[SVT74]

Keep dreaming. Gotta love the Ford fanbois on here.

Keep ignoring the obvious.....

 

[erasmus]

I was getting my car serviced at a ford dealer and they had 5 Expeditions. They were over $70k. they had a used '18 for $68k. They were all platinums.

 

[megeebee]

I was getting my car serviced at a ford dealer and they had 5 Expeditions. They were over $70k. they had a used '18 for $68k. They were all platinums.

I had salmon for dinner last night.

 

[erasmus]

I had salmon for dinner last night.

me too thanks for the input

 

[jpd80]

Just on Lincoln's average buyer age, i was reading an old article form Jan '16 and the Lincoln brand manager, Eric turner mentioned that Lincoln's average buyer age had dropped down to 58 from 65 just a few years before. But then, I saw an article from April '19 referencing the buyer age at 63..... I wonder what's gong on there...

I agree with RMC's earlier comments about Lincoln's current styling being safe but the upside is they finally achieved uniformity. The new products are great but come just so slowly thanks to the lengthy time span of the brother Ford production models, the Lincoln model doesn't change until they do.

Thankfully now, Lincoln has a fairly fresh and full line up but like others here it will be interesting to see the interaction between new Aviator and Navigator, that and Nav's premium pricing will see sales capped at significantly lower than Escalade, that and the fact that there's only half as many dealers (~400 to 950 for Cadillac)

 

[germeezy1]

Fact is as Ford continues the cull their lineup of those in the unprofitable low volume section in favor of high margin luxury car priced F series trucks it places Lincoln on borrowed time. Why fight, and beg those who don't consider Lincoln when you have those not batting an eye at an $85k F series trucks?

Also I would like to mention. One can not truly be a long term historical fan of Cadillac, and celebrate the demise of Lincoln. Those that do have a severely misguided idea as to the origins, and the father of both companies.

 

[BORG]

With Nautilus, Aviator, and Corsair this is definitely their most ambitious product cadence to date. After the Corsair PHEV next year, things calm down until MY 2023 when we get a new Nautilus, Midsize BEV, and compact utility (China). Presumably there is a Navigator MCE in there too. No info on new sedans, I suspect there are no plans there.

Lincoln is doing very well and you'll notice how very little they paid attention to Cadillac in their product development.

 

[jpd80]

Fact is as Ford continues the cull their lineup of those in the unprofitable low volume section in favor of high margin luxury car priced F series trucks it places Lincoln on borrowed time. Why fight, and beg those who don't consider Lincoln when you have those not batting an eye at an $85k F series trucks?

Fact is that the vehicles going away are not really unprofitable,
it's just that Ford can make more profit by simply replacing them

Also I would like to mention. One can not truly be a long term historical fan of Cadillac, and celebrate the demise of Lincoln. Those that do have a severely misguided idea as to the origins, and the father of both companies.

Old Henry smiling down, both Cadillac and Lincoln moving more to Utilities
moving with the times and importantly, where customers are going.....

and any criticism of the brands should address actual missteps of managers
rather than any outright hatred of the brands, people can like both..

 

[SVT74]

Fact is that the vehicles going away are not really unprofitable,
it's just that Ford can make more profit by simply replacing them.

Exactly. Some really old school, basic economics principals at play there including simple opportunity cost. If I can make and package vanilla bean ice cream and chocolate ice cream for roughly the same cost to me, but I can sell twice as much vanilla bean and at twice the profit of chocolate why wouldn’t I just make and sell as much vanilla bean as I can before even considering chocolate all else being equal?

 

[ChrisNJ]

I think it looks great. However, will not even consider it until if/when it goes RWD-based. My wife drove all GM's mid sized suv's because we like the dealer, and she instead picked a Grand cherokee v8. I didn't tell her any of the spec's, just go drive them. She said the GM's were horrible compared to the GC.
We will absolutely consider Lincoln/Ford when they go RWD. Same with sedans, my current choice and fav. sedan of all time is a 300 V8 RWD-only. Hope they keep making them, or Ford steps up and makes one. If 300/Chargers go away I guess I'll have to get a darn Mustang...........haha.

 

[Robert1969]

Review: What the 2019 Lincoln Nautilus Black Label Gets Right and Wrong
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/lincoln/nautilus/2019/2019-lincoln-nautilus-black-label-review/?wc_mid=4035:17128&wc_rid=4035:1693921&_wcsid=2E1637BE982D0393126522EAB2C8C7A988BA91CFEAB24B6D
July 24, 2019
By Christian Seabaugh

Luxury means different things to different parts of the country, especially when it comes to cars. On the West Coast, luxury-car buyers are increasingly going electric. In the Northeast, you're far more likely to see luxury SUVs. But in the Midwest, where I spent a few days driving a 2019 Lincoln Nautilus Black Label around Southeastern Missouri, Lincoln and Cadillac are still king. With Lincoln striving to appeal to those outside the heartland, here's what the Nautilus Black Label gets right and wrong.

Great first impressions

One of Lincoln's smartest moves of the past few years was deciding to give its models real names. Formerly known as the MKX, the new Nautilus and its updated sheetmetal turned heads and drew bystanders with regularity across eastern Missouri. "What is that?' "THAT's a Lincoln?" "Nautilus?" Rebranding to the Nautilus name was truly a stroke of genius. Even if it's a name that some struggle to pronounce, a real name resonates with actual real human beings far better than three random letters ever could.

More at link

I’d rather the smaller Cadillac XT4 at this price point than this. It think it’s prettier and sportier inside and out.

 

[rmc523]

Just on Lincoln's average buyer age, i was reading an old article form Jan '16 and the Lincoln brand manager, Eric turner mentioned that Lincoln's average buyer age had dropped down to 58 from 65 just a few years before. But then, I saw an article from April '19 referencing the buyer age at 63..... I wonder what's gong on there...

I agree with RMC's earlier comments about Lincoln's current styling being safe but the upside is they finally achieved uniformity. The new products are great but come just so slowly thanks to the lengthy time span of the brother Ford production models, the Lincoln model doesn't change until they do.

Thankfully now, Lincoln has a fairly fresh and full line up but like others here it will be interesting to see the interaction between new Aviator and Navigator, that and Nav's premium pricing will see sales capped at significantly lower than Escalade, that and the fact that there's only half as many dealers (~400 to 950 for Cadillac)

I've been wondering if/when we'll see the Lincoln dealer network expand. For example, Fort Lauderdale, which has dealerships of most of the regular brands (Ford, Chevy, Honda, Nissan, FCA, Subaru), but more relevant to this topic many high-end brand dealerships (Cadillac, Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Aston, etc), but hasn't had a Lincoln dealer in Fort Lauderdale since the one dealer became a Honda location in the recession. You have to drive at least 15-20 mins down the road to get to one in any direction.

I know they were talking about standalone Lincoln stores now, though. Which I think is a step in the right direction to pull them away from the co-Ford stores.

 

[BORG]

I’d rather the smaller Cadillac XT4 at this price point than this. It think it’s prettier and sportier inside and out.

Sportier huh?

Cadillac XT4:
0-60: 7.5 Seconds
Quarter Mile: 15.8 @ 89.4mph

Lincoln Nautilus:
0-60: 5.8 Seconds
Quarter Mile: 14.3 @ 98mph

 

[sdotjeezy]

Sportier huh?

Cadillac XT4:
0-60: 7.5 Seconds
Quarter Mile: 15.8 @ 89.4mph

Lincoln Nautilus:
0-60: 5.8 Seconds
Quarter Mile: 14.3 @ 98mph

Get those facts out of here, we go by feeling...even though I probably never driven the XT4, I feel as if it might be more sporty.

 

[LowRider]

Sportier huh?

Cadillac XT4:
0-60: 7.5 Seconds
Quarter Mile: 15.8 @ 89.4mph

Lincoln Nautilus:
0-60: 5.8 Seconds
Quarter Mile: 14.3 @ 98mph

Yeah with the optional engine. Standard engine is 250 HP which in a heavier vehicle is probably slower than the XT4. But hey it doesn't fit your agenda so post away.

 

[sdotjeezy]

Yeah with the optional engine. Standard engine is 250 HP which in a heavier vehicle is probably slower than the XT4. But hey it doesn't fit your agenda so post away.

Base engine in Nautilus does 60 in 6.8 seconds which if my math is correct is still 1 full second faster than the XT4. But agendas...right?

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23320806/2019-lincoln-nautilus-crossover-first-drive/

Anyway, I really don't care which is faster to 60 because these aren't intended to be sporty regardless of how large a wheel tire package the OEM fits or how it wears a "Sport" or "Touring" package label. These are all FWD based people moving appliances w/ some amenities thrown in so that they can fit in whatever entry level lux segment they're supposed to be in.

 

[Robert1969]

Sportier huh?

Cadillac XT4:
0-60: 7.5 Seconds
Quarter Mile: 15.8 @ 89.4mph

Lincoln Nautilus:
0-60: 5.8 Seconds
Quarter Mile: 14.3 @ 98mph

1. Acceleration isn’t all there is to being sporty. The 1984 BMW 318i took 10.7 seconds to get to sixty, but there aren’t many SUVs today that comes close to the sporty feel of that sport sedan (probably exactly zero).

2. I was clearly, in context, talking about aesthetics. “I think it is prettier and sportier inside and out.” If I were talking about speed, here, I would not say “inside and out” because the 0-60 time for a vehicle is exactly the same inside or out, so it would be a tautological statement to say it was such “inside and out.” So what is “sportier inside and out” mean here? It could ONLY mean aesthetics because those are visually different from each other.

 

[LowRider]

Base engine in Nautilus does 60 in 6.8 seconds which if my math is correct is still 1 full second faster than the XT4. But agendas...right?

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23320806/2019-lincoln-nautilus-crossover-first-drive/

Anyway, I really don't care which is faster to 60 because these aren't intended to be sporty regardless of how large a wheel tire package the OEM fits or how it wears a "Sport" or "Touring" package label. These are all FWD based people moving appliances w/ some amenities thrown in so that they can fit in whatever entry level lux segment they're supposed to be in.

9

Agreed. I'm not the one that threw out the initial 0-60 stuff to make a point. These are family haulers with a lot of amenities and tech. As long as they handle decently and have good power they fit the bill for most buyers.

 

[jpd80]

1. Acceleration isn’t all there is to being sporty. The 1984 BMW 318i took 10.7 seconds to get to sixty, but there aren’t many SUVs today that comes close to the sporty feel of that sport sedan (probably exactly zero).

Mainly because that "sporty feel" of a sports sedan is not enough to hold buyer interest,
most buyers no prefer utilites and charging up the freeway on-ramps and getting up to
speed quickly is of far more importance to those buyers than racing through twisting roads.

2. I was clearly, in context, talking about aesthetics. “I think it is prettier and sportier inside and out.” If I were talking about speed, here, I would not say “inside and out” because the 0-60 time for a vehicle is exactly the same inside or out, so it would be a tautological statement to say it was such “inside and out.” So what is “sportier inside and out” mean here? It could ONLY mean aesthetics because those are visually different from each other.

There's only so much you can do with FWD /AWD, the basic aesthetics are re improved by a longer wheelbase
making them look less dumpy but I really wonder if buyers actually care all that much. Beyond the vehicles
doing what they want and not looking unpleasant, I doubt it's that much of an issue.

 

[BORG]

It really is stunning to me how performance deficient Cadillac utilities are, not sure what happened there. All of GM's utilities are noticeably deficient and forgettable. I'm not sure at what point they pay attention to Ford, FCA, or the Germans. It's not to say the entire vehicle range is deficient, just that they have absolutely zero options for people who want anything beyond a very basic driving experience. It really does look like GM thinks utilities are not for anybody who wants to go fast, which seems to be the excuse I see repeated. Then why does just about everybody else make go-fast and/or electrified versions of their utilities?