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The BMW looks like it had a lot more thought put into it's design. Especially from the front. The Optima does have a nicer rear and side profile, though.
The front end is the worst part of the 5er and most BMWs these days (too bulbous w/ droopy or weird headlight shapes).


Are you seriously suggesting the Optima is a better designed car than the 5 series?
Better designed - yes; better engineered, no.


In the same way that some would prefer a McDonald's Big Mac to a fancy dinner at a restaurant, or Justin Bieber to Radiohead. If you want instant visual pizazz, sure, but that tends to get old fast.
Too bad the analogy doesn't work; Peter Schreyer gets paid more than the head of BMW design.

Are you saying that Audi designs are like McDonald's? Since the Optima has the same Teutonic/Bahuaus look of Audi designs, just w/ a more aggressive/sleek bent.

Don't get your panties all in a bunch just b/c Toyota models haven't won design awards (regarding the McDonald's analogy, the Camry would be far more suited - lol).
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
The BMW looks like it's received more sculpting and attention but the end result is still unappealing to my eyes, like a car that was left to melt in the sun.
 
I'm okay with the new BMW front ends but they've been better in the past. And I still like the front end of the 5 better than the Optima.
Well, you're in the minority on that; BMW has gotten a lot of flack for going away from the clean and more masculine looking fronts that predated the E60 5er.

Image


The front of all BMWs should be more like the i8, aggressive looking w/ clean lines and no weird headlight shapes.
 
The front end is the worst part of the 5er and most BMWs these days (too bulbous w/ droopy or weird headlight shapes).




Better designed - yes; better engineered, no.
BMW is a master of automotive design, the majority of premium brands struggle to match BMW, let alone KIA.



Too bad the analogy doesn't work; Peter Schreyer gets paid more than the head of BMW design.
They have to pay him more otherwise he would never work for KIA.

Are you saying that Audi designs are like McDonald's? Since the Optima has the same Teutonic/Bahuaus look of Audi designs, just w/ a more aggressive/sleek bent.
Audis are low, long and wide, they are proportioned excellently, minimalist, and designed to age well. The Optima resembles the Audis (thanks to Schreyer) but it isn't executed nearly as well. Just like a Big Mac may resemble a premium burger, but isn't executed nearly as well.

Don't get your panties all in a bunch just b/c Toyota models haven't won design awards (regarding the McDonald's analogy, the Camry would be far more suited - lol).
Get this through your thick head: I don't give a rat's ass about Toyota models winning design awards. You passionately do about Hyundai, that doesn't mean every one else is down at your level. You're a promoter of corporate Hyundai, I like Lexus cars because they have shiny paint, soft leather and interesting bends in the sheet metal. See the difference? STOP polluting every argument with this tired spin. You do it every time you're backed into a corner to detract from the topic at hand.

The Camry is indeed the McDonald's of the midsize world, the Accord is Burger King. The other competitors are some other fast food chain, maybe KIA is Wendy's or Arby's.
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
Get this through your thick head: I don't give a rat's ass about Toyota models winning design awards. You passionately do about Hyundai, that doesn't mean every one else is down at your level. You're a promoter of corporate Hyundai, I like Lexus cars because they have shiny paint, soft leather and interesting bends in the sheet metal. See the difference? STOP polluting every argument with this tired spin. You do it every time you're backed into a corner to detract from the topic at hand.

I dont understand why you (and others) insist on being so bitter and personally angry at people in this thread over matters of opinion, especially something as subjective as styling.

They're automobiles built by large corporations, not religions, and even the devoutly religious are held to standards of common courtesy.
 
I dont understand why you (and others) insist on being so bitter and personally angry at people in this thread over matters of opinion, especially something as subjective as styling.

They're automobiles built by large corporations, not religions, and even the devoutly religious are held to standards of common courtesy.
I'm not bitter, he's testing my patience. You need patience of steel to deal with YEH.
 
BMW is a master of automotive design, the majority of premium brands struggle to match BMW, let alone KIA.
None of BMW's designers have the pedigree or awards of Peter Schreyer (plus the auto design world would disagree considering the no. of auto awards Kia models have won recently vs. BMW models); and you must be blind to all the criticisms that BMW has gotten for their designs lately (which pains me since I've been a long time BMW driver, but the only BMW that their designers haven't muffed up yet is the 3 Series coupe, which I'm sure will get that awful proboscis that's on the new 3 sedan).

They have to pay him more otherwise he would never work for KIA.
It's not like BMW couldn't have matched the offer, plus Schreyer moved to Kia mostly b/c they gave him a blank slate and more power than any auto designer has ever had to direct the future of an automaker.


Get this through your thick head: I don't give a rat's ass about Toyota models winning design awards.
Sure you don't; but I guess that explains why you are a fan of an automaker that is known to be the king of beige.

The Camry is indeed the McDonald's of the midsize world, the Accord is Burger King. The other competitors are some other fast food chain, maybe KIA is Wendy's or Arby's.
Aside from the fact that Wendy's has now surpassed BK in size, Wendy's and Arby's do make a better burger than McDonalds (just saying).

I'm not bitter, he's testing my patience. You need patience of steel to deal with YEH.
Sure you aren't; just like how your argument that BMW designs lately have been better than Kia's have been another fail.
 
None of BMW's designers have the pedigree or awards of Peter Schreyer (plus the auto design world would disagree considering the no. of auto awards Kia models have won recently vs. BMW models); and you must be blind to all the criticisms that BMW has gotten for their designs lately (which pains me since I've been a long time BMW driver, but the only BMW that their designers haven't muffed up yet is the 3 Series coupe, which I'm sure will get that awful proboscis that's on the new 3 sedan).
KIA makes FWD mainstream cars at relatively budget prices. Schreyer is doing the best he can given what he has to work with, but simply due to cost restrictions no KIA will be better designed than a BMW. Just the RWD proportions of a typical BMW are enough to outshine any KIA.

It's not like BMW couldn't have matched the offer, plus Schreyer moved to Kia mostly b/c they gave him a blank slate and more power than any auto designer has ever had to direct the future of an automaker.
I'm surprised that given how highly Schreyer is regarded that he has been unable to ditch the "Audi/VW" look with his KIA designs and come up with something fresh. Can he only design one style of vehicle? When I look at the Optima, or the Cadenza, I don't really see a "blank slate".


Sure you don't; but I guess that explains why you are a fan of an automaker that is known to be the king of beige.
I'm a fan of the luxury brand with the paint quality on a $30k entry hatchback that would probably outshine the one on the $60k Equus. Speaking of which this has got to be one of the best quality silver paint jobs I've seen (it starts moving at 2:23):


Aside from the fact that Wendy's has now surpassed BK in size, Wendy's and Arby's do make a better burger than McDonalds (just saying).
You've drifted far from the actual point. This is the extent you go to refute a reasonable statement like "KIAs are like Big Macs and BMWs are like premium burgers", leading to an argument over fast food chains. This is why one needs patience of steel to deal with you.

Sure you aren't; just like how your argument that BMW designs lately have been better than Kia's have been another fail.
Not just better, they decimate KIA's designs. Long hoods, minimal overhangs, low, wide stance, wheels at the corners, great glass to steel ratio, beautiful surface sculpting, the list goes on. Of course it's not KIA's fault given pricing.
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
I'll get in on this one.

KIA makes FWD mainstream cars at relatively budget prices. Schreyer is doing the best he can given what he has to work with, but simply due to cost restrictions no KIA will be better designed than a BMW. Just the RWD proportions of a typical BMW are enough to outshine any KIA.
I prefer Mercedes-Benz and Cadillac's sharper, bolder, and more masculine styling. It's true, BMW does exceptionally well with proportions: visual height, visual length, and wheel placement. But the surfacing details, the ones that tend to add cost to production, come across as bulbous, like a car that's been left in the wind tunnel for too long or a bar of chocolate left out in the sun.

The E60, despite being quite garish, at least had some creases and sharp points, some visual feeling of completion where the lines, edges, and panels came together. The F30 appears to have simply rounded off the edges.


So, Kia found a way to make a low-cost car look more expensive, while BMW took the emotion out of 'expensive' styling. For that, I have to give Kia a lot of credit.

I've owned BMWs. I've loved BMWs. My BMW recently saved my life in an accident (BMW even asked if they could use my accident photos in an ad). But today's BMWs, at least visually, don't get my heart beating.


Its all of a matter of opinion; I'm only explaining how my eyes interpret what's in front of me.
 
Look, I will settle this "discussion" right now, and after this post, nobody has to argue any more.

The 1959, 1961, and 1962 Cadillacs were the best looking cars made. All else that followed just copied features of them that the mush-brained designers stole because they were too drunk to think of anything original.

Wait, add Bucky Fuller's Dymaxion to that list.

OK, let's move on now, nothing here remaining to discuss.:rolleyes:
 
I'll get in on this one.



I prefer Mercedes-Benz and Cadillac's sharper, bolder, and more masculine styling. It's true, BMW does exceptionally well with proportions: visual height, visual length, and wheel placement. But the surfacing details, the ones that tend to add cost to production, come across as bulbous, like a car that's been left in the wind tunnel for too long or a bar of chocolate left out in the sun.

The E60, despite being quite garish, at least had some creases and sharp points, some visual feeling of completion where the lines, edges, and panels came together. The F30 appears to have simply rounded off the edges.


So, Kia found a way to make a low-cost car look more expensive, while BMW took the emotion out of 'expensive' styling. For that, I have to give Kia a lot of credit.

I've owned BMWs. I've loved BMWs. My BMW recently saved my life in an accident (BMW even asked if they could use my accident photos in an ad). But today's BMWs, at least visually, don't get my heart beating.


Its all of a matter of opinion; I'm only explaining how my eyes interpret what's in front of me.
The E60 was definitely a sportier looking car, but I still think the new one looks much more substantial. Yes the danger with that kind of sculpting is that the car can look like a melted marshmallow (especially in white), but in person that problem doesn't seem to be very noticeable.

I think what KIA has done is bring style to a drab segment. If you equate stylishness with "more expensive looking", then you could make your argument. But flash and style itself is not difficult to achieve (if you're willing to make the practical compromises), and it isn't necessarily dictated by the price point. It's also just one component of a well done design. We don't judge how well made music is by how catchy and easy to listen to the song is. The Optima is the equivalent of a catchy pop song. The 5 series may not be as "catchy", but it's a much better executed design and will have much greater lasting power.
 
Excellent review with lots of great pictures. So many reviews lack the detailed pictures of this review. I contest that had the G6 been this good...Pontiac might still be around. I see these all over the place here in San Antonio, TX and they do look very good on the road. I love the driver oriented dash. Had the turbo been available with a manual I would have seriously considered it.
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
The E60 was definitely a sportier looking car, but I still think the new one looks much more substantial. Yes the danger with that kind of sculpting is that the car can look like a melted marshmallow (especially in white), but in person that problem doesn't seem to be very noticeable.

I think what KIA has done is bring style to a drab segment. If you equate stylishness with "more expensive looking", then you could make your argument. But flash and style itself is not difficult to achieve (if you're willing to make the practical compromises), and it isn't necessarily dictated by the price point. It's also just one component of a well done design. We don't judge how well made music is by how catchy and easy to listen to the song is. The Optima is the equivalent of a catchy pop song. The 5 series may not be as "catchy", but it's a much better executed design and will have much greater lasting power.
I see what you mean and can agree with some of it. At the very least, the F30 has a stylish rear end with tail lights that look purposeful. I hope a MCE or the next generation has a nose that's as dramatic and sharp as the new 3-series.
 
I'm a fan of the luxury brand with the paint quality on a $30k entry hatchback that would probably outshine the one on the $60k Equus. Speaking of which this has got to be one of the best quality silver paint jobs I've seen (it starts moving at 2:23):
Funny the $23k Sonata SE has better paint quality than the $72k Mercedes Benz CLS and Hyundai made a decent effort to make that publicly known.
 
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