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Lucerne vs. Avalon- I'm looking forward to the Car and Driver compo this fall. The Northstar V8, though still 5 less HP at 275 has a HUGE torque advantage of 300 lb/ft vs. the avalons 260. We all know it's the torque that really matters.

And it doesn't sound like the Avalon is going to help Toyota catch Buick in the Customer Satisfaction index, OR the Dependability index this year either!

:hyper:
 
GMCSonoma said:
Sure it does! That is the FIRST thing one is taught in sales training, cater to your specific market! It is all about REGIONAL sales and effective marketing!
When everyone is talking about how well a car is selling, and you pop in with "Well, I haven't seen many on the road!", that has absolutely nothing to do with how well the car is, in fact, selling.
 
This is great! Toyota, contrary to what some believe, isn't the ''invincible japanese automaker''. They just want to beat GM and say they are number one, so they are trying to do whatever they can. And it's going to hurt their reputation, badly. If you already have a bad reputation and you cars are bad, it's not as much of a shock, but when you do like toyota has done with the avalon, and people are going to be disgusted. This is just one trip up that is going to lead to a big fall. And I am enjoying it!
 
nsap said:
:eek: Where are GMI's Toyota-lovers???? I am disappointed that they haven't chimed in on this thread. I would love to see their excuse for the poor trim quality in the pic that Big-Al posted.

When I first saw the Avalon's interior I thought it was funny that they just covered all the switchgear to hide it because it actually looks cheap. Smooth move Yoda.
Hi! :sad:

This is not acceptable from Toyota. This shouldn't have happened. They need to really look at this and make sure this doesn't occur again with their products. First year product. 2006 will have all quirks fixed. Then again, this is the only article i've read that had this issue.

But let me ask you. Does the Lucurene offer the features that the Avalon has? Bluetooth? Keyless start? Voice activated Navigation? XENON HEADLAMPS? NOPE.

Hey nsap, read the auto news lately? :eek:
 
Does have Navigation. Weither its voice activated, or not remains to be seen.
But I think Toyota should worry about the quality of there cars before they start adding more gizmos that will give them more headaches.
Whats next, recalls on Camry's for air bags? Oh wait....
 
BigAls87Z28 said:
Does have Navigation. Weither its voice activated, or not remains to be seen.
But I think Toyota should worry about the quality of there cars before they start adding more gizmos that will give them more headaches.
Whats next, recalls on Camry's for air bags? Oh wait....
Isn't that what GM used to do before they started to cost cut? 1995 Oldsmobile Aurora comes to mind. Innovative and ahead of it's time. Now GM just builds crap with a high price tag. Blah products.

The quality of Toyota's cars haven't decreased. The issue seems to lie with the factory. Looks like Toyota is going to have to retrain and reorganize the workers at the plant.
 
Vintalage said:
Hi! :sad:

This is not acceptable from Toyota. This shouldn't have happened. They need to really look at this and make sure this doesn't occur again with their products. First year product. 2006 will have all quirks fixed. Then again, this is the only article i've read that had this issue.

But let me ask you. Does the Lucurene offer the features that the Avalon has? Bluetooth? Keyless start? Voice activated Navigation? XENON HEADLAMPS? NOPE.

Hey nsap, read the auto news lately? :eek:
I don't see the Avalon offering remote vehicle start, XM Satellite Radio, or On Star.

What good are the Avalon's electronics if the knobs to control them fall off.:eek: :lmao:

Yes, I read Auto News once a week when it arrives in my mailbox.
 
Whatever the excuse is, im sure its a valid one.
GM used to do it, cause they thought that there buyers would overlook that and just buy the car because it was GM.
Now GM is approaching 20% market share.
We will see what Toyota does about this. One thing I did not like was the clear, almost toy-like buttons in the interior of the Avalon, and the cheap "metalic" doors on the inside.
 
nsap said:
I don't see the Avalon offering remote vehicle start, XM Satellite Radio, or On Star.

What good are the Avalon's electronics if the knobs to control them fall off.:eek: :lmao:

Yes, I read Auto News once a week when it arrives in my mailbox.
Avalon does have XM Satellite radio. Onstar? No. That's unique to GM as well as remote start. I prefer the keyless start though. Lucurene uses that age old 4 speed right? Hmm... yea ok.

This is one out of how many reviews? This is the only review i've seen that had this occur. Your statement doesn't hold much substance.

Since you get the autonews right from your doorstep, i'm sure you know how well GM is doing right now. The company would not be in the position it is in right now if they took an approach that Honda and Toyota use.

Is this good for Toyota? No. And they need to take this seriously. But I doubt Toyota customers will jump ship to GM over this. I sure wouldn't.
 
Vintalage said:
Avalon does have XM Satellite radio. Onstar? No. That's unique to GM as well as remote start. I prefer the keyless start though. Lucurene uses that age old 4 speed right? Hmm... yea ok.

This is one out of how many reviews? This is the only review i've seen that had this occur. Your statement doesn't hold much substance.

Since you get the autonews right from your doorstep, i'm sure you know how well GM is doing right now. The company would not be in the position it is in right now if they took an approach that Honda and Toyota use.

Is this good for Toyota? No. And they need to take this seriously. But I doubt Toyota customers will jump ship to GM over this. I sure wouldn't.
Of course you prefer keyless start over remote start. Toyota offers it.

My statement was a joke. However, in the case of that review (which is the one we are discussing) it does have substance.

I highly doubt this review has any impact on Toyota (it would if it was a review from Car And Driver or a big mag like that). Now if any Avalon owners experince something like this, then Toyota may have a problem. This may be one review, but the pic BigAl posted and the car he sit in at NYIAS had problems too. What do you say about that>?

Yes, I agree GM screwed themselves. Big deal, you are telling me nothing I don't already know.
 
nsap said:
Of course you prefer keyless start over remote start. Toyota offers it.

My statement was a joke. However, in the case of that review (which is the one we are discussing) it does have substance.

I highly doubt this review has any impact on Toyota (it would if it was a review from Car And Driver or a big mag like that). Now if any Avalon owners experince something like this, then Toyota may have a problem. This may be one review, but the pic BigAl posted and the car he sit in at NYIAS had problems too. What do you say about that>?

Yes, I agree GM screwed themselves. Big deal, you are telling me nothing I don't already know.
I've already responded to Bil Al's post.

I'm glad your aware of GM's standing. I prefer Keyless start because that's what all the Luxury cars are offering. I can easily add remote start later on. I like the idea of just having the key in your pocket, walking up to the door, touching the door handle and before you pull, it unlocks. Hop in, hit the start button and your off.

The Toyota is not the only better buy. The Acura TL is a better buy than the Lucurene. So is the Infiniti G35. Chrysler 300C is as well.
 
I don't see the misaligned panel in this car that familycar.com was given to test... not by much at least:

Image
 
Vintalage said:
I don't see the misaligned panel in this car that familycar.com was given to test... not by much at least:

Image
The car doesnt look bad. Untill you see the sea of silver doors covering everything... And the uneven, mishapen, discolored door trim. You say that one review doesnt matter and that GM is sucking wind. Im sure GM said the same thing back in the 80s.
I would rather have a Lucerne that has cheap plastics that match and fit and a 4 speed auto than an Avalon that looked like that. But thats just me.
 
GMfan2381 said:
The car doesnt look bad. Untill you see the sea of silver doors covering everything... And the uneven, mishapen, discolored door trim. You say that one review doesnt matter and that GM is sucking wind. Im sure GM said the same thing back in the 80s.
I would rather have a Lucerne that has cheap plastics that match and fit and a 4 speed auto than an Avalon that looked like that. But thats just me.
The Avalon's interior is nice, except the center stack. Adding a ton of silver plastic to cover their cheap switchgear is stupid.

When I looked in the Lucerne at the auto show the plastics did not seem cheap to me. HUGE improvement over previous GM vehicles.
 
What a stupid interior in the Avalon...I hope Toyota doesn't fix quality!! Why would a real GM fan hope they do? BOMB AVALON!
 
nsap said:
I don't see the Avalon offering remote vehicle start, XM Satellite Radio, or On Star.

What good are the Avalon's electronics if the knobs to control them fall off.:eek: :lmao:

Yes, I read Auto News once a week when it arrives in my mailbox.
Avalon offers XM Radio. Who cares about the remote start? You have a push button start.
 
griswold44 said:
Avalon offers XM Radio. Who cares about the remote start. You have a push button start.
I was unaware that the Avalon had XM. I didn't see it on Toyota's website.

Toyota owner: "Look, I can start my car by pushing a pretty button."

GM Owner: "Your cool, I can start mine 200 ft. away from my house while you run out in the snow to push your button."

:lmao:
 
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