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quote:
Even though the car is a two-seater, Solstice seems bigger than what you'd expect, and in comparison to the British roadsters mentioned above, it's a giant. In reality, Solstice is big for a car in its class. Compared to the Mazda Miata, Solstice is two inches longer, more than four inches wider and two inches taller. Solstice's wheelbase is nearly six inches longer than Miata's. And just to put Solstice into perspective, it's just one inch narrower than the new Corvette, with a track just two inches narrower.


So a v8 or v6 or i5 won't fit in the kappas? especially the nomad and curve sized kappa, please give me a break. people have shoehorned LS1s iinto miatas, and this is four inches wider. I think the kappas just got new engine options . gret news :)
 

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That thing looks even hotter with the top up and the pieces of mud all over it! I can't wait till Summer 05' GM!
 

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Oh boy, this does all look promising.

Interesting to see the convertible top, finally. Based on the shape of the hatch it goes itnot, I had thought the top would be really ugly, rising directly up behind the passenger compartment. But those wings make it quite smooth. Do we suppose the rear window is separate from the top, as in the BMW 6 convertible? Looks that way.
 

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0-60 in in the low 7s? Pathetic. The V6 fiero was matching that kind of performance almost 20 years ago. When is GM going to put a real engine in this thing.
 

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Which car would you rather be in a crash in - the Fiero or the Solstice? I'll take the modern car, thanks. :)

And I could care less about 0-60 in a car like this -- if I want a rail rocket, I'll buy a GTO or a Corvette. The Solstice is about fun motoring, and from what these folks wrote, sounds good enough to me - esp. with the pricetag of a Grand Am GT coupe.

The engine felt strong, easily propelling the 2860-pound car, with an aggressive exhaust note. The 2.4-liter is a good starting point, especially for a car that will sticker at $19,995. At no time did the car feel underpowered, and we drove many miles on the twisty roads in second and third gear, keeping the revs in the sweet spot, enjoying the engine noise echoing off the trees and rolling hills. At speed, we were able to carry on a conversation with our passenger.

GM engineers wouldn't reveal details, but they let on there will be more thrust available at some point. The 2.0-liter, 205-hp supercharged version of the Ecotec, now available in the Saturn Ion Red Line and the upcoming Chevy Cobalt SS Supercharged, could be offered.
 

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Originally posted by Ming@Apr 25 2004, 04:57 PM
Which car would you rather be in a crash in - the Fiero or the Solstice? I'll take the modern car, thanks. :)

And I could care less about 0-60 in a car like this -- if I want a rail rocket, I'll buy a GTO or a Corvette. The Solstice is about fun motoring, and from what these folks wrote, sounds good enough to me - esp. with the pricetag of a Grand Am GT coupe.

The engine felt strong, easily propelling the 2860-pound car, with an aggressive exhaust note. The 2.4-liter is a good starting point, especially for a car that will sticker at $19,995. At no time did the car feel underpowered, and we drove many miles on the twisty roads in second and third gear, keeping the revs in the sweet spot, enjoying the engine noise echoing off the trees and rolling hills. At speed, we were able to carry on a conversation with our passenger.

GM engineers wouldn't reveal details, but they let on there will be more thrust available at some point. The 2.0-liter, 205-hp supercharged version of the Ecotec, now available in the Saturn Ion Red Line and the upcoming Chevy Cobalt SS Supercharged, could be offered.
Its just seems like GM is making the same mistakes it made with the fiero. Offer a marginaly sporty engine at first then offer a more powerfull powerplant later (after public perception has the car pegged as slow). Im sure the Solstice will out handle and perform the Fiero in every measurable way, but there hasnt been a ton of progress here. The supercharged ecotec should be standard.
 

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GM is not making any mistakes with the Solstice yet.
The supercharged version is correctly a option. The cars the Solstice competes with are not about 0-60 times rather reasonable quickness which is not to be confused with speed. More importantly like the Miata the Solstice is about handling, shifting, and affordability. The Solstice being a convertible also shows GM did learn lessons from the Fiero and from the Miatia, BMW Z3 and Z4.
Keeping the price low is what will keep the Solstice around for years to come. I love horsepower, big motors and torque but Kappa does not need to be the replacement for the F-body. Even if a V8 fit GM does not need to make a Corvette killer.
I am surprised GM has not shown any pictures with the top up yet. The photos of the mules with the top up look good. Does anyone know if the tops pictured are exactly like what the production top will be?
Lutz hit one out of the park with the Solstice.
GM build the Nomad now. Don't wait for any market testing groups to screw it up.
 

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Originally posted by 2HOTZ28+Apr 25 2004, 12:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (2HOTZ28 @ Apr 25 2004, 12:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Ming@Apr 25 2004, 04:57 PM
Which car would you rather be in a crash in -  the Fiero or the Solstice?  I'll take the modern car, thanks. :)

And I could care less about 0-60 in a car like this -- if I want a rail rocket, I'll buy a GTO or a Corvette.  The Solstice is about fun motoring, and from what these folks wrote, sounds good enough to me - esp. with the pricetag of a Grand Am GT coupe.

The engine felt strong, easily propelling the 2860-pound car, with an aggressive exhaust note. The 2.4-liter is a good starting point, especially for a car that will sticker at $19,995. At no time did the car feel underpowered, and we drove many miles on the twisty roads in second and third gear, keeping the revs in the sweet spot, enjoying the engine noise echoing off the trees and rolling hills. At speed, we were able to carry on a conversation with our passenger.

GM engineers wouldn't reveal details, but they let on there will be more thrust available at some point. The 2.0-liter, 205-hp supercharged version of the Ecotec, now available in the Saturn Ion Red Line and the upcoming Chevy Cobalt SS Supercharged, could be offered.
Its just seems like GM is making the same mistakes it made with the fiero. Offer a marginaly sporty engine at first then offer a more powerfull powerplant later (after public perception has the car pegged as slow). Im sure the Solstice will out handle and perform the Fiero in every measurable way, but there hasnt been a ton of progress here. The supercharged ecotec should be standard. [/b][/quote]
I believe the "mistake" is when people want more from the car GM is putting out then GM intended. The orig Fiero was born from the parts bin to deliver a 2 seat comuter car. At one point GM said it would get 50 mpg at 50 mph. It was only after it appeared that Pontiac pushed it in the direction of a performance car. The Solstice has had one major overriding goal, low price. The higher the price, the higher the expectations, the higher the equpment level, the higher the price........... Lutz wanted a car under $20K and it looks like he will get it. And with GM's ecotech add on supercharger packages, it will be capable of much more after the purchase is made. The one question will be, will the low output hurt the aftermarket from making things just for it.
 

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good stuff! i'm liking this. it'd be a tough call... this or the G6 'vert. solstice is cheaper and more tossable... G6 has more power and more room. but the big questions is (and perhaps it's been answered)... will it be available in canada?

:eek:

such low numbers... 20,000/year... reminds me of the GTO. has the solstice been designed with canadian crash standards in mind? what if i promise not to crash it? then can i have one?
 

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Originally posted by 2HOTZ28@Apr 25 2004, 05:32 PM
Its just seems like GM is making the same mistakes it made with the fiero. Offer a marginaly sporty engine at first then offer a more powerfull powerplant later (after public perception has the car pegged as slow). Im sure the Solstice will out handle and perform the Fiero in every measurable way, but there hasnt been a ton of progress here. The supercharged ecotec should be standard.
i don't think the late-coming V6 fiero was the problem... the exploding engines and fires were the problem. if the fiero had been reliable and economical from the start, current buyers would have been so excited when the V6 came out that they easily would have bought another. the cars name was trashed way to quick with massive quality issues. no, i think the fiero plan was a solid one... just very poorly executed. and i don't think solstice will head down that road.
 

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Originally posted by paul8488+Apr 26 2004, 06:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (paul8488 @ Apr 26 2004, 06:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-2HOTZ28@Apr 25 2004, 05:32 PM
Its just seems like GM is making the same mistakes it made with the fiero. Offer a marginaly sporty engine at first then offer a more powerfull powerplant later (after public perception has the car pegged as slow). Im sure the Solstice will out handle and perform the Fiero in every measurable way, but there hasnt been a ton of progress here. The supercharged ecotec should be standard.
i don't think the late-coming V6 fiero was the problem... the exploding engines and fires were the problem. if the fiero had been reliable and economical from the start, buyers would been so excited when the V6 came out. the cars name was trashed way to quick with massive quality issues. no, i think the fiero plan was a solid one... just very poorly executed. and i don't think solstice will head down that road. [/b][/quote]
I would agree with Paul. The Fiero had many problems working against it, especially the lack of power steering until it's last few months in production, and terrible shifters early on, plus very limited range with their tiny fuel tanks.

The Iron Dukes were slow, but the best sales year was the one where that was the only engine available, '84, so don't underestimate how much style will sell. And even in it's lowest sales year, '88, it still sold 26,400 copies, with over half of the people content to get the 4-cylinder. All the Solstice has to sell to be profitable is 20,000/yr.

I think the Solstice will do fine for it's intended market, and the turbos in 2007 will take things up a couple of notches for those that want it.
 

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Correction: The fiero never got power steering. Very close, but the car got cancelled before any were produced and sold.

Those pilot vehicles that were built were retrofit back to manual steering.

Fieros other problem: GM planned on selling 125,000 of them a year. Then found out it's impossible to capacitize a plant for that many and sell 40% or less of intended volume. Turns out it's only possible to run a plant at less than half capacity for, oh, about 4 years (say 1985-1988) before you have to say uncle.

MelvinJ is on the right track, if the business case is well thought out at 20,000 for a vehicle this hot, it's better to have to run at full tilt in production (maximize utilization of your fixed resources) to keep up rather than having two shifts sit at home waiting for volume to pick up.

Granted, the fires and quality problems and such didn't help either.

As far as 0-60 in low 7's: what the heck does one expect for a convertible with 4 wheel independent suspension 18" wheel 4cylinder naturally aspirated engine for around $20,000??? That's quite a chunk faster than a Miata (which weighs a few hundred pounds less, I might add...). That's plenty quick enough, I'm sure a few thousand dollars and you can pump out over a couple hundred horse if you want to slap a s/c on.
 

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Originally posted by SolsticeMan@Apr 26 2004, 07:44 PM
Correction: The fiero never got power steering. Very close, but the car got cancelled before any were produced and sold.

Those pilot vehicles that were built were retrofit back to manual steering.

I wondered about that. I know I kept reading about an electrically driven power steering system for them in the last year, and I figured a few had made it through before the end, but I never saw one.

Thanks for the info.

Let's hope the Solstice business case is accurate at 20K/yr being profitable. That takes a lot of pressure off.
 

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Originally posted by 2HOTZ28@Apr 25 2004, 12:32 PM


Im sure the Solstice will out handle and perform the Fiero in every measurable way, but there hasnt been a ton of progress here.
Dont count on it. The 88 fiero gt/formula with late 80's era tires does the slalom in 64mph. The 04 base vette matches this speed. By comparison a new miata has a slalom speed of around 62mph. The mid-engine configuration is a huge advantage. Wonder if Bob Lutz knows what a mid-engine is like?

The solstice is the perfect car for the old gm-something which has no chance of invading corvette territory.
 

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Try again.

The production Fiero GT (pre 1988) was more around 59 MPH. The 88 squeaks out a MPH or two more on a 700 foot slalom. On production tires.

R&T uses 700 ft slalom. while the miata makes only about 62-63 MPH, the Honda S2000 (a 4 cyl rwd 2-seat roadster with 94 1/2 inch wheelbase that weighs 2900 lbs curb... hmmm, sound familiar?) gets almost 66 MPH.

Z06, around 67MPH.

Mid engine drives some different requirements, like more expensive different tires for the front and rear, and a tendency toward oversteer in other than dry conditions (especially ice/snow).

Mid-engine is just different, with a different set of tradeoffs and a different handling balance/feel.

I'm sure Lutz knows what a mid-engine is like - the dude flys an Albatross and a helicopter, and has a major league car collection in his place in Ann Arbor.
 

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Originally posted by Ming@Apr 25 2004, 04:57 PM
Which car would you rather be in a crash in - the Fiero or the Solstice? I'll take the modern car, thanks. :)
I'll take my chances in the Fiero. How many vehicles got higher crash test ratings than the Fiero? No, really, take a guess. Give up? ONE A Volvo sedan. Only car being produced at the time that got a higher crash test rating than the Fiero. Yes, the body is plastic (well, sort of, its a plastic/fiberglass composite). Underneath the body panels, is a full roll cage, except with the tubes in the doors cut so you can open them and don't have to get in and out NASCAR style.

2HOTZ28, the Fiero with the V6 was not running 7 seconds 0-60 stock. If you had a stripped Fiero with a V6, good tires, and were a decent driver, you could hit high 7s, maybe.
 

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Originally posted by SolsticeMan@Apr 30 2004, 08:00 AM
Try again.

The production Fiero GT (pre 1988) was more around 59 MPH. The 88 squeaks out a MPH or two more on a 700 foot slalom. On production tires.

R&T uses 700 ft slalom. while the miata makes only about 62-63 MPH, the Honda S2000 (a 4 cyl rwd 2-seat roadster with 94 1/2 inch wheelbase that weighs 2900 lbs curb... hmmm, sound familiar?) gets almost 66 MPH.


I am dead right on the slalom figures (64.0), I have owned an 88 gt since new. The pre 88 gt models could do 63.

Dont forget that the s2000 is tested with today's tires. The fiero would be right there with newer tires.


Naskie is dead right on the fiero's safety. Ironically the c5 Corvette has many of the same features our cars had in the late 80's.
 
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