your egg whites. 1:42
Agree 100 percent more and more of this will come out. If we want to be good to the environment we should all take up walking.
 
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Ignoring this new found "rubber pollution" for now.

Sure, EVs don't DIRECTLY pollute from burning any fuel, but there is a mostly ignored "back story", depending on how you generated that electricity in the first place. That electricity didn't magically appear in your battery.

Well guess what? Gasoline has a mostly ignored back story too. That gasoline didn't magically appear in your tank with no environmental impact either.
 

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I knew it!!!! Notice they didn't even mention the ships that occasionally run aground and dump all those dirty electrons into the ocean. I'll stick with my LS powered cars for the win, thank you!
 

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Notice they didn't even mention the ships that occasionally run aground and dump all those dirty electrons into the ocean.
Dawn doesn't work on a bird that gets creamed by a wind turbine.
So better the slick than the blade!!
 

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That's also a LOT of additional weight on the existing roadbeds. We need to have solid-state batteries where the weight can come back down closer to current vehicle weight.
 

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The key in this discussion is the limitations of battery technology, their ability to store enough charge adds weight and cost as well as their present inability to recharge as quickly as an ICE refuels at a gas station all impact on the positive attributes of electrification but, add a smaller battery pack to more hybrids and you see real reductions in fuel consumption without putting a burden on the power grid.

So why not have another ten or more years pushing hybrids to improve stop/go gas mileage why battery manufacturers perfect their battery technology. There are so many benefits possibilities with just using what we already have…..
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ignoring this new found "rubber pollution" for now.

Sure, EVs don't DIRECTLY pollute from burning any fuel, but there is a mostly ignored "back story", depending on how you generated that electricity in the first place. That electricity didn't magically appear in your battery.

Well guess what? Gasoline has a mostly ignored back story too. That gasoline didn't magically appear in your tank with no environmental impact either.
Well, duh, Dr. Obvious!

We all know that gasoline comes from big tanker trucks that fill the tanks at the gas station. Then, an additional step, we have to stop, get out, pop the fuel cap, whomp on the pump thingie, grab the germ infested fuel nozzle, stick it in the filler thingie, and set it and forget it! So yeah, there's a LOT of environmental impact. Especially if you eat the pizza and drink the liquid puke they sell inside at the Stop-And-Rob store.
 
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Well, duh, Dr. Obvious!

We all know that gasoline comes from big tanker trucks that fill the tanks at the gas station. Then, an additional step, we have to stop, get out, pop the fuel cap, whomp on the pump thingie, grab the germ infested fuel nozzle, stick it in the filler thingie, and set it and forget it! So yeah, there's a LOT of environmental impact. Especially if you eat the pizza and drink the liquid puke they sell inside at the Stop-And-Rob store.
Most of the environmental impact "back story" comes way before the tanker truck.
 

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I think it’s good that people ask questions about where our resources and technology comes from and how much pollution is made along the way. Of course, there’s always room for improvement but at least the discussion continues about ethical and sustainable resources, mining and refining processes. Oil is a very efficient energy supply media and for batteries to match they’d have to be thirty or for times more energy dense so there’s still a long way to go. I hope I live long enough to see battery energy density improves to the point where batteries are a quarter of the size of today and have charge rates that sound impossible today. Until then it up to everyone to pick the level of technology that suits their need, be that stick with ICE or some form of hybrid or PHEV or maybe at least one BEV in a multi car family.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Most of the environmental impact "back story" comes way before the tanker truck.
Methinks you miss the point, Captain. Gas comes from tanker trucks. I've seen them at gas stations. If that's not proof I don't know what is. 🦄
 
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