[tripowergto Jan2003]

My guess is they used to have some sort of EV plans for Grand River plant which aren't happening. The idea was first Camaro would go then CT4/CT5 then convert to EV. Just my guess.

Maybe the rumored Vette SUV gets built at Grand River? How about a RWD/AWD Buick sedan as others have suggested?

All the manufacturers are scrambling to rearrange their ICE/EV plans and now it looks like Blazer ICE is back for 2026.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2025/05/there-will-be-an-ice-2026-chevy-blazer-as-gm-changes-plans/

Looks like LGX V6 production will also be extended. Nice.

 

[BlackGTP]

Yes, volume.
Like we've talked about before, why kill the camaro which doubled the units that plant produced?? GM could have built a couple oddball vehicles like the Juke or Cube off the Cruze platform too. It's like they have a all or nothing mentality.

I am interested to hear what GM's reasoning for that was. My conjecture is GM is committed to rebuilding Cadillac and having cars like the CT4 & 5 help with that where the Camaro is NOT crucial to Chevy's image. They are willing to take a loss on the CT4/5 but not with the Camaro. Maybe their cutting the Camaro is telling us the Camaro volume + CT4/5 still wasn't enough to generate profits, and GM generates less loss with the elimination of the Camaro.

 

[ChrisNJ]

Good for Caddy. Great cars and great value compared to the others. we shopped all of them.
IMO, the next version of these great CT4-5's needs to be a little wider. They will then gain more market share.
it was my only complaint on my ATS, and still is on our current CT4 BW.
And I'm not big at 5-8, 190lbs.
I enjoyed the 300 much more from a ****pit standpoint.

 

[tripowergto Jan2003]

I am interested to hear what GM's reasoning for that was. My conjecture is GM is committed to rebuilding Cadillac and having cars like the CT4 & 5 help with that where the Camaro is NOT crucial to Chevy's image. They are willing to take a loss on the CT4/5 but not with the Camaro. Maybe their cutting the Camaro is telling us the Camaro volume + CT4/5 still wasn't enough to generate profits, and GM generates less loss with the elimination of the Camaro.

The Gen6 Camaro was produced for 9 model years. It had a huge price increase when it was introduced late 2015. If it wasn't fully amortized then the bean counters are to blame. I believe it was killed off to help CAFE #'s and to appease the former administration/green brigade. Fully loaded ZL1's were nearing $100k. There had to be profit in those cars.

 

[yello430]

I always understood a coupe to be two door vehicle, as the predominant characteristic. As opposed to a four door, which could be a hardtop or a sedan. But never a coupe. There were two door sedans back when hardtops were more prevalent. In that context 'sedan' refers to the B pillar and window frames.

Then 20 years ago Benz comes out with a low slung sedan and calls it a coupe. Which insults everyone's intelligence, but they mostly got a pass for that.

If it has four doors rather than two doors, it's not a coupe.

And they borrowed the idea from the '96 Grand Prix which Coupe & Sedan shared the same roof, decklid, windshield and front end sheetmetal. 4 dr Coupe indeed.

 

[NHRATA01]

Looks like LGX V6 production will also be extended. Nice.

What is that going in?

Believe it's only in the vestigial Blazer and XT5/6 at this point.

 

[ksr]

And they borrowed the idea from the '96 Grand Prix which Coupe & Sedan shared the same roof, decklid, windshield and front end sheetmetal. 4 dr Coupe indeed.
View attachment 74793 View attachment 74794

One of the rare times that I preferred the sedan to the coupe.

 

[1958carnut]

And they borrowed the idea from the '96 Grand Prix which Coupe & Sedan shared the same roof, decklid, windshield and front end sheetmetal. 4 dr Coupe indeed.
View attachment 74793 View attachment 74794

That was one of the better looking sedans of the time I think.

 

[yello430]

After the first press day at the NAIAS in '96 where we debuted the '96 GP there were a swarm of Germans crawling all over the GP Sedan on the show stand. I learned later they were Mercedes engineers. Couldn't figure out why Mercedes would care about a lowly Pontiac Grand Prix. Several yrs later the Mercedes CLS was shown at the Geneva Show. Imagine that.

 

[mgescuro]

A5 is replacing both A4 + A5, which is why you see the drop off.

For now. Audi reversed course because they finally realized that it was a stupid change in their nomenclature.
But as far as I can tell, the "A4" as we've known it, is dead.

 

[BlackGTP]

The Gen6 Camaro was produced for 9 model years. It had a huge price increase when it was introduced late 2015. If it wasn't fully amortized then the bean counters are to blame. I believe it was killed off to help CAFE #'s and to appease the former administration/green brigade. Fully loaded ZL1's were nearing $100k. There had to be profit in those cars.

As an accountant I have to correct you

The costs will be fully amortized no matter how few they sell. You need to turn your anger to Sales & Marketing - they'd be the ones who come up with the sales volume projection which makes the business case to produce the vehicle. They say over 5 years 500,000 Camaro's will be sold and accounting takes that and says "we will have $XXX in costs, our sales price will need to be at least $XXX to cover those costs at 500,000 units. Then only 250k units are sold and the vehicle bleeds cash and the Camaro gets canceled.

I've no doubt $100k ZL1's were profitable - it's the cheaper ones that caused profitability issues.

If GM was making money with the Camaro I very much doubt they'd have canceled it.

 

[BlackGTP]

After the first press day at the NAIAS in '96 where we debuted the '96 GP there were a swarm of Germans crawling all over the GP Sedan on the show stand. I learned later they were Mercedes engineers. Couldn't figure out why Mercedes would care about a lowly Pontiac Grand Prix. Several yrs later the Mercedes CLS was shown at the Geneva Show. Imagine that.

Funny - that generation Grand Prix is what popped into my mind when I was reading the "four door coupe" comments. I think that generation of Grand Prix was the first time I ever thought the four-door version looked better than the two door. I do remember GM touting the "coupe look" on the four door GP.

 

[sfbreh]

Wow - BMW has a massive 41% of the market combining the 3 and 4 Series.

The Audi A4 used to be like ants around my area - everywhere. Now they barely sell any. Very stodgy looking to me. Even the current A5 doesn't knock my socks off like the older generations did.

Go Cadillac! I'd love it to get a few more sales and take the spot above from Lexus.

Audi has really lost a lot of its shine. They were at the top of their game when they got hit with Dieselgate, and then their next gen models did poorly everything the previous Audis did right.

They have no TT, no R8, and their design language took a nosedive from simple and elegant to tasteless tech nerd. The supposed A9 was cancelled, I think we’re still waiting on a Q9, and now there’s no A7.

Mercedes is a travesty. The new X3 is one of the ugliest cars I’ve ever seen. BMW’s new design language better be good—then again, money doesn’t buy taste.

I do think if Cadillac executes CT4/5 replacements to the level that they’ve executed since Lyriq, they’re in a really good spot to gain market share. Hopefully they put real leather seats in their budget, though.

 

[BlackGTP]

Audi has really lost a lot of its shine. They were at the top of their game when they got hit with Dieselgate, and then their next gen models did poorly everything the previous Audis did right.

They have no TT, no R8, and their design language took a nosedive from simple and elegant to tasteless tech nerd. The supposed A9 was cancelled, I think we’re still waiting on a Q9, and now there’s no A7.

Mercedes is a travesty. The new X3 is one of the ugliest cars I’ve ever seen. BMW’s new design language better be good—then again, money doesn’t buy taste.

I do think if Cadillac executes CT4/5 replacements to the level that they’ve executed since Lyriq, they’re in a really good spot to gain market share. Hopefully they put real leather seats in their budget, though.

Agreed - this is Cadillac's big chance to gain get seen in the luxury world. As you said, Audi/VW is taking it on the chin from dieselgate, declining market share in Europe and China and a host of other problems. BMW and Mercedes both seem to be struggling with how to navigate the world of electrification with "the uglier the better" BMW mantra and Mercedes reminds me of an old man wandering around lost. The German's are still the dominant luxury game in town, but I think they did leave the door open a little for non-German brands to make some headway.

 

[Murrow]

I've never been a huge BMW guy, but I keep getting a social media ad for this specific M4 Comp at a local dealer, and it gets my attention every time! If I were building one, it might end up just like this one. I still hate the front end, but I really like the rest of it. At $104k, I won't be getting one. If I could bring myself to spend that kind of money on a car, I'd probably buy a Blackwing.

 

[Robert1969]

I've never been a huge BMW guy, but I keep getting a social media ad for this specific car at a local dealer, and it gets my attention every time! If I were building one, it might end up just like this one. I still hate the front end, but I really like the rest of it. At $104k, I won't be getting one. If I could bring myself to spend that kind of money on a car, I'd probably buy a Blackwing.

View attachment 74796

View attachment 74798
View attachment 74800

I remember when Motor Trend compared the Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing vs an M4 Competition because they already knew a regular M3 or M4 couldn’t hang with the CT4-V Blackwing.

 

[JustinChase]

I am interested to hear what GM's reasoning for that was. My conjecture is GM is committed to rebuilding Cadillac and having cars like the CT4 & 5 help with that where the Camaro is NOT crucial to Chevy's image. They are willing to take a loss on the CT4/5 but not with the Camaro. Maybe their cutting the Camaro is telling us the Camaro volume + CT4/5 still wasn't enough to generate profits, and GM generates less loss with the elimination of the Camaro.

The CT4/CT5 are crucial to Cadillac's image, but the Camaro isn't crucial to Chevys!?

Lansing barely built/sold 20,000 cars in 2024, about 1/3rd of what that plant did in 2023, GM is redefining under-utilized.

As an accountant I have to correct you

The costs will be fully amortized no matter how few they sell. You need to turn your anger to Sales & Marketing - they'd be the ones who come up with the sales volume projection which makes the business case to produce the vehicle. They say over 5 years 500,000 Camaro's will be sold and accounting takes that and says "we will have $XXX in costs, our sales price will need to be at least $XXX to cover those costs at 500,000 units. Then only 250k units are sold and the vehicle bleeds cash and the Camaro gets canceled.

I've no doubt $100k ZL1's were profitable - it's the cheaper ones that caused profitability issues.

If GM was making money with the Camaro I very much doubt they'd have canceled it.

If the cheap Camaro isn't "variable profit positive" then just build/sell the higher margin units.

 

[BlackGTP]

The CT4/CT5 are crucial to Cadillac's image, but the Camaro isn't crucial to Chevys!?

Lansing barely built/sold 20,000 cars in 2024, about 1/3rd of what that plant did in 2023, GM is redefining under-utilized.



If the cheap Camaro isn't "variable profit positive" then just build/sell the higher margin units.

GM isn't trying to rebuild Chevy's image where they are trying to do so with Cadillac. Camaro certainly has huge brand recognition, but I don't see that it is crucial to Chevy as a brand - you'll have to sell me on how the Camaro is crucial to Chevy's image. Maybe "crucial" is to strong of a word, but I think the CT4/5 are very important to building Cadillac's image, especially the BW's and V's.

It's easy to build more high-end versions, but can they sell them? And if they are just going to sell a lot of high-end versions how does that impact CAFE requirements and therefore sales of the Silverado where all the profits are generated? And is that also going to cannibalize Corvette/CT4/5 Blackwing sales? I get it that a big chunk of the Camaro buyers may not necessarily cross-shop the Vette/CT4&5, but all of those Camaro customers went somewhere.

And don't forget what happens when you stop selling those low-end Camaros - fixed costs of the production line and plant remain the same (building depreciation, etc). So instead of allocating those costs over 50,000 vehicles a year you now have only 10,000 vehicles a year to allocate those costs over - overnight your per unit cost goes way up and it is possible those high-end versions don't make as much profit as you might think.

 

[bmwboy2007]

The CT4/CT5 are crucial to Cadillac's image, but the Camaro isn't crucial to Chevys!?

Lansing barely built/sold 20,000 cars in 2024, about 1/3rd of what that plant did in 2023, GM is redefining under-utilized.

If the cheap Camaro isn't "variable profit positive" then just build/sell the higher margin units.

Chevrolet is the volume brand, and isn't in need of Camaro to define the brand. They have Corvette for that.

GM isn't trying to rebuild Chevy's image where they are trying to do so with Cadillac. Camaro certainly has huge brand recognition, but I don't see that it is crucial to Chevy as a brand - you'll have to sell me on how the Camaro is crucial to Chevy's image. Maybe "crucial" is to strong of a word, but I think the CT4/5 are very important to building Cadillac's image, especially the BW's and V's.

It's easy to build more high-end versions, but can they sell them? And if they are just going to sell a lot of high-end versions how does that impact CAFE requirements and therefore sales of the Silverado where all the profits are generated? And is that also going to cannibalize Corvette/CT4/5 Blackwing sales? I get it that a big chunk of the Camaro buyers may not necessarily cross-shop the Vette/CT4&5, but all of those Camaro customers went somewhere.

And don't forget what happens when you stop selling those low-end Camaros - fixed costs of the production line and plant remain the same (building depreciation, etc). So instead of allocating those costs over 50,000 vehicles a year you now have only 10,000 vehicles a year to allocate those costs over - overnight your per unit cost goes way up and it is possible those high-end versions don't make as much profit as you might think.

ABsolutely true. If anything, Chevrolet should be priortizing increased production of low price Camaros, if the objective is to amortize tooling costs. Of course building them won't assure selling them. High powered salesmen can make the difference there.

Cadillac needs to compete in that hotly contested class of vehicles from Benz / BMW with ICE. And Cadilac very much wants to be thought of at the same time anyone thinks of either of the other two.

 

[BlackGTP]

Chevrolet is the volume brand, and isn't in need of Camaro to define the brand. They have Corvette for that.



ABsolutely true. If anything, Chevrolet should be priortizing increased production of low price Camaros, if the objective is to amortize tooling costs. Of course building them won't assure selling them. High powered salesmen can make the difference there.

Cadillac needs to compete in that hotly contested class of vehicles from Benz / BMW with ICE. And Cadilac very much wants to be thought of at the same time anyone thinks of either of the other two.

100% agree!

And the most important part is GM wants and needs to develop Cadillac as a strong revenue stream, so they aren't 100% reliant on big trucks. One day the foreign competition might crack the full-sized pickup market, and GM will be up a creek without a paddle. That's the crux of why I think GM is willing to keep producing the CT4 & 5 yet discontinued the Camaro.

Or, I could be totally wrong - just my thoughts on why they are doing something that doesn't appear to make sense at first glance.