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WOW! Did they change the taillights???
 

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Originally posted by johnd89@May 10 2004, 07:18 PM
"...I have no ideea what the exact numbers are for the production of the bmw m3 vs m5, but I'd bet the later sells in much smaller numbers (maybe 10 to 1)? the same would sell an sts-v!"
For sales mavens like me...

USA sales for BMW's M3 and M5 are as follows:

2003
M3 4,687
M5 1,447

2002
M3 5,625
M5 1,666

So, the sales ratio is more like 3-4:1 [obviously] in favor of the 3.
 

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Originally posted by tgagneguam+May 10 2004, 05:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tgagneguam @ May 10 2004, 05:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-johnd89@May 10 2004, 07:18 PM
"...I have no ideea what the exact numbers are for the production of the bmw m3 vs m5, but I'd bet the later sells in much smaller numbers (maybe 10 to 1)? the same would sell an sts-v!"
For sales mavens like me...

USA sales for BMW's M3 and M5 are as follows:

2003
M3 4,687
M5 1,447

2002
M3 5,625
M5 1,666

So, the sales ratio is more like 3-4:1 [obviously] in favor of the 3. [/b][/quote]
Could you give us the sames numbers of the C-Class AMG/E-Class AMG and S4/RS6 too...thanks!
 

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Vette owners will complain but it will not be a big problem for them IMO, as it was said earlier, these are COMPLETELY different cars. Dedicated sports car vs. luxury sport sedan. I could definately see the CTS-v with a 500HP V-8 in it! I'd like to see the STS-v with a V-10/12. You just have to keep up with the competition.
 

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I think the "Vette people" need to get off their ****** high horse and quit ruining things for everyone else.

That stupid assed corporate edict has killed more than a few bad assed performance cars and I'm sick and tired of it.

And like others said... Caddy kinda outclasses Chevy by a long ways, and I don't think people shopping for an M3/M5 are going to have a vette in mind. :rolleyes:
 

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altough the ratio m3/m5 is much smaller than what I thought (based on how many I see on the roads), the m5 sales are STILL insignificant.
I really don't think there is a need for a 500hp sts, but a 500hp cts is another story:
it's the main ideea of muscle car or hotroding- stuff a huge engine in a small car!

also, if a cts is the size of a bmw 5, is it safe to assume that the sts is more or less the size of the bmw 7? now, with the exception of few alpina prepared series 7 in the past, it never existed a m7!
as a conclusion, the size of the cts is as big as you want to have in this exotic super-sport sedan class.
 

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Too add to R.E Sanchez post, I found this link on another GM Forum site about the CTS-V Plus & STS-V

http://www.channel4.com/4car/gallery/spy-s...sts-v-plus.html

Here is a small excerpt from Channel4.com

"These shots show muscled-up Plus versions of the mid-size CTS-V and full-size STS-V saloons testing on the Nurburgring. The current CTS-V, on sale in America, already delivers 400bhp from its V8, but GM has engineered the Plus's V8 to put out nearly 500bhp. Reports suggest the STS-V Plus could develop as much as 700bhp from its tuned version of the Corvette's 6.0-litre V8. 0-60mph shouldn't take much longer than five seconds, for either car."

:drevil:
 

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Originally posted by TaHoE@May 10 2004, 11:47 PM
Could you give us the sames numbers of the C-Class AMG/E-Class AMG and S4/RS6 too...thanks!
I would imagine that the breakdown would be similar to comparable BMW vehicles. In 2003, AMG's totalled about 11,005 units in the USA, which was a 68.9% increase over 2002. I haven't been able to find the specifics with respect to C-class AMG's, et cetera.

I have been completely unsuccessful with S4/RS6 sales.

Of course, if others can find the numbers, I'd be interested.

Incidentally, johnd89, I wasn't trying to be a P.I.T.A. when I quoted the M sales. They do illustrate your point: M sales are relatively minute.
 

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Originally posted by KnightHawk@May 11 2004, 01:15 AM
Too add to R.E Sanchez post, I found this link on another GM Forum site about the CTS-V Plus & STS-V

http://www.channel4.com/4car/gallery/spy-s...sts-v-plus.html

Here is a small excerpt from Channel4.com

"These shots show muscled-up Plus versions of the mid-size CTS-V and full-size STS-V saloons testing on the Nurburgring. The current CTS-V, on sale in America, already delivers 400bhp from its V8, but GM has engineered the Plus's V8 to put out nearly 500bhp. Reports suggest the STS-V Plus could develop as much as 700bhp from its tuned version of the Corvette's 6.0-litre V8. 0-60mph shouldn't take much longer than five seconds, for either car."

:drevil:
:eek: WOW...great info. Thanks again NightHawk, much appreciated. The only thing I didn't like hearing was the use of a OHV engine in the STS-V plus, or any model STS for that matter. I think while it's German/Japanese competitors use such technology based engines, Cadillac should do the same. Maybe they should use the Northstar based V10 they've been tooling around with.

I'm sure the engine bay in the new STS can at least handle the V10 (or maybe it's more hoping on my part). Either way, lots could change before this actually becomes reality. But I think it's great news reguarding the CTS!... :D
 

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I love it. The CTS is roughly the size of the M5, so the V is the best car to challenge the BMW. It will simply raise the bar for the tuned STS. Save the V-12 Northstar for the STS-V! If not, the C5-R block is still looking for a home on the highway. With cylinder deactivation, it should be considered a long-shot for Cadillac use.
 

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Originally posted by KnightHawk@May 10 2004, 08:15 PM
Too add to R.E Sanchez post, I found this link on another GM Forum site about the CTS-V Plus & STS-V

http://www.channel4.com/4car/gallery/spy-s...sts-v-plus.html

Here is a small excerpt from Channel4.com

"These shots show muscled-up Plus versions of the mid-size CTS-V and full-size STS-V saloons testing on the Nurburgring. The current CTS-V, on sale in America, already delivers 400bhp from its V8, but GM has engineered the Plus's V8 to put out nearly 500bhp. Reports suggest the STS-V Plus could develop as much as 700bhp from its tuned version of the Corvette's 6.0-litre V8. 0-60mph shouldn't take much longer than five seconds, for either car."

:drevil:
That information sounds both outdated and brand new in the same article. STS shots are old. CTS shots are new. CTS information is new. 4x4 system is already in production. I am utterly confused, but I hope LaNeve gave up on the Supercharged Northstar and is going with the Vette plant, and 700HP couldn't hurt!
 

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Originally posted by MelvinJ@May 10 2004, 08:38 PM
Look for a supercharged 4.2L Northstar in the STS-V.
The new Northstar displaces 4.6L, and yes according to Mark LaNeve, it will be Supercharged, but there are now rumors thanks to this thread of a 700HP Vette powered STS...that would be very very exciting and would blow the M5 way out of the water. Here is the link to the original information:

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forum/index.ph...?showtopic=4876
 

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700hp for any 4 door sedan is simply insane.
they should concentrate their efforts into the cts-v+ to bump the power up to 500 and refining some more the chassis. that's the way to beat the germans: by offering detroit grunt into a smallish chassis wich can perform.
 

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Originally posted by TaHoE+May 11 2004, 11:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TaHoE @ May 11 2004, 11:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MelvinJ@May 10 2004, 08:38 PM
Look for a supercharged 4.2L Northstar in the STS-V.
The new Northstar displaces 4.6L, and yes according to Mark LaNeve, it will be Supercharged, but there are now rumors thanks to this thread of a 700HP Vette powered STS...that would be very very exciting and would blow the M5 way out of the water. Here is the link to the original information:

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forum/index.ph...?showtopic=4876 [/b][/quote]
Actually, I checked with my sources again and they came up with an LC3, 4.4L supercharged Northstar, to be used in the V-series STS, XLR, and SRX. It must be a variant of the Bonneville's Northstar.

But who knows, maybe my sources are wrong.
 

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Too add to R.E Sanchez post, I found this link on another GM Forum site about the CTS-V Plus & STS-V

http://www.channel4.com/4car/gallery/spy-s...sts-v-plus.html

Here is a small excerpt from Channel4.com

"These shots show muscled-up Plus versions of the mid-size CTS-V and full-size STS-V saloons testing on the Nurburgring. The current CTS-V, on sale in America, already delivers 400bhp from its V8, but GM has engineered the Plus's V8 to put out nearly 500bhp. Reports suggest the STS-V Plus could develop as much as 700bhp from its tuned version of the Corvette's 6.0-litre V8. 0-60mph shouldn't take much longer than five seconds, for either car."
Umm.. Isn't five seconds alittle conservative as a 0-60 estimate for vehicles packing 500 and 700 horsepower respectively?
 

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Originally posted by dreadnaught1181@May 11 2004, 01:43 PM

Too add to R.E Sanchez post, I found this link on another GM Forum site about the CTS-V Plus & STS-V

http://www.channel4.com/4car/gallery/spy-s...sts-v-plus.html

Here is a small excerpt from Channel4.com

"These shots show muscled-up Plus versions of the mid-size CTS-V and full-size STS-V saloons testing on the Nurburgring. The current CTS-V, on sale in America, already delivers 400bhp from its V8, but GM has engineered the Plus's V8 to put out nearly 500bhp. Reports suggest the STS-V Plus could develop as much as 700bhp from its tuned version of the Corvette's 6.0-litre V8. 0-60mph shouldn't take much longer than five seconds, for either car."
Umm.. Isn't five seconds alittle conservative as a 0-60 estimate for vehicles packing 500 and 700 horsepower respectively?
Not if it's a medium duty truck.

But for a car, yes, it seems way conservative.
 
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