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The Vue Redline costs 35 grand!?!?! No thanks!!
 

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Uncle Bob,
How about making the Saturn roadster mid-engine with plastic panels? This way it would appeal to a different segment of the market than Solstice. There are plenty of fiero owners who would like a new ride and its not Solstice.
 

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Originally posted by posaune@Jun 5 2004, 08:47 PM
The thing that got me is, I thought GM said they were making the Curve. :huh:
They said at one time that they were making it, then changed their plans..

Did I just not report a wekk ago that the Kappa was not going to be like the Curve at all :rolleyes:
 

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Originally posted by gtjeff@Jun 6 2004, 02:41 AM
Uncle Bob,
How about making the Saturn roadster mid-engine with plastic panels? This way it would appeal to a different segment of the market than Solstice. There are plenty of fiero owners who would like a new ride and its not Solstice.
Easy answer: they don't want to have to engineer a whole new car! Kappa may be flexible, but you're talking about fundamental changes here, Jeff.
 

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My concern: GM seems to have lost its nerve on Kappa. This one is going to be another short wheelbase roadster. Has GM given upon the longer (by nearly a foot, if memory serves) platform that underlay the Nomad and the Curve?
 

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Originally posted by AMcA@Jun 6 2004, 01:39 PM
QUOTE
Easy answer: they don't want to have to engineer a whole new car! Kappa may be flexible, but you're talking about fundamental changes here, Jeff.
It is possible by moving the subframes around. The space frame used to make the ford gt was used to come up with the front engine cobra concept. It could be done on kappa as well. An affordable mid-engine would have little competition and be much more in demand than solstice (rather than just be another front engine 2 seater in an already crowded market).

A longer wheelbase on kappa is possible by lengthening the frame rails, something which can be easily done on a space frame. I believe kappa may spawn a suprise vehicle in a few years.
 

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Originally posted by gtjeff+Jun 6 2004, 11:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gtjeff @ Jun 6 2004, 11:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-AMcA@Jun 6 2004, 01:39 PM
QUOTE
Easy answer: they don't want to have to engineer a whole new car!  Kappa may be flexible, but you're talking about fundamental changes here, Jeff.
It is possible by moving the subframes around. The space frame used to make the ford gt was used to come up with the front engine cobra concept. It could be done on kappa as well. An affordable mid-engine would have little competition and be much more in demand than solstice (rather than just be another front engine 2 seater in an already crowded market).

A longer wheelbase on kappa is possible by lengthening the frame rails, something which can be easily done on a space frame. I believe kappa may spawn a suprise vehicle in a few years. [/b][/quote]
GTJeff: are you an engineer? You sound quite knowledgeable.

It would seem to me that a mid-engine car would be so funadmentally different that all sorts of systems and design decisions would have to change. Close to engineering a new car.

But I don't know much about this. My Dad's an engineer, but me, I'm just another lawyer.
 

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AmCA,

You're pretty much on track, no way the kappa can spawn a 2 seat "rear-dominant" mid-engine (transverse engine/trans, etc.) on the current platform. Might as well start from scratch and build a brand new platform.

Take a long, hard look at the "rolling chassis" photos - re-working the structure to handle a radical mid-engine configuration is crazy. They'd loose all the advantage of a mid-engine configuration (mass density, forward seating and downward vision...).

It is a little bit of concern that GM really doesn't have a rear-dominant mid-engine platform (last one being the Fiero), but only a little. Mid-engines are pretty limited, don't really leave room for a practical back seat without some riduculously long wheelbase, and you'd be hard pressed to name more than 1 or 2 exotic 4-seat rear dominant mid-engine cars.

Also, such designs usually cramp the foot area, as packaging usually puts the driver/passenger foot at about the same location as the rear of the front tires - hence the Fiero foot-box shifted toward the center of the tunnel. The MR2 does this, as well as the McClaren F1 to the extreme (single center-passenger).

Technically, the Solstice/Saturn "unnamed", the Miata, the S2000 and the MR2 are all mid-engine - the center of the engine is between the wheels. The difference is front or rear dominance.

Along with rear mid-engine cars is a nasty lower-than-45% front weight distribution - READ HERE instability, a tendency toward oversteer on low coefficient surfaces where tire tread width can't be counted on for traction anymore, and the almost (I say almost because the base fiero didn't have this) absolute need for different size tires - bigger on the rear - to counteract the weight distribution.

Fiero snow and wet performance, for us fiero owners, is well known, albiet not impossible to live with.

Summing it up: don't hold your breath for a mid-engine coming out of GM anytime soon - the Kappa can't really do it and right now looks like the only "niche" platform.

Cheers!
 

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by the way.. it shares alot of the underpinnnings of the Solstice such as the
side body panels.. don't worry u won't be able to notice
 

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Can't be the lightning. That would be stupid. There's another lightning out there in the US domestic market - and it's a big a** truck. A blue-oval one at that...

But maybe. Saturn people like to name their vehicles after Ford Vehicles (like the Lincoln LS and the Saturn LS). It would be like them to name it the lightning, but it doesn't make it any less stupid.

Posted this on another forum, but maybe they'll just call it the Saturn R. (*yawn*) That's about as original as Saturn the marketing division gets. Ther'll be the saturn R1, the R2, and the.... Redline R!!!. OOHhhh. Shakin' in my boots.
 

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lightning is the what they're callin it.. probably not official production name because
like you said Ford has that name already. But they call it the Lightning because of its
resemblence to the Vauxhall Lightning Concept.. so don't jump down my throat..
at least i know stuff
 

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thatoneguy,

not jumpin down your throat. just venting about saturn blunders and how they might even manage to mess up the image of the solstice and the carline.

Unless you work for saturn. In which case - you're part of the problem!!! :lol: :lol: :)

Relax, just kidding. Sort of. Actually, I had a chance to ask a source of mine and all she/he would say is that it is not named the Lightning - as a matter of fact, at this time there isn't an official name - and all effort is focused on producing the Solstice. Only the advanced people in the corp (mainly designers and areas affected by appearance) are working on what the saturn looks like.
 

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Thanks, SolsticeMan, for your thorough reply to my question.

We need more of your kind of expertise around these parts.
 
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