[C/K Man]

The story that GM is telling now is that liquidity isn't a problem, they can raise $41B and that will hold them until 3rd. quarter 2010, at which time the UAW agreements kick in, they will be able to make many small cars at a profit, and surely the economy will be much improved by then. Sorry, but that sounds a bit like a fairy tale to me. How about the cash burn rate accelerates because cars sales remain flat, GMAC and Delphi won't go away, there are too many brands to support, cash is gone, can't get a loan, and Chapter 11. Wall Street gives GM an 80-85% likelyhood of loan default within the next 5 years. How does that grab you? No sense in debating how GM got into this mess, the debate is how does GM get out. Unless the fairy tale comes true, I think Chapter 11 is an eventuality. And though Chapter 11 in this economy is uncharted territory for sure (just ask Delphi), it may be GM's only hope to survive as an independent auto manufacturer. Chapter 11 could give GM a much freer hand to do what is neccessary at much less cost. GM really needs to start all over again in the U.S. with 50% fewer dealers and at maximum 4 brands. That way advertising dollars can be much more effectively spent, the remaining dealers would be much healthier, and GM would need far less redundant management. All that is needed are 4 divisions:
Chevrolet (Toyota)
Cadillac (Lexus)
Saturn (Scion)
GMC (Hino, commercial trucks ONLY)
Buick, Pontiac and Saab (at least in this country) have no brand equity anymore. They are obsolete and only take resources away from the potentially successful divisions. My greatest fear is that GM muddles trough this current crisis, broken business model more or less intact. Rick's endless restructuring is in danger of becoming just more of the same shell game started by Roger Smith back in the 80's. Drastic measure need to be taken now while there is still something to work with.

 

[likearock00]

Do I sense you turning to the dark side, Darth C/K? Lord Buickman has filled you with hate and doubt! Your going down a path we can't follow......you're breaking our heart!!

I definitely is a dark time for GM. I am confident they can pull through, but it will be extremely messy before it's all over.

 

[jkennedy293]

I don't think GM needs to, or will, file for Chapter 11. Once they sell Hummer off, the cash from that sale will easily be enough to get them through 2010.

 

[Buickman]

Do I sense you turning to the dark side, Darth C/K? Lord Buickman has filled you with hate and doubt! Your going down a path we can't follow......you're breaking our heart!!

I definitely is a dark time for GM. I am confident they can pull through, but it will be extremely messy before it's all over.

market share -
year..............-
after...............-
year.................-
after..................-
year....................-

like a flight of stairs. stupidity isn't that sequential, it's all over the place. there must be a reason.

Wagoner's Goal
Jim Dollinger
Friday, January 6, 2006

How will you feel when they take your pension? GM employees/retirees specifically, and Americans in general, had better wake up and stand up before the elitist international bankers take most everything. I am firmly convinced Wagoner is nothing more than a puppet. He was fast tracked to the top without any merit and has been dismantling GM since he got there.

No one loses so much money, market share and capitalization without having a plan and purpose. In my opinion, this is what "Red Ink Rick" is up to. This is why he refuses to listen to common sense, and allows GM to decline steadily year after year. Trust me, he's not that stupid.

____________________________________
ps
you need to rewatch the movie.
Yoda

 

[throwback]

I don't think GM needs to, or will, file for Chapter 11. Once they sell Hummer off, the cash from that sale will easily be enough to get them through 2010.

I suspect GM will not get much for Hummer. When you are desparate to sell buyers can wait you out. I hope some plants are included in the sale, GM has too much capacity as it is.

 

[jkennedy293]

market share -
year..............-
after...............-
year.................-
after..................-
year....................-

like a flight of stairs. stupidity isn't that sequential, it's all over the place. there must be a reason.

Wagoner's Goal
Jim Dollinger
Friday, January 6, 2006

How will you feel when they take your pension? GM employees/retirees specifically, and Americans in general, had better wake up and stand up before the elitist international bankers take most everything. I am firmly convinced Wagoner is nothing more than a puppet. He was fast tracked to the top without any merit and has been dismantling GM since he got there.

No one loses so much money, market share and capitalization without having a plan and purpose. In my opinion, this is what "Red Ink Rick" is up to. This is why he refuses to listen to common sense, and allows GM to decline steadily year after year. Trust me, he's not that stupid.

____________________________________
ps
you need to rewatch the movie.
Yoda

I think Rick was hired by the Illumanati to drive GM into the ground. so they can bring back Yugo and dominate the world!

 

[jkennedy293]

I suspect GM will not get much for Hummer. When you are desparate to sell buyers can wait you out. I hope some plants are included in the sale, GM has too much capacity as it is.

I don't think they are desperate to sell. Also they have 5 or more potential buyers, which will only increase the sale price.

 

[osiris]

How will you feel when they take your pension? GM employees/retirees specifically, and Americans in general, had better wake up and stand up before the elitist international bankers take most everything. I am firmly convinced Wagoner is nothing more than a puppet. He was fast tracked to the top without any merit and has been dismantling GM since he got there.

No one loses so much money, market share and capitalization without having a plan and purpose. In my opinion, this is what "Red Ink Rick" is up to. This is why he refuses to listen to common sense, and allows GM to decline steadily year after year. Trust me, he's not that stupid.

One of the best posts that I've read in a very long time regardless of forum. It looks like something I would write!

My argument is that the international bankers have already taken everything... they've just set things up so our physical bodies and labor are collateral for immense Fed loans.

We are permitted to exist under condition of servitude. Most of what we earn goes towards interest on something... Federal income tax pays the interest on the national debt (Owed to the elites) which vastly exceeds any resource that could ever be mustered to pay down the principal.

In short, the entire nation has been mortgaged.

 

[tom3]

One of the best posts that I've read in a very long time regardless of forum. It looks like something I would write!

My argument is that the international bankers have already taken everything... they've just set things up so our physical bodies and labor are collateral for immense Fed loans.

We are permitted to exist under condition of servitude. Most of what we earn goes towards interest on something... Federal income tax pays the interest on the national debt (Owed to the elites) which vastly exceeds any resource that could ever be mustered to pay down the principal.

In short, the entire nation has been mortgaged.

I wish to argue with you on this, but I can't. You've pretty much summed it up accurately. And the foreign owned oil companies are posting record profits while GM is posting record losses. The economy is just upside down.

 

[C/K Man]

I don't think GM needs to, or will, file for Chapter 11. Once they sell Hummer off, the cash from that sale will easily be enough to get them through 2010.

Let's see, Hummer might fetch $300 million or so. And, with GM burning through $1 BILLION a month, Hummer buys GM just about 10 days.........

As for 'International Bankers', whoever they are, that's just an excuse. The U.S. is doing this to themselves. Doesn't matter if it is out-of-control goverment spending, or the sub-prime 'house of cards' that just blew over, or consumer debt reaching record heights. The people of this country by and large borrow and spend rather than save and invest. Live for today.

I suspect that GM has been fuctioning a lot like the old Soviet Union. The leaders of the U.S.S.R. knew in the mid-60's that their economic system would ultimately fail, but since the point of crisis was always so far in the future, no one wanted to really do anything about it. It was better to 'stay the course' and let the next guy worry about it.

 

[CobaltSScrazy]

Let's see, Hummer might fetch $300 million or so. And, with GM burning through $1 BILLION a month, Hummer buys GM just about 10 days.........

As for 'International Bankers', whoever they are, that's just an excuse. The U.S. is doing this to themselves. Doesn't matter if it is out-of-control goverment spending, or the sub-prime 'house of cards' that just blew over, or consumer debt reaching record heights. The people of this country by and large borrow and spend rather than save and invest. Live for today.

I suspect that GM has been fuctioning a lot like the old Soviet Union. The leaders of the U.S.S.R. knew in the mid-60's that their economic system would ultimately fail, but since the point of crisis was always so far in the future, no one wanted to really do anything about it. It was better to 'stay the course' and let the next guy worry about it.

sad but true. My opinion of the USA reflects this post. Most do NOT save and DO spend. To be honest, there is no problem with that when you have the income to support whatever lifestyle or purchase within your means...however many people live beyond their means and cannot afford to pay for their stuff and the sub-prime loan mess just allowed irresponsible people a way to afford way more than they ever should have and not be able to pay for it thus creating this crisis we are now in.

The question is why do we, the United States, and specifically Wall Street allow the financial sector to receive buyouts, subsidies, and essentially a BAIL OUT...but for the manufacturing or automotive or most any other industry outside of finance on Wall Street, we allow US companies to suffer and go bankrupt and end their existence. How and WHY would we EVER let foreign companies and governments purchase our US companies, Anheiser Busch for example (yes I know I spelled that wrong), but you don't see CitiBank or Bear Sterns (sp?) or other finance arms allowed to fail / be bought out by foreign interests groups.

The Double Standard for Wall Street and finance in this country and the 'forget everything' else attitude is leading us towards a have/have not society where a rich upper class dictates way of life to a servitude style minimum wage lower middle class (40-70k combined income family)...its really sad. What ever happened to a quality American Dream middle class lifestyle? I guess it really 'is' an American DREAM and not an American Lifestyle ...

Comments?

 

[jose312]

Let's see, Hummer might fetch $300 million or so. And, with GM burning through $1 BILLION a month, Hummer buys GM just about 10 days.........

As for 'International Bankers', whoever they are, that's just an excuse. The U.S. is doing this to themselves. Doesn't matter if it is out-of-control goverment spending, or the sub-prime 'house of cards' that just blew over, or consumer debt reaching record heights. The people of this country by and large borrow and spend rather than save and invest. Live for today.

I suspect that GM has been fuctioning a lot like the old Soviet Union. The leaders of the U.S.S.R. knew in the mid-60's that their economic system would ultimately fail, but since the point of crisis was always so far in the future, no one wanted to really do anything about it. It was better to 'stay the course' and let the next guy worry about it.

I agree with you The Overall State for ALL of us Right Now sucks, I think GM and other MFG's Were Relying too much on Truck Sales Even until Recently despite what the market was needing. Now everyone is running for cover? !
Anyhow, The big 3 Especially GM has had to Deal with UNIONS, So theres need to be jobs but also? how can you keep them? When The UAW Have been like most other unions greedy? Its one thing to feed your family Another to be just like the Big Fat cats that their suppose to be against? they have turned into worst? Im not Anti-Union. But for years the big three have to deal with Crazy UAW contracts. While we let in the foreigners come in and use non-union And for what? Thats what happens when things go out of control.
I hope GM Does Not have to go the route. I hope for nostalgic purposes they won't cut no more brands except HUMMER. and saab. I Miss oldsmobile, Which GM itself kinda kicked itself into ground and caused its own Division to go into disarray. Keep the Core Brands. I wouldn't miss saturn. But Saturn has been a Fresh thing so.... As long As my Beloved Corvette Isn't cut or its Racing Activities. I could care less about Nascar. And as long as they don't "sissify" the Corvette I.e., Midengine, Hybrid, Non-v8,etc. If you want hybrid buy a Prius. LOL I digress.... Btw, The Soviet Union Had it Coming, Everyone Knows Communism/Socialism ,etc. is a Failure Both In its Inception(Writing) and Even more so in Practice. Capitialism whether one likes or not is the way.
Its only A Matter of time hopefully before the last holdouts i.e. China, Etc.
Start Opening up.(they got the Olympics!?) .Lets wait see..you brought up some strong points. Remember this is not the First time this happend to GM.
As long we dont Become A Chrysler? I.e. Sell Out to Foreigners, look what happen there.

Best Regards,

Jose

 

[BigAls87Z28]

Camaro is here...all our worries are over.
Well...mine anyway.

 

[jose312]

Camaro is here...all our worries are over.
Well...mine anyway.

Amen to that! Camaro Is here.. Hope theres A Bird' T/a Version coming too!
I love Camaros And Ponchos! . They shoulda have never cut the F-BODIES.

brgds

Jose

 

[ByTheLake]

It's a very US-centric set of recommendations, but GM's brand issues are global.

With Toyota and others marketing a single brand globally (for mainstream cars/trucks), how would you recommend GM handle Holden, Vauxhall and Opel?

Perhaps GM must make some tougher decisions and elect to replace those brands, over time, with a single global brand like Chevrolet.

 

[Engelman]

The story that GM is telling now is that liquidity isn't a problem, they can raise $41B and that will hold them until 3rd. quarter 2010, at which time the UAW agreements kick in, they will be able to make many small cars at a profit, and surely the economy will be much improved by then. Sorry, but that sounds a bit like a fairy tale to me. How about the cash burn rate accelerates because cars sales remain flat, GMAC and Delphi won't go away, there are too many brands to support, cash is gone, can't get a loan, and Chapter 11. Wall Street gives GM an 80-85% likelyhood of loan default within the next 5 years. How does that grab you? No sense in debating how GM got into this mess, the debate is how does GM get out. Unless the fairy tale comes true, I think Chapter 11 is an eventuality. And though Chapter 11 in this economy is uncharted territory for sure (just ask Delphi), it may be GM's only hope to survive as an independent auto manufacturer. Chapter 11 could give GM a much freer hand to do what is neccessary at much less cost. GM really needs to start all over again in the U.S. with 50% fewer dealers and at maximum 4 brands. That way advertising dollars can be much more effectively spent, the remaining dealers would be much healthier, and GM would need far less redundant management. All that is needed are 4 divisions:
Chevrolet (Toyota)
Cadillac (Lexus)
Saturn (Scion)
GMC (Hino, commercial trucks ONLY)
Buick, Pontiac and Saab (at least in this country) have no brand equity anymore. They are obsolete and only take resources away from the potentially successful divisions. My greatest fear is that GM muddles trough this current crisis, broken business model more or less intact. Rick's endless restructuring is in danger of becoming just more of the same shell game started by Roger Smith back in the 80's. Drastic measure need to be taken now while there is still something to work with.

I believe the restructuring idea is sound but I would prefer this......

Cadillac- needs to go upscale ($60,000 to $150,000) to compete with Mercedes-Benz S Class,BMW 7 series,Audi A8 etc. ,Lexus LS, and other upscle brands...

Buick- to replace Cadillac in the entry level luxury ($30,000--$60,000)rang to compete with the other entry level segments..i.e. Infiniti G&M, Lexus E&G, Mercedes C&E,up and coming Hyundai (Genesis) etc..

Chevrolet - the "low priced three" type begining with say Malibu up through Bel Air, Camaro, Impala, Chevelle, and Corvette...the $20,000 sedan, coupe, sports-muscle, up through the $100,000 ultimate sports car, Corvette....and also the Chevy truck division with a line-up similiar to what they have now.....

Sport Utility and Crossoversneed to be dropped from all lines except Chevy but can varry in price from $20,000 to $60,000 depending on equipment and packages...this segment will continue to decline and GM needs to allocate its resources in bringing back a variety of american automobiles that americans want...

GMC- discontinued, there isn't one vehicle GMC makes that is not duplicated by Chevrolet, why do you need this division? ...

Hummer- sell it off if you can find a buyer, otherwise discontinue it......

Saturn- discontinue it. It never grew to what it was intended,the cars were cheap and a duplication of others...OR.....turn it into the economy/small car/alternative fuels division with a line of cars to compete with everything from Prius to hydrogen to electric powered vehicles...this division should grow, the Volt could be the "halo" car....

Saab- Dump it whatever way you can. It does not make/ sell enough cars to justify the factory.....

Pontiac- if it is not going to grow better cars then it needs to be discontinued. The only bright light on the horizon is the Solstice coupe, it could become a Chevy, but be careful of competition to Camero. The G8 is only popular because we Americans hunger for a good, relatively priced, v-6 or v-8, rwd, sedan. The G8 is built in Australia, we need the Bel Air, Chevelle, Impala, and El Camino built here...

This is a simplification and can be considered in more detail, but it will help to reduce GM's hemmorage of money and vital resources in too many directions while keeping jobs here and their factioris running. I realize other things need to happen like GM growing confidence in their brands (stand fully behind your product, reintroduce BRAND RECOGNITION, stop with the meaningless names and lettering), win your customers back, grow build quality (GM has already started this with cars like Malibu and CTS) and the many other things GM needs to restructure.....