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Should Oil Be Cheap?

7K views 119 replies 50 participants last post by  TJ95GAGT 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
#7 ·
Or maybe if we want to go on a mandating streak, how about a mandate for a certian amount of bio fuel that is actually enough to make a difference. The mandates we have now are so small they are practically irrelevant.

Changing use through BS price manipulation goes against everything that a free country is about. FORCE advancement through reward, not punishment.
 
#6 ·
It should be and the only reason people say it shouldn't is because of the "hippie part 2" Revelation that everything must be green. Emissions are the sole reason these twats want high prices/less use. Unfortunately, their science tends to be very loose to say the least. They have no real proof that our cars are causing any of the changes we see now.

People didn't become green because they give a damn, they became green because the high prices forced them to more frugal vehicles, and they latched on to the green train as a side effect-a feel good factory. These same two mouth talkers drove trucks 5 years ago, and are now spewing their holier than thou crap on the rest of us.

If you want to be green, without any proof that you're accomplishing anything except funding the new green business revolution, but a Prius. Just leave the rest of us alone.

And don't even get me started on more taxes to lower use. Guess what? Those evil vehicles you feel so inclined to throw a gas guzzler tax at, ALREADY pay a gas guzzler tax in the form of paying for more gas...and the tax that is already on it.

So yes. Oil should be cheaper. Not necessarily cheap, but cheaper. I say it should be around $60/bbl. 5 years ago that price would have pissed everyone off, now it looks like an impossible dream. I also think these new CAFE regulations are a GOOD thing. If someone wants to drive a truck, so be it, but don't just buy one because the neighbor has one. Don't be a trend.

Without regulations, we'd all go back to Hummers if gas went back to $2.50. CAFE regulations would stop this, or slow it down a lot.

If we ignore personal transport completely, we still have the fact that high oil means expensive everything. It's a BS market. Oil goes up, so does every other fuel, even non oil based ones. Your food costs more, your kids toys cost more, hell, even condoms were more expensive than a year ago.

So how can there be any talk of oil being expensive a positive factor? How can anyone say that lower standards of living are good?

If we impose a minimum price on things like this, we might as well live in China, a free country doesn't have "minimum prices".
 
#36 ·
Energy, not necessarily oil, has to become cheaper and cheaper to the point where it isn't feasible to charge for it and instead charge for the service (ie "20$/month for electricity not 0,10/kWh)

All of human development to this day has centred on finding new uses for energy and new sources. Energy consumption of each human has gone up and must continue to go up, thus the price must come down!

As for China, they actually have a maximum price for oil... they raised it recently but they are still paying like $0,75/L for gas ;)
 
#8 ·
Unfortunate but true.

I watch the price of oil daily, and every time it goes down its like "yay!", but then you think, well how many more Tahoes were just sold because of this. So I mean it sucks (especially for the US autos) and America can't afford it right now, but we really do need the higher prices.
 
#23 ·
I watch the price of oil daily, and every time it goes down its like "yay!", but then you think, well how many more Tahoes were just sold because of this. So I mean it sucks (especially for the US autos) and America can't afford it right now, but we really do need the higher prices.
Since when does the prospect of better Tahoe sales constitute a bad thing?
 
#9 · (Edited)
bad linkie for me.

Who is to say what the floor is going to be? Would it be good to have a floor? Yes and No. If there is a floor there should be a ceiling IMO. You can't set a one sided limit. Honestly, there is already a floor, once it's reached it will probably hover around there with the normal driving season BS peaks, weather prediction peaks and of course the daily terrorist activity in any number of countries. I'd bet gas would be cheaper if all of the US used the same gas blends all year round, but nooooo that would be to easy.

EDIT: okay so I found the article. Great, high fuel prices help some companies and obviously spur new technologies. Should credit be so easily had? It drove our housing market through the roof, that helped some companies I'm sure.

I love how all news outlets pick the extreme cases. Even at 1.20/gal that lady in the article shouldn't have been driving her exterra an hour 20 minutes to work, but she was and she complained as if she HAD to. It wouldn't have taken $4/gal gas for me to either move closer to work, move work closer to home or buy a more fuel efficient car. I don't know a single person that drives an hour to/from work, unless of course theres an accident or something.
 
#13 ·
bullSh*t to taxing it to keep it higher. If its gonna drop let it drop. as has been stated there are better ways to make change happen.

Mandate that every fueling station has at least 1 E-85 pump (and stop using CORN I don't care that its feed corn, its part of our food chain either way, celuslic (i know I spelled that wrong.) is a more viable option, even switch grass, or maybe the corn stalks after the corn has been taken from it.) I'm not convinced on hydrogen honestly. I just don't see that working for America. Electric cars maybe, but not hydrogen.

I still wish that butanol would have gotten the buzz instead of ethanol it is so much closer to gasoline that there was almost nothing that needed to be changed from the automotive side or the distribution side, and it only lost like 2-5% instead of 5-15% of the MPG of gasoline.... whatever though. America will have to have a huge wake up smack from another country or something before any thing happens.
 
#53 ·
bullSh*t to taxing it to keep it higher. If its gonna drop let it drop. as has been stated there are better ways to make change happen.

Mandate that every fueling station has at least 1 E-85 pump (and stop using CORN I don't care that its feed corn, its part of our food chain either way, celuslic (i know I spelled that wrong.) is a more viable option, even switch grass, or maybe the corn stalks after the corn has been taken from it.) I'm not convinced on hydrogen honestly. I just don't see that working for America. Electric cars maybe, but not hydrogen.

I still wish that butanol would have gotten the buzz instead of ethanol it is so much closer to gasoline that there was almost nothing that needed to be changed from the automotive side or the distribution side, and it only lost like 2-5% instead of 5-15% of the MPG of gasoline.... whatever though. America will have to have a huge wake up smack from another country or something before any thing happens.
Actually ethanol is a 30% difference in energy output.

But really I like the high gas prices, but I don't want them to get any higher. For starters everyone seems to actually care about how much oil the US as a whole is importing now, and energy policy is playing a big role in the upcoming presidential election. That never happened when gas was $2 a gallon. Because of that all of a sudden people are taking interest in alternative fuels, and people aren't living as excessively as before.

Yeah right now the high gas is hurting the economy, but in the long run I think it will only make the country stronger, and more independent in our energy needs.
 
#14 · (Edited)
SHOULD OIL BE CHEAP??

Yes and No.

Oil should be inexpensive for the reason it affects us deeply economically. Oil affects us in every corner of our society. Any item that needs to be transported whether by air or by truck oil will affect its pricing. Cheaper the oil means cheaper goods for all. Oil is also the base material that plastics are made from. So more inexpensive oil means that plastic materials will be more affordable.

Cheaper oil also means that countries that export oil and terrorism are less likely to have enough money to fund their malevolent activities.

On the other hand, cheap oil means more use of oil thereby creating more pollution and GHGs. Another words, Al Gore will not be happy.
 
#16 ·
Someone riddle me this:

Why when oil is expensive do we get from our leaders "we shouldn't do anything, it's the free market". But on the other hand, if it were to get cheap again by golly, we better tax it...can't have the free market take hold, now can we?

Bunch of double talkers coming up with these ideas.
 
#17 ·
yes. And we (the U.S. as the agent for the world market) should take steps to ensure the free-flow of oil at market prices. If we held food and medical supplies hostage like some rouge states hold oil, we really would be a great satan.

But realistically, cheap oil triggered rapid growth in China and India, that led to a run-up in the price of oil. There is middle ground, we have to find that.

But then again the Government makes billions off oil and all they do is restrict it, regulate it, and tax it. They do nothing to locate it, drill for it, pump it, transport it, refine it, or deliver it to the consumer.

If oil is too expensive, for too long, the economy will seriously tank and the world will be wishing for $30/bbl oil.
 
#18 ·
Capitalism is a transformative process. Every 30-40 years, there's another "crisis" which causes upheaval and change ... and new investment and new jobs.

The article correctly points out that expensive oil is good for certain sectors of the economy and social goals. Of course there's a lot of short-term pain if you've got SUVs on the lots, but in the long run the economy will adapt.
 
#19 ·
I'm all for high oil prices, I've hated SUV's with a passion for years. It's great seeing them die.

$4/gal gas might hurt a little now but if it spurs realistic advancement off the oil teat then it's a GREAT thing. Wonder what would happen to oil prices if the US didn't need oil from Arabia anymore? About a third of the fuel Brazilians use in their vehicles is ethanol, known in Brazil as "alcohol." That compares with 3 percent in the United States. All gasoline sold in Brazil contains at least 26 percent ethanol, but motorists driving flexible-fuel cars have the option of filling up with pure ethanol, or E100, which currently is selling for about half the price of the blend.

If Brazil can do it, so can the US.
 
#20 ·
The link isn't working.

Oil prices should truly reflect supply and demand; free market forces should set the price, not the government.

Notice now that oil prices are high-and oddly achieving what CAFE hasn't been able to achieve in years-politicians, pandering to the public, are thinking about artificially manipulating oil prices. I would never(!) trust the US government to determine what the "real" price of oil should be. Never, ever. Be very skeptical of that suggestion. Like it does when it "helped" domestic automakers with misguided quotas to limit Asian car brands, much like it did when it granted tax incentives for buying FS SUV's that further fostered Detroit's dependence on those vehicles, government intervention rarely has the intended effect that it wants. US government, stay out of oil!

Interestingly, when Congress shamefully brought Big Oil before them to grill them on oil and gasoline prices, notice then, and ever since, that government never talks about the ways in which it can positively affect the price of oil/gasoline: practicing fiscal responsibility, which would fairly value the dollar, which would then shave as much as $25/barrel off the price of oil; and stop placing taxes on gasoline, which between State and Federal taxes, adds as much as 10% to the price consumers pay at the pump. Oh, and don't fool yourself: gasoline tax revenue directed toward "infrastructure development" is I'm sure directed to plenty of pork projects, just like Social Security tax revenue wasn't squirreled away to meet future social security obligations.

Government is rarely the answer to any conundrum. And it isn't the answer to this "crisis," either.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Logansowner, I agree with EVERYTHING you've said here! The FACT is America has more oil than we would know what to do with IF we were only allowed to get to it. We have everything from Shale oil to oil in the gulf but, and I know this is my own opinion, we have people in congress that do not want America to be leaders in anything and are so self-loathing that they actually enjoy us to be having these problems right now and just cloak it in this green BS. All of the greenies that are so arrogant to actually THINK they can alter our atmosphere with auto emissions is just beyond me. It has been proven that cows produce more emissions than autos. How about all the Volcano's erupting, what do you think they emit, steam? The Earth is actually now in, what some scientists are calling a 10 year cooling cycle. Last year was actually cooler than 1998 I believe, I might be off one or two years but I bet you haven't heard that one on the news! The fact is that our planet has natural cycles we have nothing to do with. If we could drill here, maybe America could afford to build Islands off our coasts in the shape of Palm trees and Continents instead of Dubi, but some of our illustrious leaders insist we are the problem. I have nothing against people wanting to conserve, to not waste or kill things just because we can, but to blatently lie about what's going on because either they make money on it (Al Gore) or because it gives them power (Nancy Pelosi) makes me sick. By the way, the CF light bulbs we are MANDATED to start using by 2012 will cause more pollution than the power that is required to run an incandecent but again, they don't talk about that...
 
#29 ·
I cheer every time the price of oil goes up. I'm sick of watching our money go to the Middle East. I'm sick of the U.S. constantly meddling overseas in order to secure oil. I'm sick of huge SUV's taking up two parking spaces and using excessive amounts of gas that could and should be cherished so it is still available to our grandchildren. Watching SUV and truck sales plunge makes me smile.

High gas prices force people into more sensible cars, will encourage mass transit and it will substantially kill suburban sprawl. With less money to spend, the endless strip malls and big box stores will stop their never-ending expansion. I know so many people who wallow in the consumption of all sorts of crap and live paycheck to paycheck. High gas prices are waking them up and they are beginning to realize that they need to save money instead of spending their free time throwing their money away at shopping malls. Those are good things. Our economy will adjust, for the better.

High oil prices are in the best interest of this country and this planet.
 
#30 ·
It's fun watching the statists and nannies come out in this thread. Most of them do not realize they advocate suppression of free will and freedom in general.

THEY hate "suburban sprawl", "big box stores", etc...

Why does their opinion count more than mine or anyone else's? Sure I don't care for Toyotas and most Japanese cars, but I would NEVER advocate taxing them separately.

Just because you or I dislike something doesn't mean that we can meddle with it through the power of government. A free society is not meant to be a comfortable place to live all the time. It's not meant to coddle its citizens, it's not meant to take care of their every whim.

A free society however lets people make their own choices, to get out of their way when they want to do something.

You people want a "benevolent dictator" to run your lives. And then you complain once this monster you've created is no longer "benevolent" and runs amok when it wiretaps, sticks its nose in your bedroom, tells you what substances you can or cannot consume, what kind of car you can drive, etc..

Ming wants to drive a Kei car. The safety nannies wouldn't let him. Someone else wants to drive an Excursion type vehicle (and can afford the fuel bill). Well, now the CAFE nannies will not let him in the future, even if gas ends up being $0.50/gallon.

If we remembered that true freedom is not a comfortable thing, we'd all be better off.
 
#34 ·
It's fun watching the statists and nannies come out in this thread. Most of them do not realize they advocate suppression of free will and freedom in general.

THEY hate "suburban sprawl", "big box stores", etc...

Why does their opinion count more than mine or anyone else's? Sure I don't care for Toyotas and most Japanese cars, but I would NEVER advocate taxing them separately.

Just because you or I dislike something doesn't mean that we can meddle with it through the power of government. A free society is not meant to be a comfortable place to live all the time. It's not meant to coddle its citizens, it's not meant to take care of their every whim.

A free society however lets people make their own choices, to get out of their way when they want to do something.

QUOTE]

Free society? Then let's eliminate traffic signals - I should be able to drive through intersections any way I want. I am free. Let's eliminate food safety laws, put lead back in paint etc. I should be able to scream FIRE in a crowded movie theater. I think you get my point.

Government's job is to balance our freedoms, and the greed of capitalism against what is in the country's long range good. Consuming unlimited amounts of gas in not in our long range best interest. American's bizarre need to consume unnecessary stuff (at big box stores for example) is only making China rich and a future threat. I don't really want transfer my wealth to China or the Middle East so I can buy cheap junk at Wall Mart or cheap gas to support a huge Ford Valdez SUV. That is just me. You go ahead and consume to your heart's content and drain your wallet. I still hope oil goes up in price.

For the record buddy, I never said my opinion is worth more than anyone else's. It is just my opinion. Is your opinion worth more than mine? Nope.

I do agree that government has no business snooping into one's bedroom, or wiretapping citizens without a warrent. Government has to be watched carefully (especially this admin), just as business needs to be watched.
 
#33 ·
Oil shouldn't be 'cheap' in so much as the price we pay at the pump isn't the total cost. We are required to keep the middle east somewhat stable with our military in order to have a ready supply of crude for the market, that isn't incorporated into the cost of oil, neither is any environmental impact. Because oil is such a volatile global commodity, it would be in our interests to slowly reduce our usage systematically. If this is done through a slowly increasing gas tax, the proceeds of which would only go towards energy infrastructure investment, i think it might be a smart move.
 
#37 ·
oil should be cheap if its supposed to be cheap, and expensive if its supposed to be expensive. thats it. theres no reason there should be any kind of legislation to control it.
 
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