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No, it's NOT as simple as "either you like it, or you don't"

That's a very primitive way to think. Part of higher thinking is being able to remove one's own likes and dislikes from the equation.

It's sort of like McDonald's chicken nuggets. They're awful. I doubt they're even made out of anything resembling food. But despite being sub-food, I have this crazy love for the damn things and eat them more often than I should! In fact, they're one of only a handful of edibles that I get cravings for, and I duly enjoy dipping those pieces of breaded mystery into my barbecue-flavoured dipping sauce!

It's not rocket science, CJ. You don't have to be Einstein to allow your brain to make this separation. It's no more simply being obective. Subjectively, I love chicken McNuggets, but objectively, I know they're far from "good food."

I don't have a problem with people loving the '57 Chevy... I have a problem with people saying it's a good design. The '57 Chevy is the Chicken McNuggets of Chevrolet's history!
I like the taste of something but know they are bad for me. Again I can still enjoy them whenever I want.

Design has different styles so saying that is bad design is only true if you follow an art 'rule' but that is bs as well because as you say, we have higher thinking ability, so we know art doesn't have rules and is meant to be interpretive.

First its a car so its mean't go from point a to, thats its main design purpose. After that its all subjective. So rating its lines and proportions again can only be done if you slot it into a class of art.
 

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If that is your worst? :lmao:
The worst? Hell naw. You'd know it if I fired my "worst" salvo at you! I've got a cruel streak that thankfully, I'm too softhearted to let manifest.

And I wouldn't throw that "bubble" card on the table too quickly there, bub. Comparing that vinyl-clad, middle-class-whites-only McSubdivision you live in to the richly diverse 'hood my little mieskeits are growing up in is proof in the pudding of who lives in a "bubble" and who doesn't.

My wife's cracking up over here at your suggestion that we're part of that snooty, uppity, Wine & Cheese, hoity-toity crowd, simply because we have good educations, and know that it's proper to wear a dark suit to a funeral, not spaghetti-strap hoochie halter tops or cowboy boots.

I'll keep that "bubble" you speak of in mind when I'm out shooting hoops in the Calliope with my Dad, who relishes in proving to the hoodrats that white men (and an old Jew at that), in fact CAN jump!

I'll keep that "bubble" you speak of in mind when I make that 30-mile trek out of town to eat at the nearest Waffle House.

I'll keep that "bubble" you speak of in mind the next time I join my buddies for a touch football game (we all know how many tenure-track professors are into that!)

I'll keep that "bubble" you speak of in mind when I'm right there on the 50-yard line with my face painted black and gold, rooting for my beloved Saints.

I'll keep that "bubble" you speak of in mind tomorrow when I take my mieskeits to the playground, where they'll romp and cavort with black kids, white kids, creole kids, kids of artists, kids of plumbers, kids from professional parents, and kids of food stamp queens.

You might wanna take a gander out your front window before you play the "bubble" card!

:)
 

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The faintest idea that I am talking about is that hopelessly PC bubble that you cocoon yourself in known as ACADEMIA, THE WORST SMUG CLASS-ORIENTED COMMUNITY IN THE UNIVERSE!
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I agree 100%.

The most smug, arrogant, pretentious pricks I've ever met were the academia types. They are so disconnected from normal Americans, and resent the entire middle class for insert reason here and pretend to be open minded.

The reality is that they are racist pricks just like most of the world, and look down on anyone without a Ph.D or $200K a year income. They are total hypocrites and should be lined up and beaten for their fake compassion. They build a bubble and never step out of it.

This is not an inferiority complex here....these people actually think they are better than you. They actually think they know what's best for you.
 

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The worst? Hell naw. You'd know it if I fired my "worst" salvo at you! I've got a cruel streak that thankfully, I'm too softhearted to let manifest.

And I wouldn't throw that "bubble" card on the table too quickly there, bub. Comparing that vinyl-clad, middle-class-whites-only McSubdivision you live in to the richly diverse 'hood my little mieskeits are growing up in is proof in the pudding of who lives in a "bubble" and who doesn't.

My wife's cracking up over here at your suggestion that we're part of that snooty, uppity, Wine & Cheese, hoity-toity crowd, simply because we have good educations, and know that it's proper to wear a dark suit to a funeral, not spaghetti-strap hoochie halter tops or cowboy boots.

I'll keep that "bubble" you speak of in mind when I'm out shooting hoops in the Calliope with my Dad, who relishes in proving to the hoodrats that white men (and an old Jew at that), in fact CAN jump!

I'll keep that "bubble" you speak of in mind when I make that 30-mile trek out of town to eat at the nearest Waffle House.

I'll keep that "bubble" you speak of in mind the next time I join my buddies for a touch football game (we all know how many tenure-track professors are into that!)

I'll keep that "bubble" you speak of in mind when I'm right there on the 50-yard line with my face painted black and gold, rooting for my beloved Saints.

I'll keep that "bubble" you speak of in mind tomorrow when I take my mieskeits to the playground, where they'll romp and cavort with black kids, white kids, creole kids, kids of artists, kids of plumbers, kids from professional parents, and kids of food stamp queens.

You might wanna take a gander out your front window before you play the "bubble" card!

:)
Me thinks he dost protest too much?

There are so many wrong assertions you just made I do not know where to begin, so I won't bother. Mentioning names, races, and colors of my neighbors seems beyond tacky to me. Let's just say it is not the vanilla sky you wish it was to make your argument. LOL.

We did replace the siding on our twenty year old house recently. McMansions are around Huntsville and Madison. Good luck finding two houses that are matched in my neighborhood. You would also get big laughs at the trailer and Rustmaro up on blocks on the side of it too within a block of our "sub-division".

Do you do all of this extracurricular stuff because your professional life is the PC bubble as described? Hmmmm.....

Catholics and Jews are both pretty good at guilt induced actions.

So after trashing the song and the love of the 1957 Chevy do you have any other insights into the video?
 

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t-rex aside...

I think I've seen this before but it's a good video. The sad thing is that GM didn't live up to that promise...they didn't lead style, they didn't drive innovation, they didn't take back their 50% market share...

...ok maybe the market share thing was a little out of reach, but the video did basically say the world used to follow GM because GM was always on top of technology, style, value...

...but since 2002 we received stuff like this:



Did the G3 bring technology, style, or value?




Did this generation Malibu bring technology, style, or value? Or any other reason to buy it instead of something else?


It's great to be able to rile up your entire workforce, from accountants to line workers, and make them feel deep inside that they can bring GM back to greatness. But the company didn't follow through.
 

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F14, how dare you disparage those two technotastic, stylistically, valified pieces of auto awesomenacity!

At least you did not bring up the Aztek again. You would not believe how many of those roll around Huntsville. Somebody loves them.
 

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So after trashing the song and the love of the 1957 Chevy do you have any other insights into the video?
Okay, I've had my fun pickin' on ya!

The video sucked because it was overwhelmingly 1950s garbage (and I don't mean just GM; 1950s cars were horrible everywhere), and not enough focus on the era where GM really kicked ass: the 1960s.

It was also far too Chevy/Caddy-centric, with barely any note made of other GM marques, though I did see a good number of classic Opels (again, all 1950s models) scattered about.

Figures though that GM would focus primarily on its two most white trash divisions...

(sorry I couldn't resist! :p:)
 

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Okay, I've had my fun pickin' on ya!

The video sucked because it was overwhelmingly 1950s garbage (and I don't mean just GM; 1950s cars were horrible everywhere), and not enough focus on the era where GM really kicked ass: the 1960s.

It was also far too Chevy/Caddy-centric, with barely any note made of other GM marques, though I did see a good number of classic Opels (again, all 1950s models) scattered about.

Figures though that GM would focus primarily on its two most white trash divisions...

(sorry I couldn't resist! :p:)

You are dead on as to the lack of GM's divisions being represented. Is there such a thing as a Classic GMC? Are they all viewed as classic rebadges? I do not know.
 

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You are dead on as to the lack of GM's divisions being represented. Is there such a thing as a Classic GMC? Are they all viewed as classic rebadges? I do not know.
No kiddin', I was thinking specifically of GMC, and that huge, but brilliantly-engineered GMC V6 of the 61-66 era. It's a shame the market was so obsessed with V8s. The GMC V6 was the perfect truck engine.

It's a shame that GM's most advanced products ended up in the bin because the market consisted of nothing but crude rednecks who glorified the V8 as though no other type of engine existed.

What about the brilliant Buick aluminum [sic] V8, which got fobbed off to Rover because it couldn't be punched out to 600 cubes? Leyland Australia, and later Range Rover, showed the true and amazing potential that basic block design had. The 35 years it powered various Rover products shows what a good unit it was.

Or the super-smooth Pontiac OHC "Sprint Six", whose only technical bugaboo was poor lubrication — the result of using a standard oil pump, which didn't have the oomph to squirt oil all the way up there to them high-mounted camshafts. It was so much lighter than Pontiac's heavy, ponderous V8 that it endowed Firebirds and Tempests with much nimbler handling. Of course the redneck jackass public didn't care. Just like the immature, pathetic little boys that they were, the typical Pontiac customer only wanted to go fast in a straight line to impress his friends.

What about the 73-75 Grand Am? GM put serious effort into "internationalizing" the car, going so far as to get rid of Detroit nasty features like foot-operated dimmers and dashboard-mounted wipers. Pontiac put a lot of effort into tuning the handling to European standards, which it fell short of, but was still an exponential improvement over the regular sloppy A-cars. Nobody cared. The press didn't give a rat's ass and neither did the buying public.

Ya know we blast GM sometimes for failing to innovate, but look at how many good ideas GM had to throw away because the dumbass, locked-in-perpetual-adolescence average domestic buyer wasn't interested.

What's even more sad is that even today, very few people have any interest in these three wonderful powerplants that GM created. No they don't remember this, but they'll go out of their way to make sure that apogee of white trashdom: the Regal Grand National, doesn't fade from history.

Maybe that's why GM eventually gave up. They figured if they made good cars, nobody would buy 'em, so chose to produce what the American public wanted: crap.
 

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F14, how dare you disparage those two technotastic, stylistically, valified pieces of auto awesomenacity!

At least you did not bring up the Aztek again. You would not believe how many of those roll around Huntsville. Somebody loves them.
careful, I almost did :D


and now we continue with t-rex's rant on American tastes
 

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It's a shame that GM's most advanced products ended up in the bin because the market consisted of nothing but crude rednecks who glorified the V8 as though no other type of engine existed.
The thing I loved about GM in its heyday was it kept trying advanced products even when it was clear that they were a tough sell.

The Corvair -- especially the second gen -- offered a fully-independent suspension and turbocharging when that was cutting-edge stuff for an affordable small car.

That was GM's answer to the Falcon and the Mustang -- nicely styled by wholely conventional cars.

Guess which one was the sales success?

The Olds Toronado was another example: GM looks at the success of Ford's Thunderbird and instead of creating a 'me-to' car, it creates a platform capable of FWD or RWD, with the FWD version having a completely flat floor. In bench seat versions, this meant that the big Toronado coupe could reasonablly happily fit six people. Plus it offered better handling than a lot of its contemporaries, despite running a considerable amount of V8 torque through the bias-plied front tires.

With the CERV experimental vehicles, GM was playing with mid-engined, AWD, high horsepower cars back in the early 60s -- incredible.
 

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The '57 Chevy Bel Aire was an exciting car that was so much better looking than the boring '55. It was fun to drive and fun to be seen in. In fact the cars of the mid to late '50's were among the greatest GM ever made.

Still, it was a shame that in the '60's, GM brought out some of the most bloated "elephantine" cars to replace the gems of the mid-50's. :p:

There is nothing sweeter than the sound of a god old American V8, unless you're listening to the sound of a Packard/Rolls Royce Merlin engine in a P-51 Mustang.
 
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