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SOURCE: Motor Authority

CAFE regulations expected to cripple niche carmakers
Posted on Tuesday 29 April 2008

As the fallout from last week’s CAFE announcement continues, worrying details about the new standards and how they appear harsher for some carmakers than others are starting to appear. The 2015 interim target of 31.6MPG fleet average for new cars and trucks is based on a complicated formula that takes into account all manner of inputs including a calculation of a vehicle’s footprint – the area bounded by the wheels – and power levels.

It’s been revealed that under the new rules the relative increase is highest for the smallest vehicles. Each automaker is assigned its own separate fuel-economy standards for cars and trucks, based on the number of vehicles of each footprint size that it sells, reports AutoWeek.

It means a carmaker like Porsche, which builds a range of small yet powerful cars, would have to average 41.3mpg in 2015. Toyota, on the other hand, which has a mix of low powered sedans and SUV models, would need to average about 7mpg less.

It’s not just Porsche that will suffer. Low volume players, with less diverse product offerings, like Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz and BMW as well as Mitsubishi, Subaru and Suzuki, will face tougher standards under the proposal.
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Oh well. Too bad for them.

This might play into GM's hand if some nameplates are forced out of the American market, or if their sales are reduced.
 

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that sucks. so that means stuff like lotus, aston martin maybe, ferrari, lambo as well right? thats too bad- and aint right.

Oh well. Too bad for them.

This might play into GM's hand if some nameplates are forced out of the American market, or if their sales are reduced.
yeah, but its not the same as if gm outright beat them instead of being handed a victory
 

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that sucks. so that means stuff like lotus, aston martin maybe, ferrari, lambo as well right? thats too bad- and aint right.



yeah, but its not the same as if gm outright beat them instead of being handed a victory
Yeah but yah know what. Cafe is here to stay and it hurts GM too, definately in lost truck sales.

It would not be fair to say that GM had to meet their CAFE requirements but that a company flush in cash to engineer a fuel efficent car, such as Porche, is exempt.
 

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Oh well. Too bad for them.

This might play into GM's hand if some nameplates are forced out of the American market, or if their sales are reduced.
Good god, the last thing GM needs is less companies forcing them to improve. Didn't we get into this mess 20 years ago?
 

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It's not the American way to implement government policy that makes things more difficult for the little guy.

Let's say I make the work trucks in the world, and I want to start mass producing them?
New competition is discouraged in this market by our government just as much as it is discouraged by the big competitors.

International, John Deere....those companies could potentially build work trucks and pickup trucks, but could in no way pass CAFE. The Scout or Carryall couldn't pass today's standards. If Jeep was a stand alone company, they would be screwed.
 

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Good god, the last thing GM needs is less companies forcing them to improve. Didn't we get into this mess 20 years ago?
Do you really think Mitsubishi or Suzuki is making GM up their game?

I was merely commenting that companies such as them dropping out of the market would add to GM sales if GM maintains market share because the overall pool of potential customers would be increased.
 

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It's not the American way to implement government policy that makes things more difficult for the little guy.

Let's say I make the work trucks in the world, and I want to start mass producing them?
New competition is discouraged in this market by our government just as much as it is discouraged by the big competitors.
But it is american to pass a CAFE law that in essence takes away a person's right to drive whatever they want?

CAFE looks un-American to me, so if it hurts GM and Porchse equally then so be it.
 

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This is totally misleading.

High end makers already just tack the gas guzzler tax onto the sticker price. Do you really think Porsche has a fleet now that averages 27.5mpg? Mercedes? How about Lamborghini? Do you think all Lambos average 27.5mpg?

Why wouldn't they continue to do that?

I warn GMIers to take this new Bush Admin. NHTSA rule issuance with a big grain of salt.

It's applying a **** Cheney "Truck Protection Act" - that's what this whole "footprint" thing is about. It's totally perverse to punish small 'footprint' vehicles the most - after all, the simplest way to achieve mileage gains is to reduce size.

The 'footprint' rationale - and the 2006 light truck standard that promulgated it - is already being challenged in court.

Also the 2007 law passed by congress doesn't embrace the 'footprint' standard - it even ended the 'truck' vs. 'passenger car' distinction - the best thing about the new rule.

It just offers a total fleet average without specifying what kind of vehicles will get makers there - that's how it should be.
 

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I wonder how many of the "smaller" companies will dissappear or be bought out because of this.

This could be the opportunity to show the public just how bad BMW, Mercedes & Volkswagen are when it comes to gas mileage (short of their diesels).
 

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No matter what niche manufacturers would have been screwed. Do you think Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston ect will sacrifice their performace, heritage, prestige by putting in small, far less powerful engines so that they could hit 35mpg? I doubt it.

CAFE is wrong, no matter how you get to an arbitrary mpg certain companies are going to be unfairly penalized. The sports car companies will just pay the fines and pass the buck to the customer. Companies like Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Volvo and companies like Fiat who want to return to America are doomed.

All CAFE has done is killed really cool products that the average Joe would have bought. Toyota has forced GM to increase fuel efficiency, not CAFE or the gov't.
 

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Yeah but yah know what. Cafe is here to stay and it hurts GM too, definately in lost truck sales.

It would not be fair to say that GM had to meet their CAFE requirements but that a company flush in cash to engineer a fuel efficent car, such as Porche, is exempt.
So putting companies like Porsche and Ferrari out of business is good for GM? More importantly than that, you suggesting that these companies should design a small economy car?

I definitely agree, rules need to be the same for everyone, but the problem is they are making the rules so rediculous that nobody can obey them.
 

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So it's not enough that CAFE should increase... there will be a specific formula designed to weed out undesirable cars... and someone is out there determining what is desirable and what is not?

Thank you soo much to the evironmental extremists... ruining the fun of the car enthusiasts everywhere.
 

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Basically, the gov't wants us to become more like Europe, where the cars are smaller and gas efficiency is excellent. We do need to stop importing oil because, well lets face it, it's destroyng our economy from the inside out. The value of the dollar plummets as oil rises and we're bowing down in front of OPEC begging for mercy. I'll be damned if America is going to come to this. So if that means CAFE standards and less cool muscle cars, so be it. My country means more to me than how powerful my car is. One day when we find a different way to power our cars, we'll have all that back, nice big trucks and cars that have 58345628 hp, and i cannot wait!
 

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Do you really think Mitsubishi or Suzuki is making GM up their game?

I was merely commenting that companies such as them dropping out of the market would add to GM sales if GM maintains market share because the overall pool of potential customers would be increased.
So you pick two crap companies out of the list of good ones.

Anyway, I was in the hospital last week getting a couple stitches, and I saw a guy with no legs. I thought that was pretty unfair, we should all lose our legs. But then I realized it wouldn't make things fair, it would just mean I had to drive a boring car because Porsche and Ferrari went out of business.....;)
 

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Basically, the gov't wants us to become more like Europe, where the cars are smaller and gas efficiency is excellent. We do need to stop importing oil because, well lets face it, it's destroyng our economy from the inside out. The value of the dollar plummets as oil rises and we're bowing down in front of OPEC begging for mercy. I'll be damned if America is going to come to this. So if that means CAFE standards and less cool muscle cars, so be it. My country means more to me than how powerful my car is. One day when we find a different way to power our cars, we'll have all that back, nice big trucks and cars that have 58345628 hp, and i cannot wait!
It's not quite as easy as just blaming OPEC, synthetic oil can be made from coal for $55/bbl. There is enough coal in the US alone to replace the oil supply for 200 years at current levels. Yet we aren't. Not because it isn't a clean way to do it, but because the government hasn't come up with solid CO2 limits. They don't know what they have to keep it under, so they can't do anything.

That will chance when next fall when we get a different president. McCain.....
 

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that sucks. so that means stuff like lotus, aston martin maybe, ferrari, lambo as well right? thats too bad- and aint right.
Really. What will Dennis Rodman, Jay Leno, 99% of the NBA and all of the other rich people who wipe their arses with $100 bills drive? Who cares? It's not like any of us have 3 or 4 of those in the driveway.

Lotus won't be too bad off, they only sell one car here that can easily be tuned to get Toyota-like fuel economy....especially since it has a Toyota engine in it. The rest? Eh. Buh-bye.
 

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Basically, the gov't wants us to become more like Europe, where the cars are smaller and gas efficiency is excellent. We do need to stop importing oil because, well lets face it, it's destroyng our economy from the inside out. The value of the dollar plummets as oil rises and we're bowing down in front of OPEC begging for mercy. I'll be damned if America is going to come to this. So if that means CAFE standards and less cool muscle cars, so be it. My country means more to me than how powerful my car is. One day when we find a different way to power our cars, we'll have all that back, nice big trucks and cars that have 58345628 hp, and i cannot wait!
Yeah oil is the root cause of our problems... All that Japanese stuff we buy, that can't possibly have anything to do with it now can it? We give Toyota and Honda far more of our money than we give to OPEC. And that's not even mentioning TVs, cell phones, video games, etc. But I don't see anybody rallying around the evils of buying imported goods that aren't oil...
 

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Yeah oil is the root cause of our problems... All that Japanese stuff we buy, that can't possibly have anything to do with it now can it? We give Toyota and Honda far more of our money than we give to OPEC. And that's not even mentioning TVs, cell phones, video games, etc. But I don't see anybody rallying around the evils of buying imported goods that aren't oil...
Japan hated you in WW2, they aren't terrorists now. The middle East is ripe with people who are wackjobs by any standard.

And I suspect that oil companies get a lot more of our money than Honda and Toyota do.

I hate to chance the tune of the thread, but you really saying we should have been all driving the inferior GM/Ford cars of the 80's and 90's jsut because Toyota is evil?

The other difference, is that American oil would be jsut as good to burn, but they won't let you use it. Nobody else makes the things Japan makes.

If I were you I'd be more worried about the Chinese crap you buy than the Japanese stuff.
 

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This could be the opportunity to show the public just how bad BMW, Mercedes & Volkswagen are when it comes to gas mileage (short of their diesels).
VW is definitely behind. BMW and Mercedes seem to be about the same as everyone else. You must have been talking about the company's fleet average.

17/26 mpg 335i
18/26 TL
17/25 C350
18/25 IS350
17/26 Malibu
19/28 Camry
19/27 S40

17/26 mpg 535i
17/24 E350
16/24 Passat V6
19/27 GS350
18/26 CTS
 
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