[demonspeed]

Originally posted by nsap@Nov 16 2003, 11:59 AM
Pro's- Might get more power, retro styling, and more options...

Look at the Z06... 01 they came out and everyone thought it was the top of the line...

02 came out and they were trading them in already to get 20 more hp. If I was in the market for a brand new performance car, i'd be waiting for the GTO in a year or two. In the meantime, i'd have my used f-body B)

 

[demonspeed]

Originally posted by TAFreak@Nov 16 2003, 08:27 PM
For me, speed is the biggest factor and my 98 T/A will currently blow the doors of the 04 GTO (no, it's not stock).

Yup, i'll keep my Z and keep the average GTO owner in my rearview. :beer:

 

[demonspeed]

Originally posted by bigals87z28@Nov 20 2003, 07:20 AM
I accept the GTO into the world of 2+2 american sports cars.

So do I, but PERSONALLY, I am more attracted to the f-body in terms of exterior styling and performance for the dollar. The interior of the GTO is unarguably light years ahead of the F-body. Handling will be right on with the f-body with good drivers, and a bit ahead with average drivers. Straight line performance will be maybe a couple tenths slower with good drivers. With the average GTO driver who DOESN'T switch from the f-body... I think they'll have a VERY hard time keeping up.

Myself, i'd wait for the Chevrolet version... but i'll wait for the Camaro even longer, especially since the Corvette just doesn't do it for me.

 

[demonspeed]

Oh my god...

Z28 vs SS vs Formula vs Trans Am vs WS6 vs Firehawk

If you are going to keep going on and on about that and their "only rated at 305hp w/o the ram air", then you indeed are sticking with the magazines. Even if you have a f-body, you'd be in the group of ignorance. These people are very confused, gullable, and in general, have no clue what they are talking about.

My g/f goes to the track just as much as I do. Does that mean she knows what the hell she's talking about? Absolutely not. Sure, she's not driving anything, but she's got just as much "track time".

So let's pretend we are in the LS1 world of "F-body vs Y-body".....

I have a 2001 Z28. Stock rating is 310hp and 340ft/lbs at the flywheel. The Corvette is 350/360 respectively. I dyno'd my car stock with 306hp and 329ft/lbs at the wheels. Theoretically, if we take the equation of 15% driveline loss through a manual tranmission, that would equate to 352hp and 378ft/lbs. As you should know, the highest the LS1 ever got was the SS optional/ Firehawk standard 345hp. Anyway, back to the Y vs F argument...

All of this going through a solid axle (which everyone should know is better than an independent setup when you're drag racing) would theoretically be quicker than the Corvette.

Now, let's add in the weight. My Z28 weighs 3460 with a full tank of gas. The Corvette hatchback weighs a shade over 3200. So let's just say 250lbs difference.

Now lets look at how the power is getting to the ground. My Z28 comes stock with 245/50's. The Corvette comes with 275/40's. Ah, what's this? Wider is better.

Sooooo.... What have we learned?

The Corvette and the F-body (Camaro for this instance), are making the same amount of power. Period. The only mechanical differences between the two is how the air goes in, and how the air goes out. The only thing that saves the Corvette is the weight and how much power is going to the ground. Those 2 variables can be canceled out depending upon who is driving.

Now obviously, this is only drag racing I'm talking about. On a road course, yes, in the hands of a good driver, the Corvette is SUPPOSED to be heads and shoulders about the F-body. Does that mean the F-body sucks for handling? Absolutely not.

Oh, and you're wondering what I ran stock. 13.5 @ 108 with a 2.3 60'. Those 245/50's do suck when you're trying to hook up

 

[demonspeed]

btw, I prefer http://www.ls1tech.com

So does cvp33!

 

[demonspeed]

25% in 02/ 15% in 01 - It's only the LS6 BLOCK. Nothing else. BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK. Not the heads, cam, or internals. I do beleive (I might be wrong) that all 03 and newer LS1's use the LS6 block.

Here is our LS1 breakdown!

97-98's had larger injectors
97-00 used the LS1 intake
97-99's had tubular headers
00-04 uses hi-flow cast manifolds
01-04 uses the LS6 intake
01-04 uses Z06 clutch hydraulics

EDIT:
01-04 uses the "truck" cam
01-02 F-body loses EGR (y-body never had it)

Some people have slow cars. I've seen a lot of Vette's running 14's. Does that mean they suck? More than likely it's the driver.

 

[demonspeed]

Sorry, I can't beleive I forgot the cam. It wasn't just the Vette that got the cam. It's the "truck" cam which was supposed to make a more minimal effect of the switch to the LS6 intake, while giving it a bit more low end grunt. I've edited it.

cvp does bring a up a good point on the drag coefficient. In a 1/4 mile, it's not going to be much of a difference on a car running in the very low 100mph after crossing the traps. But cvp, are you really going to start about the Corvette out powering the Camaro again?

LS1 vs LS6 block: It's just the LS6 block is structurally stronger. That's it. It does not increase performance, especially on a stock car. Everything else is the same.

There are "freakish" 98-00's. Just take a look at ls1tech. If you're going to say one year is slower than another, i've personally noticed the 00's to be the slowest. Then again, there are plenty of quick 00's too. It's just when I see a slow LS1, it's more than likely a 00.

The bottom line is WHO CARES! This is rediculous we got off on this tangent. Some people have really gone about their opinions in the wrong way, but this started to be about the GTO, and now it's onto 98 LS1's.

The fact of the matter is, no matter what anyone says, someone who put money down on a new GTO is absolutely not going to listen to someone on the internet who says they wasted their money because the "GTO sucks because it's ugly" or whatnot. They are smarter than that. Just look at cvp33, he and I got into it pretty good over at LS1tech. I finally realized he's entitled to his opinion (thought at first, his opinion about the f-body was that of tafreaks about the gto - which was why I went and ranted).

I'm happy there is another gm model that offers the superiority of a LS1 engine in a rwd platform. A car that might be more drivable to someone who didn't feel comfortable in the all-out ballz of a f-body. A car that doesn't need to be outlandish as WS6 for people to know not to pick a fight. A car that keeps the LS1 affordable in the average household - and for the average wallet.

I like the GTO. Would I buy it? No, not unless it had a bowtie on the front. Sound silly to you? Yeah, it's silly to me, but for whatever reason, i've been inbedded from my childhood to buy a Chevy. Other than that reason, there'd be no reason for me not to get a GTO. I'll hold out until a Chevelle or 5th gen Camaro comes out. Until then, i'm happy with my Camaro that will give Corvettes and GTOs a run for their money - not to mention I can't afford a $30K car (I can't legally drink either, what do you expect?).

Ok, rant number 2 - done.

 

[demonspeed]

Nocturn... Correct. It's just the blocks though. That's all. The casting is different. I need to dig up specifics once I get home. All the internals are still the same as the LS1. Same with the heads, cam, bearings, etc.... There is nothing that would make a LS6 block'd LS1 (confusing huh?) any more powerful. It's just more likely to take more abuse.

 

[demonspeed]

Here is the motherload of a thread. It's from Camaroz28.com, and it pretty much explains all anyone will need to know about the LS1 block vs LS6 block.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread....light=ls6+block

This should answer any questions :bounce:

 

[demonspeed]

Originally posted by Nocturn_Bird@Dec 16 2003, 09:58 PM
rofl you can say that again. For reference to anyone who has scene the film Donnie Darko, Tafreak would be the coach of the sparkle magic team lol.

You know, Swayze was innocent!

Donnie Darko... what a strange movie.

A big bunny rabbit. His name is Frank. :drevil:

 

[demonspeed]

Originally posted by cvp33@Dec 16 2003, 08:10 PM
Demonspeed,

I would worry too much about cvp33. He's an a$$. :lol:

Animated, vocal, argumentative, unyielding, but still an A$$.

Talking in the 3rd person now? :drunk:

 

[demonspeed]

btw... if anyone is interested...

http://www.donniedarko.com

have fun :frankie:

 

[demonspeed]

I think it's like 3.51 or something. Not a conventional GM ring gear since it's IRS.