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Discussion Starter #1
I think GM really needs two of these cars, I personally dont care to much for the style or anything, but dodge is the only company out their with one and have the entire market to themselves. GM need a pontiac/chevy version ASAP. SS cavalier and GXP sunfire...turboed with close numbers to the SRT....that would be a good move for GM I think.
 

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Did you ever think that there's only 1 manufacturer with a car in this class, because the class itself isn't really necessary?

Don't expect any kind of performance Sunfire/Cavaliers anytime soon.
They will be dead soon. The replacements (Cobalt/Pursuit) may or may not have a performance model.
 

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In my opinion, the only real reason Dodge needs that car is to build the Viper. Since the EPA requires total fuel efficiency numbers for manufacturers the Viper and the Neon balance each other out. I think the requirements for a company's average fuel efficiency are 21 mpg for light duty vehicles (under 6k pounds? I think) and 23 mpg for passenger cars.

-KDR CHEVELLEDUDE
 

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Discussion Starter #4
alright that covers the reasons why dodge is building it, but I still think GM needs some for either the replacments or the current models. Dodge is having to build more then they thought they would since people are buying them up. I mean what does GM have to loose? Obviouslly there is a market for it, and alot of people wanting them wont buy them because they are a neon, but a sunfire looks sportier and they might buy that. What does gm have to loose?
 

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Originally posted by Nocturn_Bird@Dec 15 2003, 05:23 AM
I think GM really needs two of these cars, I personally dont care to much for the style or anything, but dodge is the only company out their with one and have the entire market to themselves. GM need a pontiac/chevy version ASAP. SS cavalier and GXP sunfire...turboed with close numbers to the SRT....that would be a good move for GM I think.
You mean to tell me that GM should make like a small little FWD 4cyl car with like a power adder? Your telling me that GM needs one?

I think your question has been answerd. I bring you the Ion Redline.



Saturn Ion Red Line
2003 New York International Auto Show
April 2003
 

Saturn currently has little to no presence in the sport-compact scene with the ho-hum Ion sedan and coupe. GM's plastic brand wants to change that and, accordingly, is launching the new Ion Red Line coupe. Powered by a 2.0-liter supercharged and intercooled 200-horsepower (estimated) version of the Ecotec four-cylinder engine, the Ion Red Line comes equipped with a close-ratio, short-throw five-speed manual transmission that should enable the coupe to hit 60 mph in around 7.0 seconds. Performance upgrades are numerous and include larger equal-length halfshafts; a high-flow, performance-tuned exhaust and induction system; four-wheel disc brakes with ABS; performance-tuned springs, shocks, bushings, and stabilizer bars; 17 x 7 inch, five-spoke forged alloy wheels shod with Continental 215/45R17 W-rated tires; and a 10-mm lower ride height. The exterior comes with racy front and rear fascias, rocker moldings, and several rear-wing choices. Production is scheduled to begin in early 2004.
and you said 2 models? How about a 250 hp Vue Redline?


happy?
 

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Originally posted by KDR CHEVELLEDUDE@Dec 15 2003, 02:36 AM
In my opinion, the only real reason Dodge needs that car is to build the Viper. Since the EPA requires total fuel efficiency numbers for manufacturers the Viper and the Neon balance each other out. I think the requirements for a company's average fuel efficiency are 21 mpg for light duty vehicles (under 6k pounds? I think) and 23 mpg for passenger cars.

-KDR CHEVELLEDUDE
CAFE requirements are actually 20.7 mpg for light trucks (under 8500lbs GVWR) and 27.5 mpg for passenger cars. Don't bother averaging from posted city or highway figures because a different formula is used.
 

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Originally posted by bigals87z28@Dec 15 2003, 05:13 AM


I think your question has been answerd. I bring you the Ion Redline.

The Red line is not even close to competing with the SRT4. 0-60 in 7 sec? It needs to do a lot better than that to match the Neon.
 

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Originally posted by Hudson@Dec 15 2003, 08:57 PM
Has anyone actually seen a production road test of the Ion Red Line to make the timing comparison?
six flat, and 15 in the 1/4 mile. not bad, very respectable, but not what i was hoping for. still, it's the closest thing to the SRT4 for the money.
 

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Originally posted by chev454ls+Dec 15 2003, 02:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (chev454ls @ Dec 15 2003, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-bigals87z28@Dec 15 2003, 05:13 AM


I think your question has been answerd.  I bring you the Ion Redline.

The Red line is not even close to competing with the SRT4. 0-60 in 7 sec? It needs to do a lot better than that to match the Neon. [/b][/quote]
The Silverado SS isn't even close to its competition either <_<
 

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Originally posted by chev454ls+Dec 15 2003, 07:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (chev454ls @ Dec 15 2003, 07:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-bigals87z28@Dec 15 2003, 05:13 AM


I think your question has been answerd.  I bring you the Ion Redline.

The Red line is not even close to competing with the SRT4. 0-60 in 7 sec? It needs to do a lot better than that to match the Neon. [/b][/quote]
the RedLine VUE does 0-60 in seven seconds. the VUE is an SUV.

the RedLine ION does 0-60 in 6 seconds. is that easier for you to comprehend?
 

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And the Ion is also supercharged. Change the pulley size, PCM upgrade, injectors, exhaust, and improved intercooler and that thing could push 300. Its all about modability. What makes the SRT4 so popular is that its turbo charged and a few tweeks and its the baddest thing dodge has made since the viper.
 

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You wouldn't be able to make 300hp with those few changes; itd take more, like a better blower. Turbos you can tweak the boost easily, but a pulley and chip (etc) isn't worth an extra hundred hp
 

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Discussion Starter #16
TAfreak my little troll your post was completly useless

the Ion is a step in the right direction, but the VUE is a joke. No one looking for a SRT4 is going to buy a damn SUV. 15's is good, but it needs to be 14's, and not a saturn. Saturns just don't have the reputation needed to produce a sports car.

Take the sunfire, turbo it, give it some clean looking accesories...dual exhaust, maybe a larger spoiler, some decent handling, give it 250 HP and price it under 20K and youl have an SRT4 eater. Take away some chrome goodies, put it on a cavalier badge it an SS and sell it for 1K less.

I'm thinking that would be the best thing for GM to do if they are trying to capture the sport compact crowd. I don't know where the automakers got the idea that the young wanted hot supped up SUV's. Most of the people I know want cars to modify and race, not SUV's to add superchargers to.
 

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Originally posted by Nocturn_Bird@Dec 16 2003, 09:34 PM
TAfreak my little troll your post was completly useless

the Ion is a step in the right direction, but the VUE is a joke. No one looking for a SRT4 is going to buy a damn SUV. 15's is good, but it needs to be 14's, and not a saturn. Saturns just don't have the reputation needed to produce a sports car.

Take the sunfire, turbo it, give it some clean looking accesories...dual exhaust, maybe a larger spoiler, some decent handling, give it 250 HP and price it under 20K and youl have an SRT4 eater. Take away some chrome goodies, put it on a cavalier badge it an SS and sell it for 1K less.

I'm thinking that would be the best thing for GM to do if they are trying to capture the sport compact crowd. I don't know where the automakers got the idea that the young wanted hot supped up SUV's. Most of the people I know want cars to modify and race, not SUV's to add superchargers to.
mentioing the VUE in comparison to the SRT4 is stupid. don't ever do it again. i dont' care who says it :D

now for the ION. well, the ION RL is GM's little testbed for the Delta, especially in terms of performance. the RL uses suspension components from the VUE, grand am [either the GA or GP] and the transmission from the 9³. and why shoudln't saturn have a performance vehicle?

the pursuit is getting a performance version, and so is the cobalt. from what i've heard, the pontiac will get a blower, making 180HP, the saturn gets 205HP with a blower as well, and the cobalt gets the turbo, with output more in line with the SRT4.

BTW, try and read the post thoroughly. the ION RL is supercharged, the VUE is NA. oh yeah, it's using the oddyssey sourced V6, but with a better exhaust system, it makes 10 horsepower more. fast SUVs = cool in my books. a fast saturn SUV = even better.
 

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Yeah, SUVs can be cool. FAST SUVs are F'kn cool! I wish the Vue were able run with that Forester XT(which I would rather have than the WRX). It is still quick but comparing it to the SRT-4 is pretty silly.

And it won't be long before we see "kits" for GM cars to boost boosted performance. They know the Ecotec and know it will handle 300HP. Say hello to the FWD pony wars.

TAF, what's up man? Why are you always chiming in to be a arse? Lighten up, guy, we are mostly GM people here. Does anyone have an easy sister or mom to hook him up with? I think he needs some punanny.(I assume you likes the punanny, right?) :D
 

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Originally posted by silvia-sr20det@Dec 16 2003, 05:01 PM
You wouldn't be able to make 300hp with those few changes; itd take more, like a better blower. Turbos you can tweak the boost easily, but a pulley and chip (etc) isn't worth an extra hundred hp
... Well, guessing that the motor is pushing a little bit more then 200hp, probably more like 220ish easily. How does a 200hp ion run 15's when a 220hp neon runs 13's? Ok, the neon really pushes near 230ish, but I think the ion is pushing more then 200 hp. With a few tweeks, 300 hp could be easy to do. swapping the blower is a good idea, and would make over 100 more hp. I think saturn is trying really hard to get into the asian car market with cars like the Ion, and Vue. Making cars that appeal to a certain part of asian car market, the sport compact guys, and making powerful, and upgradeable cars. The Ecotec is a great motor and I think its just another great motor done by GM. I hope that the VVT ecotecs are coming soon. Gm has proven the ecotec will be a great motor and great for moddability. GM's next "350".
 

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Originally posted by bigals87z28+Dec 17 2003, 05:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bigals87z28 @ Dec 17 2003, 05:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-silvia-sr20det@Dec 16 2003, 05:01 PM
You wouldn't be able to make 300hp with those few changes; itd take more, like a better blower. Turbos you can tweak the boost easily, but a pulley and chip (etc) isn't worth an extra hundred hp
... Well, guessing that the motor is pushing a little bit more then 200hp, probably more like 220ish easily. How does a 200hp ion run 15's when a 220hp neon runs 13's? Ok, the neon really pushes near 230ish, but I think the ion is pushing more then 200 hp. With a few tweeks, 300 hp could be easy to do. swapping the blower is a good idea, and would make over 100 more hp. I think saturn is trying really hard to get into the asian car market with cars like the Ion, and Vue. Making cars that appeal to a certain part of asian car market, the sport compact guys, and making powerful, and upgradeable cars. The Ecotec is a great motor and I think its just another great motor done by GM. I hope that the VVT ecotecs are coming soon. Gm has proven the ecotec will be a great motor and great for moddability. GM's next "350". [/b][/quote]
:wub:
 
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