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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Gentlemen, the following is a cut 'n paste from dialog held between me and another forum member at Toyotanation forums. I thought it would help clarify any questions you may have here, as well.
Answer this: If Toyota was paying off CR, then why does CR not recommend ANY new Toyotas, and why does CR only put NEW under their predicted reliability?
CR does recommend new model year Toyotas. Just not new Toyota models. Even then, CR added the stipulation that CR will resume recommending future models if Toyota sees a drop in recalls.
Do you really think that Toyota is stupid enough to bribe CR?
Only if CR is run by descendents of St. Augustine, and only if said descendents are Nuns.
If money was being given to CR by Toyota, why wouldn't the negative surveys about the V6 Camry and the 4WD Tundra get overlooked??
Because there was an industry-wide recall on the affected vehicles. For example, the Tundra gets it's "Below Average" rating because of an industry-wide recall on a bad engine camshaft. The Toyota Camry received an industry-wide recall on premature engine sludge on the re-designed drivetrain.
Recalls notwithstanding, other consumer activist agencies were beginning to see quality slips at Toyota; not the least of which was JD Power and asscociates, noting that Toyota Camry quality was significantly compromised in the 2006-2007 model years. Here is your link proving this fact:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...y/Reliability/
There is no way Consumer Reports could have sustained the critisizm that would have resulted if they kept the results of their Toyota Annual Surveys under wraps because there are so many external signals pointing to serious problems in Toyota workmanship as of 2006-2007.

For these very important reasons, CR had to tell the truth. They had to give these two vehicles "Below Average" ratings in reliability. Even the feeblest dullard would be pounding on the doors of Corporate CR asking why these cars aren't being affected in their Annual Surveys by the industry-wide recalls.
Why does the Fusion get high marks if Toyota has CR on the payroll??
The Fusion is quieter than the pre-2008 Accord, more comfortable than the pre-2008 Accord and handles better than both the pre-2008 Accord and Camry. It's also just as reliable, and current pricing makes the car a substantial value over the pre-2008 Accord and Camry. What I would like to know is when will Toyota (and to a lesser extent, Honda) be taken off CR's payroll so cars like the Ford Fusion and Chevrolet Malibu can be put in their rightful second and first respective places? Why is the Ford Focus rated so low?
In years past, I heard the same complaints from Ford, GM, etc. people, but they got unusually quiet when the Fusion got high marks from CR.
Compared to the flaccid Toyota Camry or the rough-riding Accord, to which "high marks" do you refer?
Also, the Chevrolet Malibu is probably the best family car out there (save for the VW Passat). Let's admit it. It's a better car than both the Accord and Camry. Why doesn't CR rate it higher than like fourth or fifth place?
I look forward to you answering my specific questions in the paragraph above.
We as consumers must never be taken advantage of by any organizations that put on the disguise of sheep when in fact it's mere clothing to hide the fact that they really are wolves.
Such is the case with CR.
As wolves, they will disguise themselves in sheep's clothing. You see this clothing every time you flip open any of their magazines, and it looks like this fashion statement:




They may even add on inclement weather gear, like this (shows they're concerned about our health. It also shows they care about the environment that's being destroyed by the greedy capitalist pigs running General Motors):​




Then by bombarding us with fashion that never goes out of style, such as reliability ratings, we're given the impression of darned-near Sainthood. The only thing that's missing is the White Collar:​




Consumer Reports has a level of trust among Americans hitherto unknown. Sad to say, but they're even more trusted than Clergy in this country. Here's proof:
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/har...ex.asp?PID=843
When they have this level of trust, they have more leeway in advancing a certain agenda. This is easy insolong as Consumer Reports can portray the Big Three automakers as greedy capitalist pigs, right? After all, who doesn't like hating on rich, greedy pigs who's only concern is their rich, greedy shareholders?
CR never, ever tells us that GM employs some of the largest and best-paid workers and Union members in the world. Nor will they ever tell us that the Toyota employee, working right next door to Tennessee, is working an hourly wage fit for a burger-flipper at Burger King. The conditions both workers are exposed to are striking. Whereas a GM or Ford employee works to the average tune of $45.00 an hour with a very lucrative pension plan, the conditions at both Toyota and Honda appear to be slavery and labor exploitation in contrast.

Will Consumer Reports ever tell us this fact? No!!! They're too busy advertising for the slave drivers! Sad, but that's the unfair world we live in...
 

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Consumer Reports has a level of trust among Americans hitherto unknown. Sad to say,but they're even more trusted than Clergy in this country. Here's proof:
When they have this level of trust, they have more leeway in advancing a certain agenda. This is easy insolong as Consumer Reports can portray the Big Three automakers as greedy capitalist pigs, right? After all, who doesn't like hating on rich, greedy pigs who's only concern is their rich, greedy shareholders?
CR never, ever tells us that GM employs some of the largest and best-paid workers and Union members in the world. Nor will they ever tell us that the Toyota employee, working right next door to Tennessee, is working an hourly wage fit for a burger-flipper at Burger King. The conditions both workers are exposed to are striking. Whereas a GM or Ford employee works to the average tune of $45.00 an hour with a very lucrative pension plan, the conditions at both Toyota and Honda appear to be slavery and labor exploitation in contrast.

Will Consumer Reports ever tell us this fact? No!!! They're too busy advertising for the slave drivers! Sad, but that's the unfair world we live in...
Sweet another CR thread? You're really onto something.........if people don't believe you, then they can just ask you, right? :rolleyes:

Since we're cutting and pasting from TN, I'll do the same for my reply to your latter paragraph:
I checked out your link.

1) To be honest, I have no idea which of those (that rated lower in a survey than CR) groups = "clergy". Maybe I'm missing something.

2) A person who stamps fenders all day long does not deserve $45 an hour. Let me rephrase, if I were a high school graduate with no college, I'd happily stamp fenders for $45 per hour (who wouldn't?). Why would a business (Ford, GM etc) pay unskilled workers so much money, then cry about "legacy costs" once those workers earned their deserved pensions? Don't you dare try to blame Toyota or Consumer Reports, or ANY one else for that matter.

3) You are a complete jackass to use the term "slave driver", and I actually take offense to that. Every employee that collects a W-2 from an employer filled out an application, and understood what they were doing to get $xx.xx per hour/week/mo etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The "Cabin Air Filters" thread gets not only more replies, but more views than my enlightenment, wisdom and gifted knowledge?
What's wrong with you ppl?
 

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The "Cabin Air Filters" thread gets not only more replies, but more views than my enlightenment, wisdom and gifted knowledge?
What's wrong with you ppl?
It's a conspiracy!
 

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The "Cabin Air Filters" thread gets not only more replies, but more views than my enlightenment, wisdom and gifted knowledge?
What's wrong with you ppl?
Honestly, it's too wordy, and many parts don't make any sense.

You say Consumer Reports is more trusted in America than "Clergy". Then you attempt to prove your claim by providing a link to a survey that has nothing to do with clergy (from what I can tell). I mean, I tried to make sense of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
lol. eurohazard is still trippin' on that clergy remark
lol...
 

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Honestly, it's too wordy, and many parts don't make any sense.

You say Consumer Reports is more trusted in America than "Clergy". Then you attempt to prove your claim by providing a link to a survey that has nothing to do with clergy (from what I can tell). I mean, I tried to make sense of it.
It's a figure of speech. Of course, I only read your quote because nobody really cares what PMC posts so I may be missing something.
 

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Oh, so "clergy" wasn't meant as literal? Jesus, why didn't you just say that PMC?

Half-assing an argument won't help your cause. I am trying to give you constructive criticism college boy! ;)
 

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The "Cabin Air Filters" thread gets not only more replies, but more views than my enlightenment, wisdom and gifted knowledge?
What's wrong with you ppl?
Hey now!

I think my thread is quite informative.
 

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Hey now!

I think my thread is quite informative.
Yes it is! Especially the part where you took my advice. :D

PMC's threads are like Auto Accidents.
You want to avoid them but like any other rubber necker you just have to take a look! ;)
 

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I don't know. It's sort of like observing a rambling senile old man at the park... sad but slightly amusing.

:lmao:LOL!
 

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Why would a business (Ford, GM etc) pay unskilled workers so much money, then cry about "legacy costs" once those workers earned their deserved pensions? Don't you dare try to blame Toyota or Consumer Reports, or ANY one else for that matter.
You don't think the unions had any part in that? Why do you think you don't see those wages in any other un-unionized manufacturing plants? It's not like they (the big 3) had a meeting and said, "You know what, we really need to start paying our laborers at least double what they should be making":confused:
 

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You don't think the unions had any part in that? Why do you think you don't see those wages in any other un-unionized manufacturing plants? It's not like they (the big 3) had a meeting and said, "You know what, we really need to start paying our laborers at least double what they should be making":confused:
You are right....unions are a big part of that ongoing debacle. I didn't mean to let them off the hook. I could have left that part out all together, again it was a post I had in response to PMC's trolling in a Toyota forum. But I chose to just cut and paste it in its entirety. Thanks for bringing the unions up though, because I never did mention them. I was more focussed on why PMC feels the need to drag Toyota and Consumer Reports specifically through the mud for the faults of his favorite brand. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Help! I'm falling, and I can't get up!

 
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