[nadepalma]

From UK Autocar Magazine-
Article makes sense since Vauxhall just announced the VXR range and seems to be taking it very seriously. This leaves Saab parts and drivetrains to share with the VXR cars. Also, I read awhile back that Opel had developed the AWD system they mention here with Saab, but it was not ready for production. Aparently one problem was that the car sat too high. So the Opel engineers got around this by putting larger diameter rims on the car to offset the ride height. I hope by now Opel has fixed the problems they've encountered and have passed it on to Vauxhall and Saab.

http://www.autocarmagazine.com/news_articl...sp?na_id=209337

Saab readies 300bhp 9-3 for S4 attack

Saab plans to muscle into the high-performance saloon market with an all-wheel-drive 300bhp version of the 9-3 that will gun for the Audi S4. The company has been testing its own four-wheel-drive system for the past two years, and insiders say the car should be ready by 2007.

Power is likely to come from a version of next year’s new V6 engine, tuned from the standard 250bhp to 300bhp. Saab is likely to share technology from partners within the GM empire, and the forthcoming Vectra VXR is the most obvious candidate.

Torquesteer has plagued high-power Saabs in recent years, as power levels stretched the limits of front-wheel-drive chassis. The worst moment came with the 9-3 Viggen (right) in 1999, which comprehensively failed to put down its 225bhp with any degree of composure. Saab has throttled back on high-power front-drivers in recent years; the most powerful 9-3 now on sale is the 210bhp 2.0 turbo Aero.

 

[amark329]

That's awesome. I love Saab. I think it's a great idea they don't really have a performance division.

 

[T-Keith]

V6 in the 9-3? Where does this leave the 9-5?

 

[gerardo_zg]

Originally posted by T-Keith@Jul 14 2004, 12:54 PM
V6 in the 9-3? Where does this leave the 9-5?

V8 ?

 

[Ming]

This would seem to further help the chances of an AWD Pontiac G6 GXP.

 

[rodd62]

sadly ming, i have heard from some one that works on the G6 project, and he said no gxp, and no awd for the G6. now he could be wrong, but he has been right about everything he has ever said in the past about grand ams and the G6.

 

[mgescuro]

Originally posted by gerardo_zg+Jul 14 2004, 02:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gerardo_zg @ Jul 14 2004, 02:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-T-Keith@Jul 14 2004, 12:54 PM
V6 in the 9-3?  Where does this leave the 9-5?

V8 ? [/b][/quote]
Yup. The V8's been in development for a while.
There was an article a while back on saabcentral.com or saabnet.com. I think it was part of the new "global V8" project.

 

[gerardo_zg]

Originally posted by mgescuro+Jul 14 2004, 04:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mgescuro @ Jul 14 2004, 04:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 02:58 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-T-Keith

@Jul 14 2004, 12:54 PM
V6 in the 9-3?  Where does this leave the 9-5?

V8 ?

Yup. The V8's been in development for a while.
There was an article a while back on saabcentral.com or saabnet.com. I think it was part of the new "global V8" project. [/b][/quote]
Maybe it is the XV8 that was supposed to be used in the GP GPX. A 3.9 V8 with 300hp and 290lb/ft. :drevil:

 

[SUPERBADD75]

SAAB is known for turbo fours, the V6 is not necesary. it's heavier, harder to package, and has worse fuel mileage. they could EASILY get 300 horses from the current engine. more pressure, larger wastegate and downpipe, and voila! more power. the V6 was a bust in the 900, 9-5 Arc, and i don't see it being all that great in the 9-3 either. a turbo four weighs less, which is an important consideration when you add the weight of all wheel drive. the nice thing is that maybe SAAB could have an entire line of high performance cars like AMG, M, and the S models from Audi... it could be called Viggen. give me a 400 horse 9-5 Viggen, and i'll love you forever SAAB! hey, maybe we could even get the STi engine in the 9-2X.... wow.

 

[mgescuro]

:lol:
I guess this would mean the resurrection of the 9-3 Viggen!!!!
That's perfect, if you ask me. But I still think the Aero needs a bit more power than 210, epecially since the 9-2X has 227!!! :huh:

 

[mgescuro]

Originally posted by SUPERBADD75@Jul 14 2004, 06:47 PM
SAAB is known for turbo fours, the V6 is not necesary. it's heavier, harder to package, and has worse fuel mileage. they could EASILY get 300 horses from the current engine. more pressure, larger wastegate and downpipe, and voila! more power. the V6 was a bust in the 900, 9-5 Arc, and i don't see it being all that great in the 9-3 either. a turbo four weighs less, which is an important consideration when you add the weight of all wheel drive. the nice thing is that maybe SAAB could have an entire line of high performance cars like AMG, M, and the S models from Audi... it could be called Viggen. give me a 400 horse 9-5 Viggen, and i'll love you forever SAAB! hey, maybe we could even get the STi engine in the 9-2X.... wow.

Yes and no.
4-cylinders have been a staple of Saabs for years. BUt there comes a point where the TUrbo 4 or even a HOT 4 isn't enough. ANd that comes in the prestige markets of the world. You're not going to be taken seriously if you have anything less than a 6 in your engine bay.

Also, FWD can barely handle 250HP. Imagine one with 400 HP. I think you're just pushing the limits at that point. AWD is the only answer for Saab.

While I agree a "Viggen" class of cars for Saab is necessary, I don't believe that a HOT 4 is necessarily the answer. What's wrong with a HOT 6? Or even a HOT 8?? I don't see what a new 9-3 Viggen can't have 300HP in a HOT 6. Or even a 9-5 Viggen with a HOT V6 or V8. Heck... put a HOT V8 in the 9-7X.

But as far as I'm concerned... Saab needs enough to compete with the AMGs and M's and S's. ANd more than enough to blow the Volvo R's out of the water.

 

[GotAWD]

Originally posted by mgescuro@Jul 14 2004, 07:22 PM
Heck... put a HOT V8 in the 9-7X.

why not TT the 4.2 inline six?

 

[AMcA]

Originally posted by SUPERBADD75@Jul 14 2004, 11:47 PM
SAAB is known for turbo fours, the V6 is not necesary. it's heavier, harder to package, and has worse fuel mileage. they could EASILY get 300 horses from the current engine. more pressure, larger wastegate and downpipe, and voila! more power. the V6 was a bust in the 900, 9-5 Arc, and i don't see it being all that great in the 9-3 either. a turbo four weighs less, which is an important consideration when you add the weight of all wheel drive. the nice thing is that maybe SAAB could have an entire line of high performance cars like AMG, M, and the S models from Audi... it could be called Viggen. give me a 400 horse 9-5 Viggen, and i'll love you forever SAAB! hey, maybe we could even get the STi engine in the 9-2X.... wow.

I agree. Completely gets away from "Saabness".

Saabness = turbo 4s.

Don't dilute the brand any more, boys.

 

[redtruck1002]

Saabness is not a turbo 4. Saabness is a style that announces to the world that "I am a Saab", both on the exterior and interior. That distinctive look on the front, the ****pit look on the interior, and those other small touches that make a Saab a Saab. I think a 300hp AWD Saab 9-3 is a great idea, and would be even better in convertible form.

 

[SUPERBADD75]

i agree with everyone that a SAAB is not defined by its engine, but it is a renowned SAAB feature. as much as the SAHR (SAAB Active Head Restraints, for those not so SAAB savvy), the door beams, the pendulum pillars, the key on the floor, also major SAAB traits. however, as i said above, why add more unnecessary wieght? a V6 is going to be heavier, making optimum handling an even tougher feat. the turbo four is a SAAB mainstay, and in the little 9-3, why do you need a V6? a 300 horse turbo four is a much better fit. it would be easier to work with, since the car is already a turbo four, it would be light, and it would need very little in the way of development. 300 is a highly attainable number out of the Ecotec four. it wouldn't shock me to see 350, but i doubt they'll go that far. why take away any SAAB traits that don't need to be replaced? why ruin handling dynamics with extra pounds? the AWD would already add enough weight, so why not offset it rather than add to it? besides, there are already enough SAAB lovers that are put off by the introduction of the 9-2X, i'd hate to alienate them even more. stick with what's worked for so long, and just add to it a bit with more turbo pressure. i'd love a Viggen line, but not from V6 or V8 power.... that would be BMW or MB, not SAAB.

 

[awalbert88]

300hp? The S4 has a 340hp V8 with a very broad torque curve. Unless this is a boosted V6, they won't be competing with the S4 very effectively, despite the weight advantage. q

 

[SUPERBADD75]

okay, then make it a 340 horse turbo four. i'm just curious how many of you (besides mgescuro who owns a SAAB) are familiar with SAAB, and their turbo tuning prowess. a SAAB, unlike most other turbo cars, isn't peaky. boost is available almost right off idle, and the power delivery is smooth, linear, and useful. you do get a tiny bit of lag, evident in any turbo engine, but it's very minute, and after that it pulls like a train. a 300 horse 9-3 Viggen would be very effective in battling the other competitors, and it would have a handling advantage over a car with a heavy V8 in its nose. keeping the turbo 4 over a larger engine would make it easier to achieve an optimum 50/50 weight split, especially with AWD. 300 horses would certainly put it in the hunt, and SAAB is a better price point than its competitors, too. all SAAB has to do is prove itself as a viable choice in the luxury car world to succeed. it doesn't have to breathe fire.

 

[jaorobot]

oh man, that AWD 300 HP 9-3 would shoot to the top of my drool list..

right now, if i had the money, the only sedan I want more than the 9-3 is the cadillac CTS... (maybe the x-type)..

i gotta go see that 9-2X in person, looks sweet in all the pictures I have.

 

[ibechip]

I don't really believe that Saab is defined by a turbo 4. Many would say that Saab means FWD luxury. So why not worry about the AWD system? I think that just being able to say you have a V6 under the hood is what will sell them.

The salesman at a Saab dealership will say, well this car has a turbo 4 in it. Most car-dumb people will say, hmmmmmmmm ok so it is 4. Then they will go to a Audi dealership and the salesman will say, well this car has a V8 in it.

Now to a car-nut will look at the horsepower numbers and go, 340HP to 350 isn't much of a difference. But the car-dumb (my mom for instance) will think, well 8 is higher than 4 so the Audi must be a lot more powerful and I want to buy a lot of power.

Saab isn't a turbo 4 or a FWD luxury car; Saab is a style with a few quirks like the position of the key.

 

[BigAls87Z28]

Please, enough with the "destroying the brand" talk. A turbo V6 would be flat out awesome for Saab. Deffinatly something to make a true contender in the performance market. FWD can only take it so far. AWD not only opens up performance for Saab, but Pontiac, Chevy, Saturn, and Opel. This is very great news...now, which V6? I dont think they are gunna use a pushrod engine? I assume the 215hp, 2.8 HFV6? Twin turbos should add at leat 50% performance from the base, so 300+hp would make this car a killer.
Now, if we could only get the STi package in the 9-2x, I-6 Turbo in the 9-7x, and twin turbo v6 9-5... all would be well in the land of Saab.