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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
:eek: Got this from the TheCarConnection... It says there was supposed to be a pic with this text, but couldn't get it to come up. If anybody knows more about this or has pictures post them PLEASE!!!!




Spy Shots: Cadillac CTS-V Plus
Even more horses for the CTS? Bet on it.
by Brenda Priddy (2004-05-10)


As if the 400-horsepower CTS-V Series isn't enough, we photographed General Motors' Performance Division engineers testing an even higher performance version.

Referred to as the CTS-V Series Plus by spectators at the Nürburgring, this CTS mule is said to be powered by a 6.0-liter V-8, and sources are estimating the horsepower to be in the 475-500 range. General Motors is aggressively testing this more powerful CTS, but production plans have not yet been confirmed.

The vehicle show here is actually an older CTS-V mule. The higher-performance CTS-V Plus uses a larger-displacement pushrod small-block engine, so the hood hump should disappear in production
 

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Yeah... there were rumors about this when the first reports of the new M5 came out.

CTS would become competitive with the 500HP V10.
My take on that? Smack a 500HP V8/V10 in the STS not CTS.
 

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Hmmm, now that sounds awsome, and that also makes it likely that the Z06 Vette will be at or over 500 hp now :D They won't let a Caddy out shine the Vette, so this could get exciting.
 

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Yah the 500HP should be STSV not CTSV. Shure give the CTSV the 6.0L V8 from the Vette (THE BASE VETTE I MEAN) perhaps with an extra 25 or so HP but no more! Let the STSV and an XLRV be the ones at the 500HP level! :D
 

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Perhaps Caddy could produce a 500hp CTS-V and still have the STS-V outpower the CTS-V! :bounce:
 

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Originally posted by Highlander@May 10 2004, 01:08 PM
Perhaps Caddy could produce a 500hp CTS-V and still have the STS-V outpower the CTS-V! :bounce:
I like the way you (THINK MAN!!) :D :bounce:
 

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Originally posted by R.E Sanchez@May 9 2004, 11:54 PM

The vehicle show here is actually an older CTS-V mule. The higher-performance CTS-V Plus uses a larger-displacement pushrod small-block engine, so the hood hump should disappear in production
This statement tells me that the old test mule probably had an Eaton supercharger mated to the LS6 to acheive similar HP number as the NA 6.0.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Originally posted by KnightHawk@May 10 2004, 08:08 AM
http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gal.../8015_image.jpg

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gal.../8016_image.jpg
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?...1&sid=178&n=158

There you go R.E Sanchez

:type:

**Sorry to remove the pics, but these are copywrited, we are not allowed to post them directly on the site** The Links to the Pics are still there though**
:) Thanks for pics NightHawk... My god she looks like a mean-beast!!! Those wheel arches are insane.
 

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More HP in the STS would come from the Northstar, not the 6 L. Since the STS is more upscale, I think they'd try to use the higher tech engine in it, so they won't have the OHV in a 70k car complaint...cuz you know people would complain (although who know's how much the 6L in the CTS would go for...)

I disagree with the alleged naming...I've heard the CTS V Series Plus referred by a different acronym.

And it would probably match the Z06 for numbers. That's why they have those Vette Blue Devil rumors floating around :)
 

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Originally posted by mrfunji@May 10 2004, 11:13 AM
More HP in the STS would come from the Northstar, not the 6 L.  Since the STS is more upscale, I think they'd try to use the higher tech engine in it, so they won't have the OHV in a 70k car complaint...cuz you know people would complain (although who know's how much the 6L in the CTS would go for...)

I disagree with the alleged naming...I've heard the CTS V Series Plus referred by a different acronym.

And it would probably match the Z06 for numbers.  That's why they have those Vette Blue Devil rumors floating around :)
I agree with you mrfunji! I personally don't think that GM is even considering using the 6.0L Gen IV in an STS application. The STS is a more upscale vehicle than the CTS and would expect GM to use a blown 4.6 Northstar. I've read in a few online magazines and sites that Caddy was seriously thinking of increasing the displacement of the Northstar to 5.0 liters and producing both engines at the same time -- the 4.6 for normal applications and the 5.0 for performance applications. But they might not do this due to CAFE rules and regulations. Instead they might just use the rumored V-12 instead, but in my opinion, an enlarged 5.0 Northstar would seem easier and more cost effective.

Either way though, it's gonna be a Northstar (or similar) OHC engine for the STS-V. The ONLY reason that GM is using the Gen III LS6 in the CTS-V is b/c it fits --- when the CTS was being designed it was deemed that only a V6 would be necessary and not a V8. Later Lutz came around and reversed that decision, but it was already too far along to change this -- the Northstar wouldn't fit! So the next step was trying to shoehorn in another engine and that left them with the Gen III. Since OHC engines are much much more compact than OHC engines, this was the logical choice until the next generation CTS comes along and they can engineer a larger enginebay for a Northstar V8. Although the 400hp, twin-turbo 3.6L V6 that was in the Velite concept is also an interesting idea....mmmm....

I also agree with you, mrfunji, in that the numbers would probably match the Z06 since the Blue Devil is running around. All the hardcore Vette guys I know are all pi$$ed off and angry over the 400hp number in the CTS-V. This kind of gets to me. They always claim that old GM addage that "Can't have the ponies outrunning the Stallion" when referring to the Vette and possible inhouse competition. This has got to change, especially if GM plans on really taking on it's rivals with Cadillac. What will they do if one day, GM decides to give Cadillac it's own luxury/performance coupe to compete with the likes of a SLR, upcoming Audi Le Mans, NSX, etc? They obviously will have to push the performance envelope to even be considered by the same customers, but Vette owners can't get upset over this. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against keeping the Corvette on a pedistal, but for God's Sake, let's at least give some competitive performance to the other brands in GM. Since Blue Devil will undoubtedly be carrying the GM performance banner, there's no reason NOT to give the CTS-V (or future Caddy performance coupe?) comprable hp numbers to the Vette Z06. Besides, the CTS-V is probably a heavier car anyway and is also a sedan -- it doesn't necessarily attract the same folks who want a performance coupe so there wont' be any cannibalization of sales.
 

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Originally posted by KnightHawk@May 10 2004, 03:08 AM
http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gal.../8015_image.jpg

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gal.../8016_image.jpg
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?...1&sid=178&n=158

There you go R.E Sanchez

:type:

**Sorry to remove the pics, but these are copywrited, we are not allowed to post them directly on the site**  The Links to the Pics are still there though**
The vehicle show here is actually an older CTS-V mule. The higher-performance CTS-V Plus uses a larger-displacement pushrod small-block engine, so the hood hump should disappear in production
those are the same picture from autoweek saying that they are not of the ctsv plus...just tryin to clear things up.
 

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Originally posted by nadepalma@May 10 2004, 04:39 PM
"...All the hardcore Vette guys I know are all pi$$ed off and angry over the 400hp number in the CTS-V. This kind of gets to me. They always claim that old GM addage that "Can't have the ponies outrunning the Stallion" when referring to the Vette and possible inhouse competition. This has got to change, especially if GM plans on really taking on it's rivals with Cadillac. What will they do if one day, GM decides to give Cadillac it's own luxury/performance coupe to compete with the likes of a SLR, upcoming Audi Le Mans, NSX, etc? They obviously will have to push the performance envelope to even be considered by the same customers, but Vette owners can't get upset over this. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against keeping the Corvette on a pedistal, but for God's Sake, let's at least give some competitive performance to the other brands in GM. Since Blue Devil will undoubtedly be carrying the GM performance banner, there's no reason NOT to give the CTS-V (or future Caddy performance coupe?) comprable hp numbers to the Vette Z06. Besides, the CTS-V is probably a heavier car anyway and is also a sedan -- it doesn't necessarily attract the same folks who want a performance coupe so there wont' be any cannibalization of sales."
I agree completely. DCX seems to effectively market several high-performance vehicles among several divisions without one division encroaching upon another's sales. Can you imagine an SL65 buyer cross-shopping a Viper GTS? Of course, the price of entry is different for both, but the point is that I think that GM, too, could successfully market multiple high-performance vehicles (Corvette, Silverado SS, XLR-V, CTS-V, STS-V, GTO "GXP?", et cetera), even if they all had similar engines.
 

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holy mother! 500hp! i think perhaps there's room in GM for more than one powerhouse. corvette is and always should be the ultimate GM sports car, but that's not to say that there shouldn't be other, more powerful vehicles in the stable. and as someone nicely pointed out, the vette can't compete with EVERYTHING. it's a 2-seater, and there's quite a market for powerful cars with a back seat. like the CTS-V plus!
 

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This is a great idea. The name is weak. As for Vette lovers complaining get over it. GM is changing to gain market share. If the Vette is not the top of the ladder anymore it is not the end of world.
I also can't wait to see when the STS V comes out. BMW M and AMG are in trouble.
 

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IMO this would be great for the Caddy CTS, but the STS needs some help. 430HP isn't gonna cut it. They need to make a new Northstar, maybe a 5.6L V8 and use that in the STS-V. Make it handbuilt at the performance engine plant and you have a winner.
 

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here is my take on the subject:
I have no ideea what the exact numbers are for the production of the bmw m3 vs m5, but I'd bet the later sells in much smaller numbers (maybe 10 to 1)? the same would sell an sts-v!
also, keeping in mind that the cts is smaller than sts, but tha SAME size with the bmw 5 series, it would make sense to have a monster cts instead of a sts-v, wich can destroy ANY competition.
 

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Originally posted by Highlander@May 10 2004, 08:08 AM
Perhaps Caddy could produce a 500hp CTS-V and still have the STS-V outpower the CTS-V! :bounce:
I like the idea.... problem is.. the Chevy Vette people won't like it. Unless of couse, they bump the performance of the C6... heh heh :rolleyes:
 

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I think that is just an updated 'version' of the CTS-V. After all: it is an M3/M5 competitor and with the M5 gaining 100 hp for 2005, maybe Caddy wants to stay in the game...any thoughts?
 
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