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The economy does not follow a textbook supply versus demand model because the financial markets are manipulated. Regular gas prices will go back up into the three to four dollar range sooner than you think. In part due to OPEC but also because of increased taxation that will raise the price floor. Platform plans have to be made five to seven years out. In six years, gas will not be two dollars per gallon, I assure you. I am in touch with people in environmental groups and they are feeling highly empowered about change. Take that as a warning. Joe the plumber will just have to pack his smaller vehicle more efficiently before he drives to the job site.

I agree that the economy will probably continue to sputter for the next several years intermixed with brief uptrends. In the short term, oil prices will of course bottom out then normalize but even at $100 a barrel, our bi-partisan Congress was doing laughably little to encourage alternative fuel development. No petroleum alternatives are anywhere near developed enough to sustain global fuel demand anytime soon. It would take tremendous funding and research to find that solution, but money is instead being diverted to widen the income gap. With current prices, it is true that people are buying full-sized vehicles again but consumer spending/saving habits prove that the average American does not think about tomorrow. These same people will be crying big baby tears to the media when they again have to drop a Benjamin every time they top off their BOFV.
The environmental groups are forgeting one thing about change - everything they propose has to work perfectly and quickly since there are no scapegoats to pin "problems" on and higher taxes on gas will result in a depression in the world economy plain and simple and the "green movement" will end - quickly.

The problem with $100 a barrel oil is not the $4.00 a gallon gas - it is the $5.00 - $7.00 a gallon Milk, $5.00 a loaf of bread and the $6.00 a dozen eggs.

Companies held back these massive increases in basic food stuffs this last "oil bump" it will not happen next time, the "big baby tears" will be from starving babies and someone will have to answer for it.

We need a comprehensive 20 yeat energy policy starting with oil drilling and transitioning to over 50% renewables from U.S. based sources and even oil producing countries will support something along these lines because the "cheap oil" is going away and the world economies cannot transition fast enough or at a high enough volume to sustain $70+ barrel oil.

If the environmental groups want "change" that will work they need to accept drilling in the short term and create a viable transition plan to get to alternatives in the long term - there are no "silver bullets" and any successful plan will take 10-20 years to be fully implemented.



Back on topic, why is GM "moving" the Suburban to the Lambda when it already has the Traverse/Acadia/Enclave in the volume Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade/1500 Suburban slot?

The buyers that need a BOF SUV will still buy them but in much lower numbers, and with GMC/Cadillac sell in sufficient volume to justify keeping them on the GMT900/CX300 - in short the market will go back to the early 80's when the Minivan boom started and families will replace most BOF SUV's with Minivans and Mid (Equinox) and large (Traverse) Crossovers and some will move to small (HHR) crossovers and even wagons like the Insignia and Astra if GM would only offer them.
 

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By the time GM gets towing numbers o Lambda up to 8000, Ford will have the Expy/Nav up to 12000
And the only people who will be able to afford the 12K trailer will be exactly the type that would never pull it.

The typical thinking doesn't work anymore. You'll see Toyota abandoning their BOF vehicles, Ford will follow suit soon.

There will be a place for pickups, and if gas stays down or ethanol takes off, the platform will be there.

However, GM thinks that they can get better packaging, good towing, lighter weight, and better fuel economy to better align with the way most people were using their Tahoes. We'll see. The H1 has an IRS. The usual rules don't always apply.

Maybe GM can make a 9K unibody tow rated Tahoe with a fantastic suspension, true 4WD and better economy and weight that the current gen. A Suburban with unibody packaging would have amazing space and utility. It would exceed the current Lambdas. That would be fantastic.
 

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And the only people who will be able to afford the 12K trailer will be exactly the type that would never pull it.

The typical thinking doesn't work anymore. You'll see Toyota abandoning their BOF vehicles, Ford will follow suit soon.

There will be a place for pickups, and if gas stays down or ethanol takes off, the platform will be there.

However, GM thinks that they can get better packaging, good towing, lighter weight, and better fuel economy to better align with the way most people were using their Tahoes. We'll see. The H1 has an IRS. The usual rules don't always apply.

Maybe GM can make a 9K unibody tow rated Tahoe with a fantastic suspension, true 4WD and better economy and weight that the current gen. A Suburban with unibody packaging would have amazing space and utility. It would exceed the current Lambdas. That would be fantastic.
Well with everybody getting out, one auto maker can take over the whole segment and have a monoply on it and that will be Ford.
 

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I cannot believe this, this is the dumbest thing GM can do since getting rid of real full size rear wheel drive cars. I have a new body style avalanche and outside of my vette its the best car/truck I have ever owned, Its styling and function are both great. I went to Penske Chevrolet a few weeks ago to put deposit on new Camaro while I was there I test drove a Traverse, that thing sucks, even the sales person told me why would people pay $45+ for a fwd Piece-Of-Sh*#!!!!! and they can buy 4x4 2009 Tahoe with all the bells and whistles for $40k with a little less fuel economy. People buy BIG trucks because they/we need them, NOBODY IS GOING TO BUY A FWD P-O-S TO TOW ANYTHING!! Another mistake that makes GM what it is today, and nowhere close to what it used to be!
 

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America has been on the decline for years starting in the 70's with the oil fiasco. All the decisions made up to this point have been either hair brained like the 5.7 GM diesel of the 70's and early 80's, the Vega with it's aluminum cylinder liners, the Pinto which exploded if you sneezed on it's bumper, the rot as you drive Toyotas and Hondas etc or stupid like tan black or gray only interior color choices of this dreadful decade or the "lets strip everything off the sides of our vehicles so they all look like plain generic stripo base cheap clone models". This news takes the cake as being the single most stupid asinine decision every made by a car company and really just tells me that GM won't be around much longer as a full car manufacturer.

When will the madness of this horrific decade stop!
I feel as though I should bow down and kiss your feet. AMEN!!!:clap:
 

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Yeah, don't take it off-road, or expect it to stop with a load.
By that logic an Aveo is a perfect family car.



Nope, over 8600 lbs are still exempt.
Light trucks have a weight, payload and footprint average that hurts HHRs and helps Diesel 1/2 tons.
When Gov't types and media talking heads discuss the truck loophole, they mean car based minivans that the EPA classifies as trucks.

the aveo would be the perfect family car as it seats four and i think it even comes with a standard 3 cyl. engine. Why would you have a "load" in your auto unless you mean in your pants.... All cars should be on one platform and should be no bigger then a compact car. For those with a family then you should have planned better and realized that your car only seats 4. For a family bigger then that they should have to pay an excess carbon usage fee of $10,000 per year to register a bigger car then that of a compact like a cobalt or ford focus. If they want a Suburban then they should have to pay even more like $29,999.99 per year in extra fees. Gm small cars from Korean are perfect and they should base all future autos off of them or bring back the orginal cavileer and make that the basis for all new autos as that platform is paid for....
 

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My 07 is my third Suburban, and I don't care what anyone says, they are one heck of a vehicle. The best one I have owned. With my winter travels to Northern Michigan, I would not be without it. It also tows my 30' travel trailer. These CAFE standards are a joke. Let the market decide what Americans want to drive. Not a bunch of government bureaucrats that do not even know how the world even turns!! Funny how all the senators and congressmen travel in black Suburbans paid for by you and me.
 

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The 1/2 ton Suburban will soon be obsolete. Even if there were buyers for it, the new CAFE standards will be very hard to meet with vehicles like the 1/2 ton Suburban in the product mix. The 3/4 ton Suburban may be heavy enough to get past CAFE, but that vehicle is a slow seller and it doesn't make any sense to continue producting it on a unique platform. The real replacement is the Savanna/Express. BOF construction, much more room, and diesel availablility. Full size pickups will still be around too.
The 3/4 ton Burb doesn't sell well, at least to me, because it doesn't have an engine. It used to have a 8.1, and I owned 3 of them, no diesel still, and the 6.0 sucks. So we just hammer a 6.2 Denali towing our 8K. Sure the 8.1 mpg sucked but it was the only game in town, now there is none. Hoping the little diesel saves the towing Burbs for us that need them.
 

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I'm surpirsed all the heavy haulers that use Suburbans aren't already complaining about the current Suburban. The hitch that comes from the factory and isn't easily replaced is limited to 1000lb tounge weight. If you want to tow a 8k lb travel trailer and you get the tounge weight at 12-15% like it should be you'll be at 960-1200 lbs. The hitch is already inadequate for the nearly 10k lb tow rating of the 3/4 ton Suburban.
Your right, but the 3/4's 6.0 engine ONLY can't tow my large ass up steep grades at safe speeds, so again, we hammer a 6.2 Denail 1/2 ton that gets the job done, and yes, maybe the trailer will fall off some day, but I'd rather the trailer fall off, then get creamed by the convey of semi's out of NYC going by me.
 

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My 07 is my third Suburban, and I don't care what anyone says, they are one heck of a vehicle. The best one I have owned. With my winter travels to Northern Michigan, I would not be without it. It also tows my 30' travel trailer. These CAFE standards are a joke. Let the market decide what Americans want to drive. Not a bunch of government bureaucrats that do not even know how the world even turns!! Funny how all the senators and congressmen travel in black Suburbans paid for by you and me.
You have spoken the truth here.
 

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Yeah, don't take it off-road, or expect it to stop with a load.
By that logic an Aveo is a perfect family car.



Nope, over 8600 lbs are still exempt.
Light trucks have a weight, payload and footprint average that hurts HHRs and helps Diesel 1/2 tons.
When Gov't types and media talking heads discuss the truck loophole, they mean car based minivans that the EPA classifies as trucks.
you do not need to have a load on your auto, you do not need to tow a trailer. These needs as you call them are wants. you want to tow, but it is not vital to national security that you tow anything, you do not need a boat or a horse. GM should see this a to start to build autos that are for city driving like the smart cars are. GM only have the Cruiz and beat. Two cars to cover what people need. But gm needs to take those platforms and turn them into a minivan and all that seats four people in posh style with pleather seating so we dont kill any animals in the process.
 

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you do not need to have a load on your auto, you do not need to tow a trailer. These needs as you call them are wants. you want to tow, but it is not vital to national security that you tow anything, you do not need a boat or a horse. GM should see this a to start to build autos that are for city driving like the smart cars are. GM only have the Cruiz and beat. Two cars to cover what people need. But gm needs to take those platforms and turn them into a minivan and all that seats four people in posh style with pleather seating so we dont kill any animals in the process.
Then you don't need a computer either, or your clothes, heating fuel, etc...
 

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Then you don't need a computer either, or your clothes, heating fuel, etc...
you are right we do not need computers, clothes ot heating fuels. people have lived millions of years without those, we can continue to live without them today as they are wants. Needs like water and food are needed to live. GM needs to realize they are raping the planet of resources like cows (for milk and food) metals and such. They should be making cars that are polution free and do not have the ability to tow or seat more then 4. I see no reason why some one really "needs" as suburban, since an Aveo will do the same job of getting you from point a to b. A soccer mom does not need a suburban to do the grocey shopping. She does not need 4 wheel drive for that either. She sould just get the GMC Aveo or the Dodgiac (merged dodge and pontiac) Calibatric (a merged Matrix and Caliber) General Chrysler needs to make cars like that that are no larger then a compact.
 

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what about police cars, fire engines, semi trucks, ambulance's, in your world all we can drive is aveos, huh. If you can afford it, buy what you want. This is america, drive what you want.
 

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the aveo would be the perfect family car as it seats four and i think it even comes with a standard 3 cyl. engine. Why would you have a "load" in your auto unless you mean in your pants.... All cars should be on one platform and should be no bigger then a compact car. For those with a family then you should have planned better and realized that your car only seats 4. For a family bigger then that they should have to pay an excess carbon usage fee of $10,000 per year to register a bigger car then that of a compact like a cobalt or ford focus. If they want a Suburban then they should have to pay even more like $29,999.99 per year in extra fees. Gm small cars from Korean are perfect and they should base all future autos off of them or bring back the orginal cavileer and make that the basis for all new autos as that platform is paid for....
I cant believe you guys havent hunted down this orwellian prick yet.
 
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