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DETROIT -- Pontiac will add a small sport wagon for the 2006 model year, built on the same platform as the 2005 Chevrolet Equinox.

Supplier sources said General Motors will build the Pontiac at the CAMI Automotive plant in Ingersoll, Ontario, a joint venture between GM and Suzuki Motor Corp. They said a similar Suzuki vehicle is likely for the 2007 model year. A GM spokesman declined to comment.

The vehicles will use GM's Theta architecture, which debuted on the Saturn Vue. It is used for front- and all-wheel-drive unibody vehicles. The Vue has a $17,495 base price, including freight, and the Equinox starts at $21,560.

The new vehicles could bring the underutilized CAMI plant close to its full capacity of about 200,000 units annually. GM expects to build 100,000 or more Equinoxes there.

Kevin Brooke, chairman of Canadian Auto Workers Local 88 at CAMI, said the union has not received word of GM's plans. But he said Equinox production would use only about half of the plant, which formerly built the Chevrolet Tracker and Suzuki Vitara small SUVs, and the Chevrolet Metro and Suzuki Swift subcompacts.


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I hear that GM plans a version for Buick, Cadillac, GMC, Hummer, Holden, Saab, Daewoo, Suzuki, Isuzu, Fiat, Opel and Vauxhaul. Lutz said that he is convinced that between grill design and suspensions, each version will be completely unique vehicles!

Someone needs to find a vaccine for this contagious, "every-division-needs-a-version-of-every-platform" virus.
 

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Originally posted by tgagneguam@Mar 1 2004, 01:57 PM
I hear that GM plans a version for Buick, Cadillac, GMC, Hummer, Holden, Saab, Daewoo, Suzuki, Isuzu, Fiat, Opel and Vauxhaul. Lutz said that he is convinced that between grill design and suspensions, each version will be completely unique vehicles!

Someone needs to find a vaccine for this contagious, "every-division-needs-a-version-of-every-platform" virus.
:rolleyes: This better not be true... otherwise Lutz is gonna kill GM with yet more rebadged nightmares
 

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I WAS WRONG. I just assumed the Beancounting/Suits at GM wanted to kill Lutz. They did something worse, they infected him with their virus. They will never learn.
 

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I'm not sure this is as bad as you guys think. Pontiac does not need an SUV IMHO, but it sure a heck could use a sportswagen of some kind -- one that builds on the audience it has created with the Vibe, but a little bigger.

Since this is a car-based platform, it is possible Pontiac will launch a cool, FWD/AWD sportswagen with the option of the 240 hp 3.5.

That would fit the Pontiac brand and fill a hole that exists for Vibe owners who like the concept, but need more room.

On the other hand, if all it is is a rebadged Equinox, well, I don't think that's a great idea.
 

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Originally posted by tgagneguam@Mar 1 2004, 01:57 PM
I hear that GM plans a version for Buick, Cadillac, GMC, Hummer, Holden, Saab, Daewoo, Suzuki, Isuzu, Fiat, Opel and Vauxhaul.  Lutz said that he is convinced that between grill design and suspensions, each version will be completely unique vehicles!

Someone needs to find a vaccine for this contagious, "every-division-needs-a-version-of-every-platform" virus.
Now, wait a second. Platform sharing is the only way to go forward in today's world. If GM did a special platform for every vehicle, we might all have a great time enjoying new GM vehicles for about 10 years. Then the company would go belly up, bled dry by overspending in pursuit of meaningless differentiation.

Platform sharing can be done well. Please advise: does anyone have complaints about the Corvette/XLR platform sharing? I didn't think so. Are the Equinox and Vue easily confused? No. Are the Pontiac G6, Chevy Malibu and Saab 9-3 inadequately differentiated? What, you mean they're related? (I will confess distress at the old-fashioned slap-on-a-grill and change-the-hubcaps strategy theyr'e following with the TrailBlazer and its cohorts.)

Chill, guys. This Pontiac is going to have a personality all its own, never fear.
 

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The new vehicles could bring the underutilized CAMI plant close to its full capacity of about 200,000 units annually. GM expects to build 100,000 or more Equinoxes there.
Brought to you by: The folks at GM who Badge & Grille engineered the "Crossover Sport Vans"!

Heaven forbid that GM make a single vehicle popular enough so its plants are not underutilized... :rolleyes: Toyota - Sienna, Honda - Odyssey, Nissan - Quest, GM - Terazza, SV6, Uplander, Relay, ad nauseum.

One clone is acceptable. But 2, 3, 4....ugh.

I wonder if it will get:

A. The 'rockin' 3.4L V6, and not the new 3.5
B. A Honda engine

<_<

The irony is that the Honda engine would probably suit the 'sport wagon' idea better, but I won't be buying one. Geez, then we'd have a Toyota wagon, and a Honda-powered sport wagon (not to mention a Daewoo-powered mini wagon as the Pontiac Wave in Canada). Remember the days when Pontiacs had their own engines....and they were cool? :(

But I'm getting ahead of myself. Who knows what engine GM will use, but if the past is anything to go by, expect the "sporty" 3.4L.... That would be the easiest and most Bean Counter Friendly path.
 

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i was watching a thing last night about Harley Earl, towards the end it mentioned that his philosophy on similiar styling was that each division should have its own disctinct character to make it stand out on its own, but that there should be some similiarity to show they are still part of the same GM family. just a thought.
 

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i think i'll wait and see what this thing is all about before i call it a flop. no, a rebadged equinox wouldn't be worthwhile, but the fact that they're calling it a sportwagon leads me to beleve it won't be a rebadge. and yeah, there are some good and some bad engines to choose from... but i'll hope for the best. a step-up from the vibe is a great idea... since the aztek is probably headed for the chopping block.
 

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Originally posted by cyboexpo2002@Mar 1 2004, 02:18 PM

:rolleyes: This better not be true... otherwise Lutz is gonna kill GM with yet more rebadged nightmares
I was being facetious [with respect to every GM division getting a version], folks.

And I agree with you, AMcA, on platform sharing, though it seems like when it's done in the Lansing CTS/STS/SRX sort of way, it works better. When it's done in the Doraville Terraza/Uplander/Relay/SV6 sort of way, it works poorly.

When you have flexibility of manufacturing, like at Lansing, you don't need to prostitute an idea out to every division just to fill up a plant's production schedule. You see, the CAMI plant could be filled without having to make a Pontiac version of the theta platform if the plant engaged in more flexible manufacturing. In that way, you would keep operating the plant at 100% efficiency, and Chevrolet's cool Equinox does not loose its luster through clones at other divisions. You also maintain pricing power in the same way. I guess lessons learned at Lansing have been quickly forgotten.

I say the above because I'm skeptical that the Pontiac version will be a unique vehicle. Nope, I haven't seen any pictures of it, and my criticism may be way premature, but I'm still skeptical. The Terraza/Uplander/Relay/SV6 and the Trailblazer/Envoy/Bravada/Rainier/upcoming 9-7x are hard to ignore.
 

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Originally posted by paul8488@Mar 1 2004, 11:21 AM
i think i'll wait and see what this thing is all about before i call it a flop. no, a rebadged equinox wouldn't be worthwhile, but the fact that they're calling it a sportwagon leads me to beleve it won't be a rebadge.
I hope you are right, Paul. But remember that the "Crossover SPORT Vans" are basically Ventures with .1 liters of displacement added and some suspension modifications, and the 'sporty' Monte Carlo shares mechanicals with the Impala ---- in other words, I've been burned too many times to expect too much (as tgagneguam points out).

On the other hand, GM could use everything from the VUE Redline, and give it a 3.9L V6.....that would be hot. But expensive....and then what would replace the Aztek in the rental fleets? Maybe a down trim 3.5L powered version without all of the do-dads or AWD would be OK.

But the same friggin' 3.4L old-design value V6 from the Equinox for Pontiac's "Sport Wagon" would stink so royally that it would require a long Rant for me to vent.
 

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Damn guys, chill out for a minute. The Equinox wasn't a rebaged Vue, so I highly doubt this new Pontiac will be a rebadge of either the two SUV's. Its just sharing the baisc architecture just like every other car company does or will be doing. Lets leave our brand engineering coments with the ones that are actually affected: new CSV's, full size trucks, and the new small trucks.
 

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I think all of you are missing the point here.
GM did a good job of changing the equinox from its vue sister right? So Im sure that they would do the same for pontiac. Problem arises here. They are making another sports wagon based of a small car based suv platform. Why, oh tell me why. SUV does not equal wagon. Why would they base this off that?
I dont see this going anywhere. You guys are too worried about interiors and chassis sharing that your missing the actual product. ITS A FUGGIN FWD SUV WITH A WEAK ENGINE. This is NOT what Pontiac needs. Why makes this, when you can just go get a dodge magnum wagon that IMO looks 1000000000238403843 times meaner then any vue or equinox suv. And it has a v8 hemi engine pushing 345hp. Why would I want a "wagon" thats more of an SUV that doesnt handle well, has horrible engine power, and doesnt fit the sports or wagon segment. Screw the chassis... how about the idea.

BAD PONTIAC, now make one based of a Zeta chassis and make it more of a wagon then an SUV. Like the SRX for pontiac. Sporty handling, powerful engines, and RWD or AWD. Holden does it, Caddy does it....dodge is doing it...
HELLO, WAKE THE FAWK UP!!
I said it once, and I will say it a thousands times, Zeta is key to the progression of GM.
 

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The Equinox wasn't a rebaged Vue, so I highly doubt this new Pontiac will be a rebadge of either the two SUV's.
and

I think all of you are missing the point here.
GM did a good job of changing the equinox from its vue sister right?
But they didn't do a good job differentiating the 4 CSV vans coming out.

And they did a rather poor job differentiating the 5 (or is it 6) Trailblazer clones.

Who knows what they have planned for a Ponitac version of the Equinox?
 

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Originally posted by bigals87z28@Mar 1 2004, 05:57 PM
You guys are too worried about interiors and chassis sharing that your missing the actual product. ITS A FUGGIN FWD SUV WITH A WEAK ENGINE. This is NOT what Pontiac needs. Why makes this, when you can just go get a dodge magnum wagon that IMO looks 1000000000238403843 times meaner then any vue or equinox suv. And it has a v8 hemi engine pushing 345hp. Why would I want a "wagon" thats more of an SUV that doesnt handle well, has horrible engine power, and doesnt fit the sports or wagon segment. Screw the chassis... how about the idea.
well i guess some people DO think it's a good idea. i have no use for a hemi powered anything... i drive waaaaaaaay too much... couldn't afford the gas... or insurance... or vehicle, for that matter. i'd much rather have a sport wagon... something not quite as tall as an SUV but with a bit of room, at a decent price and with decent economy. i think the idea is great... though it's wide open as to whether or not they screw this idea up.

i can't think of a rebadged vehicle that'd do, but platform sharing is different. perhaps pontic should have a powerhouse sport wagon to meet the magnum had-on, but i also think pontiac'll do well with this theta platform vehicle... as long as it's not an equinox with a twin-port grille!
 

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Originally posted by paul8488+Mar 1 2004, 07:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (paul8488 @ Mar 1 2004, 07:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-bigals87z28@Mar 1 2004, 05:57 PM
You guys are too worried about interiors and chassis sharing that your missing the actual product.  ITS A FUGGIN FWD SUV WITH A WEAK ENGINE.  This is NOT what Pontiac needs.  Why makes this, when you can just go get a dodge magnum wagon that IMO looks 1000000000238403843 times meaner then any vue or equinox suv.  And it has a v8 hemi engine pushing 345hp.  Why would I want a "wagon" thats more of an SUV that doesnt handle well, has horrible engine power, and doesnt fit the sports or wagon segment.  Screw the chassis... how about the idea.
well i guess some people DO think it's a good idea. i have no use for a hemi powered anything... i drive waaaaaaaay too much... couldn't afford the gas... or insurance... or vehicle, for that matter. i'd much rather have a sport wagon... something not quite as tall as an SUV but with a bit of room, at a decent price and with decent economy. i think the idea is great... though it's wide open as to whether or not they screw this idea up.

i can't think of a rebadged vehicle that'd do, but platform sharing is different. perhaps pontic should have a powerhouse sport wagon to meet the magnum had-on, but i also think pontiac'll do well with this theta platform vehicle... as long as it's not an equinox with a twin-port grille! [/b][/quote]
It doesnt have to be hemi powerd, you can get it in V6 and smaller v8 flavor I belive. That should be plenty power for what you need it for. If you dont want a sporty sports wagon, then whats the use of looking at sport wagons at all? Just get an equinox. Thats what im getting at. Lets say they do this and it doent look like either the Vue or Equinox... leave that alone ok... and its a true pontiac, I would want the pontiac one be a lot more sporty then its chevy and saturn sisters. If you dont want that much sport, they make 2 more versions of the same car. Im sure they could make the sports wagon feel very much like a higher SUV like seat hight on the Zeta chassis. There is no reason to make it off this chassis.

and the again with teh CSV's and GMT360's. They seem to sell well I see more of them then I see Ford Explorers. Enough of the badge engineering talk... its driving me crazy.
 

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I'd just like to see the pics of this thing.
A sport "wagon" is a wagon. Isn't that the image ALL of the divisons were trying to get away from when they re-did the minivan's and came out with the "crossover vehicles" like the Vibe and As*tek? :blink:

Maybe the wagon is making a comeback, but until I see an artist rendering or picture posted somewhere, I'll wait and withold my judgement on the "sport" part.

What's going to make it so sporty?
Ground effects kits and giant rear spoilers like the Lancer? Gawd I hope not!!
It would be nice if they are going to actually make an agressive looking vehicle that backs up those looks with some honest to goodness power (like the 240hp 3.9 or something better)?!

Only time will tell.
 

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maybe this would be a good photoshop contest.. "guess the look of pontiacs's new sport wagon". i'll cheat and just enlarge the vibe! :D
 

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Why is everyone assuming that this car is going to look like an SUV? Sharing platform does not equate to sharing ride-height and body style. Couldn't they just build a Maxx type vehicle off of the same chassis, etc? Perhaps I'm out of the loop, but didn't the article state "wagon" not crossover SUV?

I think a sporty wagon is great for Pontiac, providing it is more sporty and less wagon. . .
 
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