[cvp33]

That's not an actual quote but close. They do heap an appropriate amount of praise on it's performance.

As far as the comments regarding IRS. My f-body didn't need it, but I sure would've appreciated it. My '97 AnniverZary Edition w/ 4.10's and more flexed like a slinky. Strut brace, boxed LCA's, shocks, nothing seemed to help its road manners. A little too much throttle around a corner and you'd be steering out the passenger side window. Fun, but dangerous. The f-body is/was an appropriate beast, very unforgiving. What do you expect for your $20K?

At $29K I expect that the road prowess of the GTO will eclipse what my Z could dish out. Sure it'll be 2 tenths slower in the quarter but knowing you can throttle through the corner is well..............priceless.

 

[Nocturn_Bird]

Do tell TAfreak, what in my post is wrong, what shoes how Little I know. Or are you just going to sit back and claim bull**** responses without backing them up.

Like this

Tafreak is ignorant litle sissy who loves the new GTO's super agressive looks.

 

[mackingu]

not to leap into the middle of someone else's flame-fest, but could it be that TAFreak ran a faster time than Nocturn_Bird's friend's 'vette because TAFreak is a better driver, and the weather conditions could have been better for him? maybe the track prep at TA's strip is better than the vette's?

just my $0.02

 

[TAFreak]

BINGO! Someone who knows something!

And I thought I was the only one here.... h34r:

 

[Nocturn_Bird]

Well lets see, its HRP which happens to be the fastest track in the country, and he cut a 1.9. So traction or track prep obviouslly wasn't a problem, so his less powerful, heavier TA ran 2 tenths faster because of autmosphere conditions in favor of another track?, Doubtfull.

So autmosphere conditions are going to make up for 200 LBs and 30 horespower? Well **** if thats the case then remind me to move over the where conditions are the best cause then I will be taking down vipers and ferraris.

Oh wait, assuming he doesnt have a WS6 or he would have RANTED on about it, makes his TA at 305, So his ta ran faster then a corvette with 45 more HP, 250 less lBS and 15 more TQ...all because of atmosphere?

I'm not one to magazine race, but when you can run a car faster the the people who do it for a living maybe you should call them up and get a job from them.
Here are some stats I picked up for ya:

Motor trend tests a 98 WS6 to 13.4 @ 107...Or how about car and diver testing a 02 firehawk at 13.6 @ 106....

yet his non WS6 ran a 13.1...3 tenths faster?...hmmm must have been atmposhpere again.

 

[TAFreak]

I'm honestly amazed that anyone could be as stupid as you, and still be able to use computers.

 

[sykboy]

There are such things as factory freaks, we all know. Maybe TAFreak got a FreakTA? Anyway, what is this all about again?

Oh yeah, Wait or not? I say weigh the pros and cons of waiting against not waiting for YOURSELF and then do what you think is best. I say if you can afford a GTO you can probably afford to buy a new one in a few years so WTF? Just get one if that is what you want.

 

[Ming]

All I can say is that I'm glad that Bubba Bubba Bubba won't be able to afford the new GTO.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_843194.html

 

[TAFreak]

If you've ever checked out LS1.com, you'll quickly find my car wasn't a "Factory Freak."

There are other people who have ran the same types of numbers stock.

Now when Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords got a stock Camaro SS deep into the 12's... well that was a freak (or karma).

 

[demonspeed]

Oh my god...

Z28 vs SS vs Formula vs Trans Am vs WS6 vs Firehawk

If you are going to keep going on and on about that and their "only rated at 305hp w/o the ram air", then you indeed are sticking with the magazines. Even if you have a f-body, you'd be in the group of ignorance. These people are very confused, gullable, and in general, have no clue what they are talking about.

My g/f goes to the track just as much as I do. Does that mean she knows what the hell she's talking about? Absolutely not. Sure, she's not driving anything, but she's got just as much "track time".

So let's pretend we are in the LS1 world of "F-body vs Y-body".....

I have a 2001 Z28. Stock rating is 310hp and 340ft/lbs at the flywheel. The Corvette is 350/360 respectively. I dyno'd my car stock with 306hp and 329ft/lbs at the wheels. Theoretically, if we take the equation of 15% driveline loss through a manual tranmission, that would equate to 352hp and 378ft/lbs. As you should know, the highest the LS1 ever got was the SS optional/ Firehawk standard 345hp. Anyway, back to the Y vs F argument...

All of this going through a solid axle (which everyone should know is better than an independent setup when you're drag racing) would theoretically be quicker than the Corvette.

Now, let's add in the weight. My Z28 weighs 3460 with a full tank of gas. The Corvette hatchback weighs a shade over 3200. So let's just say 250lbs difference.

Now lets look at how the power is getting to the ground. My Z28 comes stock with 245/50's. The Corvette comes with 275/40's. Ah, what's this? Wider is better.

Sooooo.... What have we learned?

The Corvette and the F-body (Camaro for this instance), are making the same amount of power. Period. The only mechanical differences between the two is how the air goes in, and how the air goes out. The only thing that saves the Corvette is the weight and how much power is going to the ground. Those 2 variables can be canceled out depending upon who is driving.

Now obviously, this is only drag racing I'm talking about. On a road course, yes, in the hands of a good driver, the Corvette is SUPPOSED to be heads and shoulders about the F-body. Does that mean the F-body sucks for handling? Absolutely not.

Oh, and you're wondering what I ran stock. 13.5 @ 108 with a 2.3 60'. Those 245/50's do suck when you're trying to hook up

 

[demonspeed]

btw, I prefer http://www.ls1tech.com

So does cvp33!

 

[Nocturn_Bird]

The Fbody does dyno higher with less drivetrain loss due to the live axle, but that just means its puting more power to the ground, not that it has more. This doesnt change the fact that TAfreaks magical trans am managed a 13.1 in a 98 supposedly stock. If it were a 02, or 01 It is more liekly but not in a 98. Other differnces do seperate the engines in teh Vette/fbody. I doubt the dual exhaust on the vette is just for cosmetics and doesn't give it any more power then the fbodies y-pipe design. While the fbody is underrated, I doubt the vette's engine is downtuned to keep it at 350. If the FBody really does make close to 350 like you claim, adding dual exhaust and a smoother flowing intake is going to give it some additional power, even if the IRS hides some of it.

http://www.firebirdgallery.com/98lot2.htm

scroll down to the 98 formula, 300 RWHP with mac headers. 13.7 @ 101 stock.

The bottom line is that your claiming things that don't make sence. The latter LS1's are the ones that calim the low times, not the 98's. I could beleive an 02 SS hitting 12.9 since 25% were built in the mexican plant that builds the LS6, along with approximatly 15% in 01. But none were in 98, or 99 for that matter.

I still fail to see how your magical TA ran faster then a car, even if you had equal power, that weighs 250 less LBS that cut a 1.9 60" time which is arguable probably the best you could cut on street tires.

On a side note track time was initially brought up by TAfreak, if your going to make fun, do it to the person who initiated the childish argument that this has become.

Tafreak is still a sissy little idiotic weiner who likes the new GTO.

 

[demonspeed]

25% in 02/ 15% in 01 - It's only the LS6 BLOCK. Nothing else. BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK. Not the heads, cam, or internals. I do beleive (I might be wrong) that all 03 and newer LS1's use the LS6 block.

Here is our LS1 breakdown!

97-98's had larger injectors
97-00 used the LS1 intake
97-99's had tubular headers
00-04 uses hi-flow cast manifolds
01-04 uses the LS6 intake
01-04 uses Z06 clutch hydraulics

EDIT:
01-04 uses the "truck" cam
01-02 F-body loses EGR (y-body never had it)

Some people have slow cars. I've seen a lot of Vette's running 14's. Does that mean they suck? More than likely it's the driver.

 

[cvp33]

Here's an interesting link. Thanks to Assassin @ LS1Tech.com. I would've liked to see a comparison between the Z and the T/A but they don't have any T/A's listed.

http://www.car-videos.com/performance/view...?ID1=84&ID2=280

 

[cvp33]

This link may be more relevant.

http://www.car-videos.com/performance/view...?ID1=84&ID2=106

Camaro SS vs. Corvette

LS1 vs. LS1

Nocturn your argument is dead on. While the Corvette will give up ground at the launch it will more than be able to make up that ground using more HP and TQ to push less lbs. Simple physics really. We could also argue that the drag coefficient of the Corvette @ .29 vs. the f-body @ .32 comes into play down track but why bother. The link has all the info. needed.

 

[cvp33]

Here's another fun one. Probably already posted though.

http://www.dynoperformance.com/article_det...tails.php?ID=28

 

[Nocturn_Bird]

Demonspeed Im talking about the 01-02 LS1's built in the LS6 plant, not the ones using the LS6 block. 25% of 02's were made in the Namek plant which is more performance orientated, thus the LS1's made there are made approximately 10% stronger which could allow for some freakish 12.9 02's or 01's. But not 98's.
Also your LS1 breakdown isn't totally correct as it doesn't include changes made to the corvette's LS1. For example there is a new cam used in 2002 then used in previous LS1s.

 

[demonspeed]

Sorry, I can't beleive I forgot the cam. It wasn't just the Vette that got the cam. It's the "truck" cam which was supposed to make a more minimal effect of the switch to the LS6 intake, while giving it a bit more low end grunt. I've edited it.

cvp does bring a up a good point on the drag coefficient. In a 1/4 mile, it's not going to be much of a difference on a car running in the very low 100mph after crossing the traps. But cvp, are you really going to start about the Corvette out powering the Camaro again?

LS1 vs LS6 block: It's just the LS6 block is structurally stronger. That's it. It does not increase performance, especially on a stock car. Everything else is the same.

There are "freakish" 98-00's. Just take a look at ls1tech. If you're going to say one year is slower than another, i've personally noticed the 00's to be the slowest. Then again, there are plenty of quick 00's too. It's just when I see a slow LS1, it's more than likely a 00.

The bottom line is WHO CARES! This is rediculous we got off on this tangent. Some people have really gone about their opinions in the wrong way, but this started to be about the GTO, and now it's onto 98 LS1's.

The fact of the matter is, no matter what anyone says, someone who put money down on a new GTO is absolutely not going to listen to someone on the internet who says they wasted their money because the "GTO sucks because it's ugly" or whatnot. They are smarter than that. Just look at cvp33, he and I got into it pretty good over at LS1tech. I finally realized he's entitled to his opinion (thought at first, his opinion about the f-body was that of tafreaks about the gto - which was why I went and ranted).

I'm happy there is another gm model that offers the superiority of a LS1 engine in a rwd platform. A car that might be more drivable to someone who didn't feel comfortable in the all-out ballz of a f-body. A car that doesn't need to be outlandish as WS6 for people to know not to pick a fight. A car that keeps the LS1 affordable in the average household - and for the average wallet.

I like the GTO. Would I buy it? No, not unless it had a bowtie on the front. Sound silly to you? Yeah, it's silly to me, but for whatever reason, i've been inbedded from my childhood to buy a Chevy. Other than that reason, there'd be no reason for me not to get a GTO. I'll hold out until a Chevelle or 5th gen Camaro comes out. Until then, i'm happy with my Camaro that will give Corvettes and GTOs a run for their money - not to mention I can't afford a $30K car (I can't legally drink either, what do you expect?).

Ok, rant number 2 - done.

 

[TAFreak]

You need to stop smoking crack and also stop talking about cars you don't own.

You also need to stop talking about things you obviously know nothing about... drag racing.

 

[Nocturn_Bird]

Ugh, I think its more that TAfreak is full of it. Besides that never stopped you from talking about the GTO.

demon I agree with you on the most part on, but the just need to calrrify some things.
The LS6 block is just structurally stronger, that im not disagreeing with you on. But the plant that makes the LS6, also made some LS1's in 01 and 02. The casting techniques the plant uses makes the engines abotu 10% stronger the the ones made in the montreal plant. So it resulted in about 25% of 02's that have the LS1 block 10% stronger then the rest of the normal LS1's.