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Continuing the biggest product offensive in its history, Saab Automobile AB announces its latest new model and first sport utility vehicle, the 2005 Saab 9-7X. Featuring standard all-wheel-drive and two engine choices, the mid-size SUV will fill Saab’s need for an entry is this rapidly growing market segment.

The Saab 9-7X will make its world debut at the 2004 New York Auto Show in April, 2004, and will go on sale about one year later. Initially, the 9-7X will be produced specifically for the United States and Canadian markets.


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If it looks anything like that pic, I want one. :bounce: I don't care who bitches about it being on the 360. Give it some power, fill the tank and send it my way.
 

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:eek:
Just about what I expected from the 9-7X. I wonder what teh "2 engine choices" will be. Maybe the new Turbo I5 that's supposed to be in the Colorado? Hopefully, it's different from the engine choice currently offered by Chevy and GMC.

If the picture does justice to the actual vehicle, it will be worth the wait. But I reserve final judgement for the interior. And the "fit and finish" of the dash. <_<
 

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Originally posted by mgescuro@Nov 26 2003, 12:20 AM
:eek:
Just about what I expected from the 9-7X. I wonder what teh "2 engine choices" will be. Maybe the new Turbo I5 that's supposed to be in the Colorado? Hopefully, it's different from the engine choice currently offered by Chevy and GMC.

If the picture does justice to the actual vehicle, it will be worth the wait. But I reserve final judgement for the interior. And the "fit and finish" of the dash. <_<
Fit and Finish are said to be much improved over the GMC Envoy, with sportier handiling. The two engine choices are probably the I-6 and V-8, so don't get too excited. I would love to see a Turbo 4 and Turbo 5 personally from the atlas family.
 

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Originally posted by TaHoE@Nov 26 2003, 09:46 AM

Fit and Finish are said to be much improved over the GMC Envoy, with sportier handiling. The two engine choices are probably the I-6 and V-8, so don't get too excited. I would love to see a Turbo 4 and Turbo 5 personally from the atlas family.
Ii would expect fit and finish for the 9-7X to be equal to that of the current 9-3 and 9-5. I'd also expect a dash more in-line with swedish aesthetics. At least have it differentiated from the Trailblazer EXT... or at least differentiated from the 2005 version of the Trailblazer EXT.

But you're right... it will probably be the V6 and V8 that is offered now. But reading that feature in C&D about the Trailblazer EXT with the V6.... UGH. I know it probably won't be a Turbo... but I'll just cling to hope. :D
 

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I don't think that the 9-7x will be a EXT derivative, rather, a SWB derivative, notice how the door jam is right above the wheel well, while in the EXT the door jam doesn't go near the wheel well, it just goes striaght down a la Tahoe vs. Suburban.

Trailblazer SWB:

Saab 9-7x:

Trailblazer EXT:
 

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Originally posted by TaHoE@Nov 27 2003, 08:55 AM
I don't think that the 9-7x will be a EXT derivative, rather, a SWB derivative, notice how the door jam is right above the wheel well, while in the EXT the door jam doesn't go near the wheel well, it just goes striaght down a la Tahoe vs. Suburban.
:huh:
I always thought that the 9-7X was to be built on the extended wheelbase version . Hmmm... well.. we'll see, I guess.
Well... a "sportier" feel on the 9-7X would be easier to do on the SWB. We'll see though.
 

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Sure that rendering looks nice... but there are a few little things that make it special, "subtleties" that would take alot of time and money to change... wheel arches, invisible door handles, new glass shapes, revised tumblehome. Just the flatter tumblehome of the rendering makes it look MUCH better than a Tblazer, but that requires new sheetmetal. As I indicated in the Saab page, that's what we want... all new skin and side glass, plus an all-new interior. My sudden pis&ed of demeanor about this is the realization of a Spring 2004 release for the 9-7. The rendering ain't gonna happen by then, folks. If it were to be, they would have leveraged investment of a sleeker skin across one of the other umpteen brands now offering a 360-based SUV. This stuff is all predicatable.

You guys seem to think that, based on this rendering, all will be OK. I'd agree if I had faith in the reality of this rendering. In the short time the 9-7 has to develop, expect Chevy or GMC glass, the same door handles, sheetmetal, rear lights, etc...We'll see a Saab-like fascia, and if we're lucky a new interior. That would have required at least two years to design and tool, so I think a tarted up GMC dash will find it's way in. Que cera, cera.

Want a rendering to get you by? Paste a 9-5 fascia photo on a GMC Envoy -- much the way the Buick Rainier was slopped together. "Let's put the 'ol oval grille on there, Marge, so everyone will know it's a Buick" Stupidity.
 

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Originally posted by desmo9@Nov 29 2003, 01:26 PM
Sure that rendering looks nice... but there are a few little things that make it special, "subtleties" that would take alot of time and money to change... wheel arches, invisible door handles, new glass shapes, revised tumblehome. Just the flatter tumblehome of the rendering makes it look MUCH better than a Tblazer, but that requires new sheetmetal. As I indicated in the Saab page, that's what we want... all new skin and side glass, plus an all-new interior. My sudden pis&ed of demeanor about this is the realization of a Spring 2004 release for the 9-7. The rendering ain't gonna happen by then, folks. If it were to be, they would have leveraged investment of a sleeker skin across one of the other umpteen brands now offering a 360-based SUV. This stuff is all predicatable.

You guys seem to think that, based on this rendering, all will be OK. I'd agree if I had faith in the reality of this rendering. In the short time the 9-7 has to develop, expect Chevy or GMC glass, the same door handles, sheetmetal, rear lights, etc...We'll see a Saab-like fascia, and if we're lucky a new interior. That would have required at least two years to design and tool, so I think a tarted up GMC dash will find it's way in. Que cera, cera.

Want a rendering to get you by? Paste a 9-5 fascia photo on a GMC Envoy -- much the way the Buick Rainier was slopped together. "Let's put the 'ol oval grille on there, Marge, so everyone will know it's a Buick" Stupidity.
:( :eek:
Such cynicsm.

Fact of the matter is.... we are ALL jumping to conclusions. A lot of us "saab-faithful" are hopeful. You are deriding the crap out of the 9-7X. SOme are indifferent.
Fact of the matter is... we don't know how the 9-7X is going to turn out. No ones even sure if its based on the SWB or the EXT version of the Trailblazer. (I swear it was EXT... but heard it is on the SWB... so who knows.)

So we wish GM had done something different with the 9-7X? Yes. Do you think they have enough time to put together a deccent car? Maybe. (More time than the 1st Gen Escalade, anyways.)

Let's see what 9-2X looks like and how much it may or may not resemble the WRX. Then we can extrapolate what the 9-7X *may* be like. :type:

But like I've always said... I simply don't believe that Saab engineers are going to screw up their own brand. But... we shall see.
 

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I LOVE the looks - a job well done.

But oh Krap....

Featuring standard all-wheel-drive and two engine choices
What do you bet....Yep, the Inline 6 and the pushrod V8..... <_< They just ooze Saabness.

Not.

How about this engine instead:

On Colorado Z71 Vision that performance begins with a Vortec 3500 inline, turbocharged five-cylinder engine that produces 350 horsepower and 350 lb.-ft. of torque. Peak torque is delivered through a broad 2000- to 5200-rpm range.
Now THAT would rock.
 

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Originally posted by Ming@Nov 30 2003, 12:37 AM
I LOVE the looks - a job well done.

But oh Krap....

Featuring standard all-wheel-drive and two engine choices
What do you bet....Yep, the Inline 6 and the pushrod V8..... <_< They just ooze Saabness.

Not.

How about this engine instead:

On Colorado Z71 Vision that performance begins with a Vortec 3500 inline, turbocharged five-cylinder engine that produces 350 horsepower and 350 lb.-ft. of torque. Peak torque is delivered through a broad 2000- to 5200-rpm range.
Now THAT would rock.
Now that would be Ill!!!
 

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Just a hint. The Dedlphi Magna-Ride suspension is currently being tested on Envoys/Rainers for 2005. I'm sure It will be a SAAB 9-7 option. Also, Placing the ignition in the center is a simple workaround on that particular SUV platform.
 

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Originally posted by SAAB95@Dec 1 2003, 09:22 AM
Just a hint. The Dedlphi Magna-Ride suspension is currently being tested on Envoys/Rainers for 2005. I'm sure It will be a SAAB 9-7 option. Also, Placing the ignition in the center is a simple workaround on that particular SUV platform.
Interesting.
It will most likely be a standard option on the 9-7X. Seeing as this will most likely be the highest end model.... it will probably have all the bells and whistles... and then some.
Hopefully a center mounted ignition and a fancy cupholder. :lol:
 

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I can see it now: GM's brand-positioning committee sitting around the table, identifying the features of a brand that differentiate it. "We start with a Trailblazer body and to make it a Buick we add an oval grille, to make it a Saab we put in a center-mounted ignition switch, Saturn gets center-mounted gages", and so forth. Don't worry about whether an oval grille looks out of place of the vehicle, or if people don't prefer center-mounted gages... vehicle identification trumps aesthetic satisfaction, they think.

Don't get me wrong, Saab's ignition placement has history and helps define the brand. It needs to be there. It's just that me and my eternal cynicism see how these things work out. If Saab designed the 9-7 from scratch, the ignition placement would be an expectation, a part of the vehicle's synergy. Great automobiles are designed holistically in this regard. The GM way, for all except Cadillac's cars, is still to start with "one size fits all" and change a feature here and there to support umpteen unique brands. They're not "creating a 9-7." They are "changing a TBlazers ignition placement and fascia".

Do you think in the heydays, the Pontiac team sat around a Chevelle and mulled how they could make it into a GTO? No, instead they were given criteria for the A-body and made a GTO that fit the criteria.
 

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Originally posted by desmo9@Dec 1 2003, 04:02 PM
I can see it now: GM's brand-positioning committee sitting around the table, identifying the features of a brand that differentiate it. "We start with a Trailblazer body and to make it a Buick we add an oval grille, to make it a Saab we put in a center-mounted ignition switch, Saturn gets center-mounted gages", and so forth. Don't worry about whether an oval grille looks out of place of the vehicle, or if people don't prefer center-mounted gages... vehicle identification trumps aesthetic satisfaction, they think.

Don't get me wrong, Saab's ignition placement has history and helps define the brand. It needs to be there. It's just that me and my eternal cynicism see how these things work out. If Saab designed the 9-7 from scratch, the ignition placement would be an expectation, a part of the vehicle's synergy. Great automobiles are designed holistically in this regard. The GM way, for all except Cadillac's cars, is still to start with "one size fits all" and change a feature here and there to support umpteen unique brands. They're not "creating a 9-7." They are "changing a TBlazers ignition placement and fascia".

Do you think in the heydays, the Pontiac team sat around a Chevelle and mulled how they could make it into a GTO? No, instead they were given criteria for the A-body and made a GTO that fit the criteria.
Well... if GM had done the 9-7X from scratch, it would have an incredible time paying for it, as well. Furthermore, the breakeven point on the vehicle would be miles away from any type of feasibility and reality.
Just judging from your posts, you're a pretty smart guy with a head for business decisions. Does the above scenario make any sense?? Not one bit.

Would you be happier if 9-7X were built on the Sigma platform?
Would you be happier if the 9-7X were built on the Aztek platform?
My guess is "No."

As for Cadillac. How many here feel that GM slapped on a few panels, added a few wood strips, and placed a very expensive Italian clock smack dab in the middle of the dash, just to take up necessary space, on the Escalade? I do. Do I want one?? HELL YES. What makes the Escalade a Cadillac versus a GMC? Higher quality leather? Slightly upgraded dash (still ugly though). Egg Crate Grille? Better audio system? Better warranty? Thicker carpeting? Are Cadillac fans happy about the Escalade? Most likely. Is it bringing in more buyers to Cadillac showrooms? Defintiely. Is Escalade doing what is needed to rescussitate Cadillac? Definitely. Remember... a lot of people sneered at Cadillac for putting a truck in its lineup. Who's laughing now?

I think 9-7X will do the same for Saab. Hopefully, with lessons learned from Cobalt and STS and Escalade, mistakes made will be rectified. Also note that Escalade, for all its similarity to its brethren SUV's.... has a different engine....

There is still hope for 9-7X.
I think the 9-7X looks good in the sketch. Hopefully, it will be just as good in person. :D
 

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The Escalade is likely the only piece of badge engineering GM's done successfully. But I think if you examine that case more closely, you'd find a unique situation...

- The GMT800 "baseline" vehicle is solid... tops in it's class ... and already has a "tough" reputation that the Escalade seeks. Much the way Lexus is an acceptable transition up from a Toyota.

- The GMT800 has not been overly watered down.. only shared by Chevy, GMC, and Cadillac. Chevy and GMC have been siblings forever, so really the Escalade is the only spin-off.

- The "badging" is bold enough to make the Escalade stand out. Yes, the interior should have been redone, and Lincoln's Navigator absolutely destroys the Caddy inside. But people are drawn to that fascia. The 9-7 front end will not stand out like this.. it will be nice to look at, like a 9-3, but it won't (and probably shouldn't) stand out from the crowd.

- The Escalade attracted a cult-like following of influential folks in the public eye. If those folks start driving old Chevettes the market will follow. But do you really expect the rappers et al to flock to the 9-7? If it happens, then that factor alone will bring Saab success and nothing else will matter. But GM cannot count on it.

Ultimately, I don't think you can use Escalade's success to justify badge engineering all over the place. Just look at that Saturn and Buick minivan on the front page of this forum today. Exactly the same on the sides, and just like the existing Chevy/Pontiac/Olds versions. If these two new additions don't look silly... I can only hope the Buick version is not sold in the States (probably a Chinese model). Let's put a Saab face on that minivan, too, huh? After all, some people driving Saab cars today may need a larger vehicle but not an SUV. It'll raise more money for the brand! Keep the minivan plant in a little extra OT, too. Yeah, how 'bout it Lutz?

I understand where you're coming from... yeah, GM cannot afford to redo 100% of the sheetmetal on everything. But sometimes they HAVE to do this to ensure long-term viability of the brand. May cost more up front, but will pay back more handsomely. I happen to think this is the case with Saab.
 

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Debra Kelly-Enis should have her assed kicked for letting this monstrosity happen.

They should make a 9-5 wagon with AWD similar to the new Volvo SUV and sell that. Not this rebadged trailblazer. What are they smoking? :krider:
 

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Or maybe an Epsilon-based SUV
 

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Originally posted by desmo9@Dec 2 2003, 09:30 AM
The Escalade is likely the only piece of badge engineering GM's done successfully. But I think if you examine that case more closely, you'd find a unique situation...

- The GMT800 "baseline" vehicle is solid... tops in it's class ... and already has a "tough" reputation that the Escalade seeks. Much the way Lexus is an acceptable transition up from a Toyota.

- The GMT800 has not been overly watered down.. only shared by Chevy, GMC, and Cadillac. Chevy and GMC have been siblings forever, so really the Escalade is the only spin-off.

- The "badging" is bold enough to make the Escalade stand out. Yes, the interior should have been redone, and Lincoln's Navigator absolutely destroys the Caddy inside. But people are drawn to that fascia. The 9-7 front end will not stand out like this.. it will be nice to look at, like a 9-3, but it won't (and probably shouldn't) stand out from the crowd.

- The Escalade attracted a cult-like following of influential folks in the public eye. If those folks start driving old Chevettes the market will follow. But do you really expect the rappers et al to flock to the 9-7? If it happens, then that factor alone will bring Saab success and nothing else will matter. But GM cannot count on it.

Ultimately, I don't think you can use Escalade's success to justify badge engineering all over the place. Just look at that Saturn and Buick minivan on the front page of this forum today. Exactly the same on the sides, and just like the existing Chevy/Pontiac/Olds versions. If these two new additions don't look silly... I can only hope the Buick version is not sold in the States (probably a Chinese model). Let's put a Saab face on that minivan, too, huh? After all, some people driving Saab cars today may need a larger vehicle but not an SUV. It'll raise more money for the brand! Keep the minivan plant in a little extra OT, too. Yeah, how 'bout it Lutz?

I understand where you're coming from... yeah, GM cannot afford to redo 100% of the sheetmetal on everything. But sometimes they HAVE to do this to ensure long-term viability of the brand. May cost more up front, but will pay back more handsomely. I happen to think this is the case with Saab.
I'll give you the fact that the GMT800 is a leader in its market segment.
I do see your point about the Escalade.

I do think that the 9-7X will be met with a lot of success if there are significant diferentiating factors from it's brother SUV's.

I do agree with you that GM's got issues when it comes to differentiating vehicles, but if Malibu and 9-3 are any indication.... they've learned their lesson. We will see though.

-ME
 
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