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By James M. Amend
WardsAuto.com, Apr 1, 2008 11:21 AM

The American Petroleum Industry, a lobbyist for nearly 60 of the largest U.S. oil and gas companies, claims individual filling station owners and auto makers play a greater role in the proliferation of biofuels pumps across the nation than do oil companies.

The API’s remarks come during a conference call with journalists ahead of a hearing today at which executives from the oil and gas industry will stand before a House committee to discuss the current state of oil and gas prices, oil company profits and the need for clean, renewable fuels to ease demand for oil and cut greenhouse gases.

In a recent speech, General Motors Corp. Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner said just 1% of the nation’s 170,000 filling stations offer a biofuels mixture, such as E85 – a blend of ethanol and gasoline.

“We’re doing a lousy job as a nation in making E85 available to our customers,” he says in a keynote address to the National Automobile Dealers Assn. meeting in San Francisco last month.

The GM chief suggests government regulation as one possibility to grow the number of E85 stations, saying as few as 15,000 would go a long way to slashing emissions.

As many as 9 million E85-compatable vehicles are on U.S. roads, according to industry estimates.

But API President and CEO Red Cavaney says the slow growth in E85 pumps is not the fault of his industry, as oil and gas companies account for just 10% of the nation’s retail filling stations. The remainder is in the hands of small business owners, who face investing $20,000 to $200,000 to accommodate biofuels.
Classic Chevrolet/Hummer in Grapevine, TX, opens biofuels filling station.

“They are the ones making the day-to-day determination as to whether demand for E85 is sufficient (to) make whatever investment they might need,” Cavaney tells Ward’s, noting it’s a significant commitment. The demand for biofuels nationwide just isn’t there, he insists.

http://wardsdealer.com/latest/petroleum_lack_biofuels/
 

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Why would they put up Biofuel pumps if they didn't have to??

I assume that the oil companies look at it a couple of ways.

1. If we hold out long enough, the government will pick up the tab.

2. We don't have the inside track on this fuel, so we're going to fight it as much as we can.

3. The total number of customers doesn't yet justify the expense.

Seriously, I hope the government doesn't fall into the trap of using taxpayer money to foot the bill for the oil companies. A first step would be to mandate that all NEW gas stations that are built have at least a minimum number of biofuel pumps. And they are not to be paid for by the taxpayer.

If they can mandate a minimum amount of biofuel that is to be produced in a year, they should finish the job and require it to be available to consumers.
 

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BS BS BS BS
The oil and gas industry isn't lying when they say they don't own the stations but they do supply the fuel to franchisers. Franchisers are being threatned by the oil companies with higher fuel prices and lower margins if they install E85 pumps. The oil companies are also raping the franchisers on E85 Fuel charging a massive markup just for blending it. Enough of a markup to offset their loss for the Franchiser not buying straight gasoline.

Man this just irritates the crap out of me.:mad:
 

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Why would they put up Biofuel pumps if they didn't have to??

I assume that the oil companies look at it a couple of ways.

1. If we hold out long enough, the government will pick up the tab.

2. We don't have the inside track on this fuel, so we're going to fight it as much as we can.

3. The total number of customers doesn't yet justify the expense.

Seriously, I hope the government doesn't fall into the trap of using taxpayer money to foot the bill for the oil companies. A first step would be to mandate that all NEW gas stations that are built have at least a minimum number of biofuel pumps. And they are not to be paid for by the taxpayer.

If they can mandate a minimum amount of biofuel that is to be produced in a year, they should finish the job and require it to be available to consumers.
Well I can't argue with the rest of it, but there shouldn't be much expense because no modifications need to be done, so every diesel engine could pretty much run it, so there should be quite the market....if one could find it.
 

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A new E-85 pump just recently opened not to far from me across the state line in MO. where there was none in the area before, at an independent, non national brand station.
We've been by there several times lately and there's always an Impala, Taurus, (old body style), or a GM pickup there filling up.
The price last week was $2.79 per gal. vs $3.14 for regular unleaded. An 11% difference. Right on the border of being not far enough apart to justify buying it.
Hope it succeeds!
 

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Well I can't argue with the rest of it, but there shouldn't be much expense because no modifications need to be done, so every diesel engine could pretty much run it, so there should be quite the market....if one could find it.
So, your saying that a diesel engine can run E-85 with out harm, and need no modifications? if so, my next comumer car will be a golf TDI...
 

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there is a biodiesel plant being built just a few miles from my town, should be up and going by this time next year. I'm hopping it brings the price of diesel around here down. if it dose then a diesel powered car would become on my watch list.
 

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I've never seen an E85 pump at anything but an independant station and I'm right in the middle of corn country. Quite a few of them don't even offer E10... the cheapest gas around these parts.
 

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Well I can't argue with the rest of it, but there shouldn't be much expense because no modifications need to be done, so every diesel engine could pretty much run it, so there should be quite the market....if one could find it.
In theory that sounds good but in reality it is really expensive. A new tank will need to be added at each gas station. The process to get the permits and to install one is insanely expensive (zoning, EPA, etc). Once that is installed, now you need to get a supply of ethanol/biodiesel. Since it is in rare supply right now, you have a higher cost to get it.

My family has a fuel station and the oil company conspiracy is really getting to be old hat. A franchise lets you put a company's name on the product that you sell. In most cases the gas/diesel comes from an independent supplier (around here only Holiday and Shell have their own distribution channels) so it is not the "evil oil companies" that are keeping ethanol out. The return and value is just not there right now. With more and more vehicles that are E85 capable and more producers coming online, the market will drive the desire for more pumps.
 

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The Big Oil Companies are the biggest abusers of the American public in this countries history. If we had elected officials with the spine of jelly fish, they would jerk a knot in these disgusting vermin and give the people of this country a break. Corruption, corruption, corruption, it cannot be said enough, it will eventually destroy this country.
 

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In theory that sounds good but in reality it is really expensive. A new tank will need to be added at each gas station. The process to get the permits and to install one is insanely expensive (zoning, EPA, etc). Once that is installed, now you need to get a supply of ethanol/biodiesel. Since it is in rare supply right now, you have a higher cost to get it.

My family has a fuel station and the oil company conspiracy is really getting to be old hat. A franchise lets you put a company's name on the product that you sell. In most cases the gas/diesel comes from an independent supplier (around here only Holiday and Shell have their own distribution channels) so it is not the "evil oil companies" that are keeping ethanol out. The return and value is just not there right now. With more and more vehicles that are E85 capable and more producers coming online, the market will drive the desire for more pumps.
Ethanol hard to get not in the midwest. ADM has a ton of production in decatur, il . Almost everyother midwestern state does too.
 

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My sister in law was a manager at a BP Oil station here in Pittsburgh, Her station was sold off to a franchise and now most of them are not Company stores any longer, I guess it was done so that BP and others (im sure they all did the same thing) can now blame someone else.
 

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Ethanol hard to get not in the midwest. ADM has a ton of production in decatur, il . Almost everyother midwestern state does too.
Getting a supplier to truck it to a location is the problem. If the next closest E85 station is 100 miles away, getting the product to you location is going to be expensive. Trust me, we have looked into it.
 

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My sister in law was a manager at a BP Oil station here in Pittsburgh, Her station was sold off to a franchise and now most of them are not Company stores any longer, I guess it was done so that BP and others (im sure they all did the same thing) can now blame someone else.
Wow, so every other industry that is selling off their sales network is doing it to blame others? Did GM get spin off Delphi to pass the "blame" on? Does McDonalds suck because the restaurants are not owned by the company?
 

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Of course it's not the Oil Industries fault. It's ALWAYS the automakers fault. Politicians will say they were not perceptive enough to see that nobody would build alternate fueling stations (E85, Electric, Hydrogen, etc). But that's OK, just keep spending those billions tilting at windmills.
 

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The oil companies are only doing what any respectable oligopoly would do--
Protect North American families from the apocalyptic environmental collapse that using ethanol as fuel would bring!!!!!

The coming Biofuels Environmental Disaster:

Phase 1 - All usable crop land is devoted to fuel production. Mexican tortilla prices skyrocket.

Phase 2 - Worldwide eutrophication - Due to the incredible amounts of fertilizer required to grow biofuels, as well as a dependence on genetically altered algae strains to create biodiesel, every lake, stream, and ocean is filled overnight with a goppy green goo.

Phase 3 - Faced with an utter lack of foodstuffs and potable water, populations worldwide succumb to the alcohol-laced exhaust fumes from millions of biofueled vehicles.

Result: The world turns into a green-goo covered slimeball with disco lights, an enternal keg party atmosphere, and very skimpy hors d'œuvres.

This message brought to you by the allied members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries. Helping drive a stake into your economy since 1960.
 

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If the government required all new (ie, not already built) gas stations to install E85 and biodiesel pumps, the investment in new biofuel plants would grow exponentially. Then the cost of the fuel would come down (this of course hinges on cellulosic becoming more prevalent). Then, once the gas companies see that the ethanol pumps in the area are
getting more business, they will swallow hard and bury new tanks.

Hell, I'm not even opposed to the Goverment subsidizing THE COST OF THE UPGRADE TO INSTALL ETHANOL PUMPS. Not the fuel itself, as I think it needs to stand on it's own.


I OWN PAGE THREE!!
 
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