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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
A Mid-Engined Corvette means a Caddy Too
January 11th, 2015
by MonaroSS





Cadillac-V & Cadillac-VR
Make it Wild
Make a Bold Statement







If the test mule of a new GM mid-engined sports car as seen becomes a Corvette, it will almost certainly become a Cadillac. My opinion is that Corvette owners are both much older and more conservative than the wealthier customers Cadillac is now seeking to bring into their showrooms. Wealthy luxury buyers may like a heritage Old World country home but often have a modern glass and chrome office if not town house. Equally they may have a dark metallic grey town car but their sports cars are dramatic and make a statement. So too Cadillac needs to make a bold statement.

Let the Corvette be conservative with a naturally aspirated V8 or Supercharged V8, but give the Cadillac Twin Turbo V6 and V8's mixed with optional electric motors to the front wheels. And wrap the Cadillac in bodywork that is both available in any color you want and sharp and edgy enough you could cut yourself on it.

Never mind it is polarizing and 60% of people hate it, so long as they remember it. So long as it sends a message to people, for whom Cadillac is not even on their radar, that Cadillac is prepared to take risks and is a brand you need to keep an eye on as to what they may surprise you with next...







My Corvette Z1 and Cadillac-V share a carbonfiber tub and platform, with only shared external bits being the windscreen and roof panel. The purple Cadillac VR at top should have a minimum of 200hp electric motor to the front and 600hp TTV8 to the rear. The silvergreen 500hp TTV8 above would be the volume performance version with optional 200hp electric motor, and the blue 400hp TTV6 below would be entry level and with an enlarged battery pack and 150hp electric motor in front would be the plug-in Eco-model.

PS. The Corvette below is an optional Longtail version with a larger trunk for those who have been complaining Corvette buyers need to take 2 golf bags and luggage for a weekend away...







What do you think, tell us and come back to comment on what others thought as well...


BTW those who think the design garish should click on these links to see large versions. Zoom in. Seeing it up close makes it look completely different...


SilverGreen
http://s4.postimg.org/uk95a1unh/Cadillac_V_V8_Silver_Green.jpg


Purple
http://s11.postimg.org/qbjz125yr/Cadillac_V_left_baa.jpg




could you make a CTS with the design cues from this that you think would translate to the mainstream models?




;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I like the A pillar back. I think the front end may need some refining.

Its definitely a good start
I wanted to give the front the look of just the upper hood floating free. All the rest in front including the splitter and side panels (which have a gap between them and the fender) in front of the front wheels just seemingly suspended by the two down struts in front. No grille mesh you look in the front and see all the workings like brake cooling ducts, oil and other radiators etc...



BTW here is a Full Size pic to view detail...



http://s4.postimg.org/uk95a1unh/Cadillac_V_V8_Silver_Green.jpg



http://s11.postimg.org/qbjz125yr/Cadillac_V_left_baa.jpg










;)
 

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It should be radical,but not garish and not look like it's trying too hard to be something differerent. The concepts you have put forth Monaro are just a little too boy racer for me; and I love boy racer!.Tone down "Need for Speed: Underground" front end and get rid of those "cuts/slits" in the fenders to start. I would like to see something ugh I hate saying this "classy".
 

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I wanted to give the front the look of just the upper hood floating free. All the rest in front including the splitter and side panels (which have a gap between them and the fender) in front of the front wheels just seemingly suspended by the two down struts in front. No grille mesh you look in the front and see all the workings like brake cooling ducts, oil and other radiators etc...



;)
Try merging the gen 3 CTS front end with the Cien
 

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The brief makes sense to me. Its essentially the relationship the Audi R8 has with the Lamborghini Gallardo. But, the actual proposal isn't working for me for a couple of reasons.

First, other than the tail light, it seems to bear no resemblance to any other Cadillac design. This car would be a flagship for Cadillac, a halo. Yet, it looks like it comes from a completely different company.

As well, too much of the boldness looks tacked on rather than integrated into the overall form. There's loads of scoops and spoilers dominating the form. Yes, that's also true of, say, a Countach. But if you look at the early models, it's also a wild underlying shape that is remarkable in its simplicity.

My fovourite part of this render is the rear fender. It manages to take an existing Cadillac form and push it to an extreme. It manages to look 'Cadillac', without necessarily looking like any current Cadillac.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
The brief makes sense to me. Its essentially the relationship the Audi R8 has with the Lamborghini Gallardo. But, the actual proposal isn't working for me for a couple of reasons.

First, other than the tail light, it seems to bear no resemblance to any other Cadillac design. This car would be a flagship for Cadillac, a halo. Yet, it looks like it comes from a completely different company.

As well, too much of the boldness looks tacked on rather than integrated into the overall form. There's loads of scoops and spoilers dominating the form. Yes, that's also true of, say, a Countach. But if you look at the early models, it's also a wild underlying shape that is remarkable in its simplicity.

My fovourite part of this render is the rear fender. It manages to take an existing Cadillac form and push it to an extreme. It manages to look 'Cadillac', without necessarily looking like any current Cadillac.
That's exactly what I would not do.

The 1950's Benz Gullwing looked like no production Benz, the Corvette looked like no production Chevy, the E-Type looked like no production Jag. People all still thought of them as Benz, Chevy and Jag because they were bold enough to grab people's attention.

We today are all too boring, boring, boring...

Our grandparents were young and adventurous, we give birth to retirees today... :D

BTW, the headlights are the main top section of the ELR and the verticle LED light tubes are there too.


;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
It should be radical,but not garish and not look like it's trying too hard to be something differerent. The concepts you have put forth Monaro are just a little too boy racer for me; and I love boy racer!.Tone down "Need for Speed: Underground" front end and get rid of those "cuts/slits" in the fenders to start. I would like to see something ugh I hate saying this "classy".
When Lamborghini released the Countach and Ferrari the Berlinetta Boxer, Maserati also released the Bora - which everyone said was so much more "classy". Guess which one did not sell? Cadillac already has enough classy cars that don't sell....

And in any case, what really adds class is the finest materials and fit and finish. This design made in fiberglass by a kit-car maker would be garish, do it in the finest leathers hand stitched and laser sharp fit and gem quality finishes and it would look exquisitely avant-garde...


;)
 

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That's exactly what I would not do.

The 1950's Benz Gullwing looked like no production Benz, the Corvette looked like no production Chevy, the E-Type looked like no production Jag. People all still thought of them as Benz, Chevy and Jag because they were bold enough to grab people's attention.

We today are all too boring, boring, boring...

Our grandparents were young and adventurous, we give birth to retirees today... :D

BTW, the headlights are the main top section of the ELR and the verticle LED light tubes are there too.


;)
In don't entirely disagree. But, those cars were a substantial deviation in form and shape. Your render is a fairly conventional mid-engined silhouette and is mainly notable for an lot of what the Japanese used to call "surface excitement." The biggest innovation I can see is the shape of the wheel openings, but they seem to recall the wheel accents of the 300 Gullwing, which is an odd heritage cue on a Cadillac. Plus, they would appear to invite a lot of aerodynamic turbulence. Perhaps if they were functional in same way, I'd appreciate them from an engineering perspective.

But, hey: that's just one random guy's perspective. I'm sure your fans on the site will love it.
 

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I hate the idea of a shared chassis with the Vette. The Cadillac should have a much higher transaction price, but that will lead to the "why is this $50,000 more than the Vette" comparisons. Either they have to be very similarly priced or the Cadillac needs something to justify it's lofty price. Nicer leather wont cut it.

With that said, I think a mid-engine Cadillac needs to be substantially different somehow, I'm not sure how, but it needs to be. I'd be happier with Cadillac taking the C7 chassis and making an Aston Martin type car with that while the Vette goes solely mid-engine.

As always I admire your chops MonaroSS, this one doesn't seem as cohesive - it doesn't seem right. It's to flamboyant in a Lamborghini Countach kind of way. I'd prefer to see something more on the elegant side, which is something we never see on a mid engine vehicle.
 

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It's a gumpert apollo
It's an alien
No! It's ...that thing.

Yeah make something radical. But there is radical.. and then there is bodykitted honda s2000. Mid engine layout is going to make the car need to have a more drastic design anyway. Get rid of the scoops and wing and go something classy with it. This is a cadillac not some dutch guy with a weird name who wants to make cars thay look like his daydreams.
 
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A point of reference: when the Countach came out in the early 1970s, it did not have the flares and wings of the more iconic 80s versions. Into a world of Colanade Oldsmobiles and VW Bugs -- and even C3 Corvettes -- Lambo launched this:



The true radical nature of the design comes from the shape and form. The conventions of the time (and now!) of hood, cabin and tail are blurred into a single, spaceship-like form. Nothing looked like this in the early 70s, not even Lamborghini's earlier mid-engined Miura.

What might appear this radical today? The BMW i8 is probably the closest I can think of, but I don't think it's as much of a statement today as the Countach was forty years ago.
 

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Excellent quality chop Monaro ... especially on the details being under show "lights"!

But I am feeling very little Caddy in that design. Feels like a mash up of German and Japanese styling over American.

Would this bad boy street legal or track only? Looks like a beast!

Are the cutouts in the fender wells for air feed or just looks? Is that a design following function or just a design element.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
A point of reference: when the Countach came out in the early 1970s, it did not have the flares and wings of the more iconic 80s versions. Into a world of Colanade Oldsmobiles and VW Bugs -- and even C3 Corvettes -- Lambo launched this:



The true radical nature of the design comes from the shape and form. The conventions of the time (and now!) of hood, cabin and tail are blurred into a single, spaceship-like form. Nothing looked like this in the early 70s, not even Lamborghini's earlier mid-engined Miura.

What might appear this radical today? The BMW i8 is probably the closest I can think of, but I don't think it's as much of a statement today as the Countach was forty years ago.
That is true. However it was because it was a new form of platform that had never been seen in a road car before and this was ther first to truly exploit it. The Muira was transitional.

We will not see that kind of radical change until a new type of car is invented. In the mean time Cadillac needs to be noticed and will be on a traditional Mid-Engine platform. Tone it down and make it look classy and it will look like an MR2 in a French Riviera Casino parking lot next to other exotics. Blending in is not going to get the marketing job done for Cadillac.

This car is not to make a great car but to market the name Cadillac as being alive and selling cars - which most of the world does not even know. American GM enthusiast on this site don't seem to get that. Nobody in the rest of the world would see this car and make comparisons to whether it looks like a Cadillac as they have never seen nor heard of a Cadillac...



;)
 

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That is true. However it was because it was a new form of platform that had never been seen in a road car before and this was ther first to truly exploit it. The Muira was transitional.

We will not see that kind of radical change until a new type of car is invented. In the mean time Cadillac needs to be noticed and will be on a traditional Mid-Engine platform. Tone it down and make it look classy and it will look like an MR2 in a French Riviera Casino parking lot next to other exotics. Blending in is not going to get the marketing job done for Cadillac.

This car is not to make a great car but to market the name Cadillac as being alive and selling cars - which most of the world does not even know. American GM enthusiast on this site don't seem to get that. Nobody in the rest of the world would see this car and make comparisons to whether it looks like a Cadillac as they have never seen nor heard of a Cadillac...



;)
Sure, but then future Cadillacs should be adopting some of this car's styling. Otherwise, what exactly are you introducing the world to, other than the name? Is that what you are proposing -- that this is a radical leader of the next generation of Cadillac styling as say that Avus was to Audi? I have to be honest: I do not like this as a design direction for Cadillac.

Also, you've proposed some pretty significance electrification in this car, which is far more radical than then packaging shift from Muira to Countach -- a shift from a transverse mid engined V12 to a reverse longitudinal V12 with the transmission between the passengers. That should upen up some interesting shifts in form and shape, even if the central tub is shared.
 

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I think the designs are spot on because it does have to make a statement much like the way the Slade does. Has anyone seen the new Lambos in person. Caddy will have to come correct from the start.
 
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