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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
2009 Camry LE vs 2009 Malibu LT
Both are quiet and have bluetooth available


Camry LE
High resale value
High reliability (easy to expect over 200K miles without replacing engine and transmission)
Extended warranties for Camry are cheaper and longer than Malibu because less claims are expected so lower risk to warranty company equals lower premium.
Lots of rear seat room with center armrest
Nice place to store and use portable GPS in lower console without need to unplug and move to hide it
Electroluminescent gauges look upscale
Knee airbags add extra crash safety
Handling not great
PZEV rating adds mandatory extended emissions controls warranty in CA and some other states

Malibu LT
1 year OnStar Turn By Turn navigation (free for 1 year, but clunky to have to call and wait for live operator, delay recalculating after missing a turn because you have the time-wasting extra step of having to verbally confirm to an automated virtual advisor that you really want it to recaclulate and continue on with the route after missing a turn before it will resume the route.
Can't use OnStar navigation when out of the wireless coverage area so you will need a backup portable nav anyway and will need to pay OnStar fees or move to the portable nav full time after 1 year.
No convenient location to store/use a portable GPS, so you will have to unplug it to move it out of view to prevent theft
Tight back seat (don't care that much because back seat won't be used very often)
Radio has RDS station ID song and artist capability
Factory remote starter available for less money than dealer accessory starter for Camry
Factory installed XM radio standard
Household style power outlet available.
Ambient interior lighting is kind of nice.
Unknown resale (probably not great after rental fleet sales increase in a few years)
Unknown reliability and not promising based on near identical Saturn Aurua's history
Disappointing paint color choices for 2009
Aux jack and power port are both in plain view instead of hidden in a compartment so you will have to unlug and hide your mp3 player each time you park to prevent theft.
Has better exterior styling
Very small trunk opening
Trunk lid doesn't pop up with remote like the Camry, it only unlocks and barely cracks open an inch.
1 MPG better fuel economy with 6-speed automatic.
Sportier handling around curves.
Longer standard powertrain warranty.
Possibly less maintenance
Maybe some less expensive parts for out of warranty repairs
 

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The trunk not popping up like a jack in the box is a sign of quality not poor design.

I would say the not great handling is a drawback on the Camry.

Disappointing color choices for 2009?
 

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The trunk not popping up like a jack in the box is a sign of quality not poor design.

I would say the not great handling is a drawback on the Camry.

Disappointing color choices for 2009?
I don't see the trunk opening as an advantage either. My grandparent's old Town Cars always did that and every time it was opened against the wind the wind would about break it off.
 

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The trunk not popping up like a jack in the box is a sign of quality not poor design.

I would say the not great handling is a drawback on the Camry.

Disappointing color choices for 2009?
Exactly. And you know why? Because unlike your typical Camry or Accord with those big, CHEAP c-hinges that crush your luggage, the Malibu (and most GM cars) use compact engineered hinges with gas struts in the gutter area.

Though I do like the trunk popping completely open (such as on my Fleetwood), I more like having the compact hinges with gas struts that let me actually load the trunk up and not work around where the big, stupid C-hinges are going to crush my stuff.

Oh, and as an '08 Malibu owner:
-Back seat is NOT tight. The car is generally narrower than some, but I'm 6'3" and this (and other Epsilons) is one of the few current sedans that actually has a comfortable back seat that has great height and support AND legroom and foot space for real people. No, it isn't lounge worthy like my Fleetwood, but it's better than even a lot of bigger cars in general. Especially in regards to too low, too short, etc. back seats.
-Overall solidity and finish is significantly richer than something like a Camry, which in current iteration has been known for crooked panels, loose interior bits, and rattles. The Malibu is not perfect, as some have commented on things like the door panels, etc. but it's great looking, feels solid and refined, and has nice storage. And GREAT seats.
-The combination of a supple ride, firm and sure handling, crisp steering and brakes, great power, AND silence (shockingly so) is still the best in class. That's the clincher for a lot of people, as it's not a mush-bag of water rolling down the road like a Camry but not as overly firm or lacking in insulation like an Accord.

Again, nothing is perfect, and a Camry does have the attributes you listed versus a Malibu...but it just comes down to what you like and want. I'll always respect the Camry, and even with the issues it has had, it's still a great package--otherwise, it wouldn't sell in the numbers it does. But, when you just want something "more", cars like the Malibu are there as a choice.
 

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Exactly. And you know why? Because unlike your typical Camry or Accord with those big, CHEAP c-hinges that crush your luggage, the Malibu (and most GM cars) use compact engineered hinges with gas struts in the gutter area.

Though I do like the trunk popping completely open (such as on my Fleetwood), I more like having the compact hinges with gas struts that let me actually load the trunk up and not work around where the big, stupid C-hinges are going to crush my stuff.

Oh, and as an '08 Malibu owner:
-Back seat is NOT tight. The car is generally narrower than some, but I'm 6'3" and this (and other Epsilons) is one of the few current sedans that actually has a comfortable back seat that has great height and support AND legroom and foot space for real people. No, it isn't lounge worthy like my Fleetwood, but it's better than even a lot of bigger cars in general. Especially in regards to too low, too short, etc. back seats.
-Overall solidity and finish is significantly richer than something like a Camry, which in current iteration has been known for crooked panels, loose interior bits, and rattles. The Malibu is not perfect, as some have commented on things like the door panels, etc. but it's great looking, feels solid and refined, and has nice storage. And GREAT seats.
-The combination of a supple ride, firm and sure handling, crisp steering and brakes, great power, AND silence (shockingly so) is still the best in class. That's the clincher for a lot of people, as it's not a mush-bag of water rolling down the road like a Camry but not as overly firm or lacking in insulation like an Accord.

Again, nothing is perfect, and a Camry does have the attributes you listed versus a Malibu...but it just comes down to what you like and want. I'll always respect the Camry, and even with the issues it has had, it's still a great package--otherwise, it wouldn't sell in the numbers it does. But, when you just want something "more", cars like the Malibu are there as a choice.
My main problem with the Malibu (and just about every other new car for that matter) is the small size of the trunk opening, my dad has a new Impala and while it still has a decent size trunk opening it is no match for his 92 Lumina making it harder to fit items that are not really oversize but a little bulky. For example it is very easy to 'toss" in a golf bag in the Lumina with out much thought of it fitting or hitting the sides of the trunk opening and about the same for the Impala but I bet you need to "place" a golf bag into a newer designs trunk instead of just "tossing" it.

Guess it is mainly due the long wheelbase/short overhang designs that are more effiecient but do compromise the trunk opening so we will probably have to get used to this.

How do you rate your new Malibu (trunk opening size) to past cars?
 

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My main problem with the Malibu (and just about every other new car for that matter) is the small size of the trunk opening, my dad has a new Impala and while it still has a decent size trunk opening it is no match for his 92 Lumina making it harder to fit items that are not really oversize but a little bulky. For example it is very easy to 'toss" in a golf bag in the Lumina with out much thought of it fitting or hitting the sides of the trunk opening and about the same for the Impala but I bet you need to "place" a golf bag into a newer designs trunk instead of just "tossing" it.

Guess it is mainly due the long wheelbase/short overhang designs that are more effiecient but do compromise the trunk opening so we will probably have to get used to this.

How do you rate your new Malibu (trunk opening size) to past cars?
Agreed. The truck opening kept me from buying an 08 Malibu to replace an 05 Maxx which served had me very well. I just needed the large opening / cargo space.
 

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2009 Camry LE vs 2009 Malibu LT
Camry LE
High reliability (easy to expect over 200K miles without replacing engine and transmission)

Malibu LT
Possibly less maintenance
Less expensive parts for out of warranty repairs
I know of a half a dozen Camry owners who either had major engine or trans problems under 100K or older models that could not get to pass emissions, all six had to basically "give" the Camry away.

GM cars require low maintenance and repalcement parts on older cars are reasonable opposed to many Toyota parts that are expensive or "Toyota dealer exclusive".

Anyway back to topic

2009 Camry LE vs 2009 Malibu LT
MSRP:
Camry LE $21,325
Malibu LT $22,485 (2008) ($1,160 HIGHER)

Driver seat
Camry LE 8-way power
Malibu LT 4-way power

Automatic
Camry LE 5-speed Auto
Malibu LT 4-speed

Manual
Camry LE 5-speed with Hand Brake (manual only) Console Mount
Malibu LT N/A

Wheels
Camry LE 16" Steel w/Covers
Malibu LT 17" Alloy

Rear Seat Armrest
Camry LE Standard
Malibu LT NA

Adjustable Pedals
Camry LE NA
Malibu LT NA (Used to be STD in 2008)

The 8-way power seat and rear arm rest negate the Alloy wheel advantage and they are optional on the LE (for about what 8-way and arm rest cost).

GM has some work to do, and I am adjusting the advantage the Malibu HAD with adjustable pedals to a 2009 price increase on the Malibu LT and it disappears in 2009 anyway.

IMO if GM matches the features of the Camry LE it will see an increase in sales against it, most buyers are going to figure on getting a better deal on a GM car and will consider it IF it has the SAME equipment otherwise they will use ANY missing feature as a reason not to even look at the Malibu.

So GM needs to make the 6-speed Auto standard on LT models along with the 8-way seat and rear seat armrest, steel wheels with covers are not a bad concession to price and the dealer can offer aftermarket alternatives giving the dealer some oppurtunity to make some more $$ and the Malibu buyer to have a "unique" car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
“You have left the planned route, do you need
directions to get back on route? I’m listening now, please say “Yes or
No.”


By the time you go through that process, you could have missed a couple more turns if there are back to back turns close together. If you could just press a button on the steering wheel that would mean either reroute or cancel the route to bypass that delay for the "Do you want to continue or not" prompt, OnStar navigation would be more useful.
Another issue is that you lose your route if you drive through an area with low or no cellular coverage. Not usefeul for driving to or through rural locations. This is why OnStar is not a true replacement for either a factory DVD nav or a portable nav.
 

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“You have left the planned route, do you need
directions to get back on route? I’m listening now, please say “Yes or
No.”


By the time you go through that process, you could have missed a couple more turns if there are back to back turns close together. If you could just press a button on the steering wheel that would mean either reroute or cancel the route to bypass that delay for the "Do you want to continue or not" prompt, OnStar navigation would be more useful.
Another issue is that you lose your route if you drive through an area with low or no cellular coverage. Not usefeul for driving to or through rural locations. This is why OnStar is not a true replacement for either a factory DVD nav or a portable nav.
I agree completely!! I wished they'd drop off the "I'm listening now..." part. I'm always saying "YES" too soon.

Also, on a side note, the areas with poor CDMA coverage are less common than one might think. Sure, we can all name places with poor signal... but all-in-all, I have few complaints.

As for me, I'm using OnStar as a supplement for my Garmin GPS -and- my Delorme Street Atlas equipped laptop. Even this morning, I was in an unfamiliar town looking for a business and neither the Garmin nor Delorme had it, while I do have a mobile broadband card, using OnStar, in my opinion is easier, safer and "usually" quicker stopping to look it up online. (I have had a few OnStar reps that were less-than-proficient in their lookups.) It all works for me, at least.

Another thought for your consideration. The reason I have not jumped on the "factory" GPS solutions is not because of functionality. They look great all integrated and (generally) have good user-interfaces. My decision is based on the fact that those I am familar with use a DVD for their data. As a "professional traveller", I am concerned with the constant mechanical DVD activity could be a reliability issue. Most portable GPS units use flash memory for their data storage and being solid-state, should be more reliable, not to mention a tad quicker.

Also, I do not know the exact answer to this, but have you compared and considered the cost of map updates (factory DVD vs portable update vs OnStar?) I personally consider part of my OnStar costs as a "map and data update."

Just my two cents... Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I agree completely!! I wished they'd drop off the "I'm listening now..." part. I'm always saying "YES" too soon.

Also, on a side note, the areas with poor CDMA coverage are less common than one might think. Sure, we can all name places with poor signal... but all-in-all, I have few complaints.

As for me, I'm using OnStar as a supplement for my Garmin GPS -and- my Delorme Street Atlas equipped laptop. Even this morning, I was in an unfamiliar town looking for a business and neither the Garmin nor Delorme had it, while I do have a mobile broadband card, using OnStar, in my opinion is easier, safer and "usually" quicker stopping to look it up online. (I have had a few OnStar reps that were less-than-proficient in their lookups.)

Oh, and one other thought for your consideration. The reason I have not jumped on the "factory" GPS solutions is not because of functionality. They look great all integrated and (generally) have good user-interfaces. My decision is based on s the fact that those I am familar with use a DVD for their data. As a "professional traveller", I am concerned with the constant DVD activity could be a reliability issue. Most portable GPS units use flash memory for their data storage and being solid-state, should be more reliable, not to mention a tad quicker.

I do not know the answer to this, but have you compared and considered the cost of map updates (factory DVD vs portable update vs OnStar.) I personally consider part of my OnStar costs as a "map and data update."

Just my two cents... Thoughts?
They should have an option to just recalculate the route without asking at all. You don't get a prompt asking you to say yes or no on any other nav system I've seen.

Obviously the cost of map updates on a portable nav doesn't compare to the cost of OnStar navigation after the free year is up.
Goog-411, Google Maps and Windows Live Search on my phone are a nice supplement to find businesses that aren't on the local database and they are all free so you don't even need to buy a map update every single year. It's easy to save Goog411 as a speed dial and use it to get addresses you can then save into your portable GPS.
 

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I think that the small trunk opening really hurts the otherwise massive trunk. As for the tight back seat, what are you like 9-foot give or take? I'm 6'2" and found it to be quite roomy back there. I really don't care about that either because the tallest person back there would only be about 4-foot and a half.
 

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Exactly. And you know why? Because unlike your typical Camry or Accord with those big, CHEAP c-hinges that crush your luggage, the Malibu (and most GM cars) use compact engineered hinges with gas struts in the gutter area.

Though I do like the trunk popping completely open (such as on my Fleetwood), I more like having the compact hinges with gas struts that let me actually load the trunk up and not work around where the big, stupid C-hinges are going to crush my stuff.
Exactly, my Lacrosse has those struts and I like the opening action a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I think that the small trunk opening really hurts the otherwise massive trunk. As for the tight back seat, what are you like 9-foot give or take? I'm 6'2" and found it to be quite roomy back there. I really don't care about that either because the tallest person back there would only be about 4-foot and a half.

The back seat is tight compared to the Camry and new Accord



Try sliding across the seat to exit out the opposite door or if you had to sit in the middle. The areas they scooped out of the seats to allow enough room for your knees to fit don't help then. Your legs and feet will get caught up in the tight spaces.
 

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2009 Camry LE vs 2009 Malibu LT
Both are quiet and have bluetooth available


Camry LE
High resale value
High reliability (easy to expect over 200K miles without replacing engine and transmission)

Extended warranties for Camry are cheaper and longer than Malibu because less claims are expected so lower risk to warranty company equals lower premium.
Lots of rear seat room with center armrest
Nice place to store and use portable GPS in lower console without need to unplug and move to hide it
Electroluminescent gauges look upscale
Knee airbags add extra crash safety
Handling not great
PZEV rating adds mandatory extended emissions controls warranty in CA and some other states

Malibu LT
1 year OnStar Turn By Turn navigation (free for 1 year, but clunky to have to call and wait for live operator, delay recalculating after missing a turn because you have the time-wasting extra step of having to verbally confirm to an automated virtual advisor that you really want it to recaclulate and continue on with the route after missing a turn before it will resume the route.
Can't use OnStar navigation when out of the wireless coverage area so you will need a backup portable nav anyway and will need to pay OnStar fees or move to the portable nav full time after 1 year.
No convenient location to store/use a portable GPS, so you will have to unplug it to move it out of view to prevent theft
Tight back seat (don't care that much because back seat won't be used very often)
Radio has RDS station ID song and artist capability
Factory remote starter available for less money than dealer accessory starter for Camry
Factory installed XM radio standard
Household style power outlet available.
Ambient interior lighting is kind of nice.
Unknown resale (probably not great after rental fleet sales increase in a few years)
Unknown reliability and not promising based on near identical Saturn Aurua's history
Disappointing paint color choices for 2009
Aux jack and power port are both in plain view instead of hidden in a compartment so you will have to unlug and hide your mp3 player each time you park to prevent theft.
Has better exterior styling
Very small trunk opening
Trunk lid doesn't pop up with remote like the Camry, it only unlocks and barely cracks open an inch.
1 MPG better fuel economy with 6-speed automatic.
Sportier handling around curves.
Longer standard powertrain warranty.
Possibly less maintenance
Maybe some less expensive parts for out of warranty repairs
I disagree with what I bolded.
 

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The back seat is tight compared to the Camry and new Accord



Try sliding across the seat to exit out the opposite door or if you had to sit in the middle. The areas they scooped out of the seats to allow enough room for your knees to fit don't help then. Your legs and feet will get caught up in the tight spaces.
anyone can bend the facts to meet their purpose. If you slide the front seat forward an inch or two, the backseat has tons of room and the guy needs to hold his head up and wha la...tons of room :rolleyes: We own a Maxx it has tons of room. The ONLY time I have trouble with my 6'0 frame heightwise is when I'm in the back of the Cobalt, NOT the Malibu:rolleyes:

CobaltSS
 
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