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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From a bill passed by the Pennsylvania legislature:

ALL DIESEL FUEL SOLD OR OFFERED FOR SALE TO ULTIMATE
12 CONSUMERS IN THIS COMMONWEALTH FOR USE IN ON-ROAD COMPRESSION
13 IGNITION ENGINES MUST CONTAIN AT LEAST 20% BIODIESEL BY
14 VOLUME ONE YEAR AFTER THE IN-STATE PRODUCTION VOLUME OF
15 400,000,000 GALLONS OF BIODIESEL HAS BEEN REACHED AND
16 SUSTAINED FOR THREE MONTHS ON AN ANNUALIZED BASIS AS
17 DETERMINED BY THE DEPARTMENT.
. . .
CELLULOSIC ETHANOL CONTENT REQUIRED.--ALL GASOLINE SOLD
29 OR OFFERED FOR SALE TO ULTIMATE CONSUMERS IN THIS COMMONWEALTH
30 MUST CONTAIN AT LEAST 10% CELLULOSIC ETHANOL BY VOLUME AS

1 DETERMINED BY AN APPROPRIATE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY OR
2 AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR TESTING MATERIALS STANDARD METHOD OF
3 ANALYSIS ONE YEAR AFTER THE IN-STATE PRODUCTION VOLUME OF
4 350,000,000 GALLONS OF CELLULOSIC ETHANOL HAS BEEN REACHED AND
5 SUSTAINED FOR THREE MONTHS ON AN ANNUALIZED BASIS AS DETERMINED
6 BY THE DEPARTMENT.
As you read through the entire bill, you see that there are certain conditions and exceptions. For example, the B20 mandate applies only if manufacturers agree that it will not void warranties. But we all know that that is coming. Therefore, this bill guarantees a market for in-state producers of biofuels.

Also, while the bill does not technically require in-state produced B20 and cellulosic E10, that will be the effect. Biofuels produced in-state will go to the nearest blenders.
 

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It's about time a state legislature passed laws requiring Biofuels, now if the clowns in D.C. would let us Drill.

Maybe the Congress should move back to Philadelphia at least Pennsylvanians have some sense and would do SOMETHING to address our fuel problems TODAY.
 

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This legislation reminds one of the wag's observation regarding Irish lace:"It's hard to see why it is so expensive. It's mostly holes."
Reading the bill, it's easy to see why so little is done by legislators: they've included exceptions for production below the minimum, applications for alternatives, loopholes for emission compliance, et cetera.
I applaud the Pennsylvania Legislature for trying. It is clear, however, that the Congress (attention Senator Reid and Speaker Pelosi) must act.
Should any state require the use of in-state produce biofuels; they would find themselves summarily in violation of the Commerce Clause of the US Constitution. Washington needs to wake up!
Cheers,
Ed Arcuri
P.S. 55 MPH? Try that in Western Kansas on a hot, August day. Yikes.
 

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If the clowns at GMI would just stop pushing The Energy Plan That Kills World's Poor, we wouldn't have a WORLD WIDE FOOD CRISIS on our hands.

Hoosier Ron: I invite you to tell us if you are a disinterested observer of all this, or whether you profit from, literally, snatching the food out of the hands of the world's poorest children.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If the clowns at GMI would just stop pushing The Energy Plan That Kills World's Poor, we wouldn't have a WORLD WIDE FOOD CRISIS on our hands.

Hoosier Ron: I invite you to tell us if you are a disinterested observer of all this, or whether you profit from, literally, snatching the food out of the hands of the world's poorest children.
I am a disinterested observer. I have no financial interest of any kind whatsoever in the ethanol industry. I own no stocks and I am not employed in the industry. I simply am an American who wants his nation to be energy independent and who wants American dollars to stay in the American economy.
 

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good move - and finally governments recognizing that corn ethanol is a dead end ...

and I like how this bill does not really mandate in state use of E10 and B20 or even production - but creates a stimulus for people to build the production infrastructure - guaranteeing that once the production is there - this will come to effect.

I am right now in Sweden and the extent to which this country was able to stimulate CNG, E85, and B20 cars (And discourage Gasoline and Diesel cars) is quite astonishing ... one of them: Regular: 14kr/l -E85: 8Kr/l - and there are others - discounted or free parking, lower taxes and insurance .. it is truly wonderful.

My uncle just bought a Saab 9-5 SportCombi BioPower

Igor
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
good move - and finally governments recognizing that corn ethanol is a dead end ...
I don't think anyone recognizes that corn ethanol is dead. It isn't, and won't be for a long, long time. As long as corn ethanol is cheaper than gasoline, it will be produced.

Rather, I think this shows that governments are starting to recognize that cellulosic ethanol is progressing to the point of economic viability.
 

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If the clowns at GMI would just stop pushing The Energy Plan That Kills World's Poor, we wouldn't have a WORLD WIDE FOOD CRISIS on our hands.

Hoosier Ron: I invite you to tell us if you are a disinterested observer of all this, or whether you profit from, literally, snatching the food out of the hands of the world's poorest children.
HUH?

US has SO MUCH agricultural overproduction - all of it producing corn no one needs - why do you think we use Corn Syrup instead of sugar, etc etc etc.

That said - corn Ethanol is useless - however once we establish Cellulotic / Algae / and other Ethanol/BioDiesel production and switch this USELESS corn production to to other production which is adctuall demanded - we will all be better off.

and about world food prices : the cost of food goes up because of speculation and increased global demand - CHIEFLY FROM INDIA AND CHINA.
That is all augmented by the increased energy demand from those two countries (plus speculation).

Igor
 

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Special to KingElvis.
I assume by your post that you are arguing that the use of corn for ethanol production has led to food shortages. Please look at the data. There is no doubt that food prices have increased and that some are suffering as a result.
Those who are arguing that this results from ethanol mandates are victims of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. You know, the gorilla is in the jungle; therefore the gorilla caused the jungle.
The increase in production, and the exportation of corn, is greater than the amount of corn used for ethanol production. Other factors are causing the food problems. The government of Zimbabwe has sytematically destroyed agriculture in what used to be one of the richest and most stable agricultural regions in Africa. Australia has seen diminutions in its wheat production owing to drought. Meanwhile, there has been an exponential increase in the consumption of meat in India and China as those countries become more prosperous. While all this was going on, a rumor made the rounds that there exists a shortage of rice; untrue, but sufficiently credible that the price of rice (and consequent hoarding) raised the price for a time.
This is a complicated subject, but the price of food is only distantly related to your neighbor's use of E85.
Simpler yet: farmers use a lot of gasoline and diesel to put food on our table. The price of gasoline and diesel is way up. Coincidence?
Cheers,
Ed
 

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If the clowns at GMI would just stop pushing The Energy Plan That Kills World's Poor, we wouldn't have a WORLD WIDE FOOD CRISIS on our hands.

Hoosier Ron: I invite you to tell us if you are a disinterested observer of all this, or whether you profit from, literally, snatching the food out of the hands of the world's poorest children.

To hell with the world's poor. The damn libs in this country tout and gloat when other nations take care of themselves first, and demand that we do the same. When we do, those same idiots are the first to cry fowl. I say let them find their own food, and let us take care of THIS country for a change.
 

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Is it a coincidence that COSKATA"S first plant is about to be completed in MADISON PA?

The incentive for cellosic ethanol mandates makes perfect sense considering the Coskata plant being built for the 3rd or 4th quarter of 2008 completion date.

I believe more states should push for similiar production facilities.

If at the very least state owned facilities for municipal vehicles makes a lot of sense considering Coskata plants use 1 gallon of water to produce 1 gallon of cellosic ethanol at 1 dollar cost.

The state facility owned and operated would dramatically cut state costs for fuel.

E85 fleet conversions would be the next step to cut costs.

Does that mean GM vehicles for most state agencies?

that could be a good thing for american industry as well.

JMO

What do You think?
 

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I don't think anyone recognizes that corn ethanol is dead. It isn't, and won't be for a long, long time. As long as corn ethanol is cheaper than gasoline, it will be produced.

Rather, I think this shows that governments are starting to recognize that cellulosic ethanol is progressing to the point of economic viability.
Exactly.

One of the many things the misinformed do with their concerns for the poor and ethanol from corn etc is to 'forget' that higher energy prices kill just as effectively as a little 'less' corn to get the ball rollin' on sustainable fuels - and that we still pay to not plant various crops etc.

In fact, over the last year or so high energy prices have been 'more effectivel'.

If you want to help lessen that widespread and particularly cruel suffering - there are many things that need done - including non oil/ low energy price 'systems' and solutions.
 

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HUH?

US has SO MUCH agricultural overproduction - all of it producing corn no one needs - why do you think we use Corn Syrup instead of sugar, etc etc etc.

That said - corn Ethanol is useless - however once we establish Cellulotic / Algae / and other Ethanol/BioDiesel production and switch this USELESS corn production to to other production which is adctuall demanded - we will all be better off.

and about world food prices : the cost of food goes up because of speculation and increased global demand - CHIEFLY FROM INDIA AND CHINA.
That is all augmented by the increased energy demand from those two countries (plus speculation).

Igor
YEP.

And other things like that.

It has never been about a lack of food or food production capability.

The United Stated Federal Government deficit spending and the whole story concerning it is, as an example, is a big contributor to the problem.

******************************************************************************************************

Anyway, gotta love the B20 - gives you even more bang for the buck than ethanol - both obviously should be pursued.
 

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