[Mr_Pringle]

Nomad Gets Prelim. Green Light
Family of rear-drivers grows as Solstice closes in.
by Paul A. Eisenstein (2004-02-16)

Big things quite literally do come in small packages, as General Motors is intent on proving with a procession of high-profile products that will share the same sporty platform as the upcoming Pontiac Solstice roadster.

The sporty Chevrolet Nomad concept vehicle, first shown at the Detroit auto show last month, is tentatively approved for production by mid 2007, while an assortment of other sporty spin-offs of the new Kappa "architecture" are set to follow, well-placed sources tell TheCarConnection.com. These include a new Chevrolet coupe, a hardtop Buick convertible, and the long-sought "entry" model for Cadillac.

"We look at (Kappa-based vehicles) as a high-volume proposal that could really be sold anywhere in the world," senior GM designer Dave Lyon declared during a recent design forum in Toronto.

(Full Story Here)

 

[mgescuro]

<_< Will the media ever get it straight? "Entry model for Cadillac?" I wouldn't mind seeing a Cadillac Kappa to compete with Z4 and SLK. But wouldn't necessarily call that "entry level."

Not quite sure what the Chevy Nomad will do for Chevy though. Unless, there are going to stretch their "sporty coupe" line. Nomad to Next-Gen Camaro to Corvette, much the way they do with the trucks.

Saab is the most deserving of a Kappa though.

In either case, it's good news to see GM coming out with exciting new cars and credible designs.

 

[chev454ls]

Originally posted by mgescuro@Feb 16 2004, 01:13 AM
<_<
Saab is the most deserving of a Kappa though.

I don't know if Saab is the most deserving since they are getting a version of the WRX.

 

[Smilingoat]

hell everyone might as well get a low volume version of it. sense this is such an adapible platform they should use them as an attraction to each brand. give the style of the division for each one, so each can choose there company style they like then grow with it.

caddy- Z4 fighter mid 30grand to 40 grand

pontiac- solctice

chevy- nomad low 20 grand

saturn- curve, but bolder than the concept and maybe a smaller emblem also low 20 grand

saab- 2+2 with retractable hardtop that focuses more on safty with style like the 9-2. high 20 grand

buick- premium sporty retractible hardtop with a new buick look that will be the future of buicks design theme. low 30 grand

GMC- ok yeah that ones just a joke lol

 

[BigAls87Z28]

I dont see the need in Chevy's line up for a nomad. Pontiac, ok they have "exciting" cars, but the Nomad? I dont know. Saab, yes, but its RWD which might pose a weird thing for Saab owners, but a hatch back kappa saab might not be that bad.
A larger kappa for caddy would be awesome and give Caddy that sporty feel. 2.4. base, and perhaps an alternet V6 motor for the mid level model, and a blown V6 for V model. This is a good idea, but I dont see caddy jumping off track of making luxury sedans right now.
Saturn, oh hell yes they need one, and they need to get the car into drifting, as the solstice.
As for buick.... no way. They dont need that kinda car.

 

[nsap]

This is great news! GM is finally getting it right!

 

[Ming]

A flood of vehicles like this will take the market by storm.

Now let's hope GM can keep the pricing down so people will actually buy them and not just wish they could afford them.

 

[tgagneguam]

I'm really excited about the potential of the Kappa platform. GM will be able to do low-cost halo vehicles in a variety of forms (2-place convertible, 4-place coupe, 4-place hardtop convertible) with completely distinct shapes for most divisions, save GMC and Hummer (let's not overdo it, GM!). And I have all the faith in the world that GM will stick to its near $20,000 price point, assuming dealers don't stick on their own premiums. And with volume limited to 20,000/year/version, they will be able to generate cash since they won't need profit-sapping incentives.

I'm a bit torn on a version for Cadillac, though. mostly because I think Cadillac needs to get a few other vehicles right (where's the "CTC" and "ULS?") before it starts adding lower-cost vehicles. It seems a Saab "Sonnet" might be a better option, or a Buick convertible (nee Bengal) would be a better idea.

My only gripe with the Nomad: 2007?! I'm too impatient for that to be the availability date.

 

[Tone]

Originally posted by bigals87z28@Feb 16 2004, 03:35 AM
I dont see the need in Chevy's line up for a nomad.  Pontiac, ok they have "exciting" cars, but the Nomad?  I dont know.  Saab, yes, but its RWD which might pose a weird thing for Saab owners, but a hatch back kappa saab might not be that  bad. 

As much as I love the Nomad - and want one - I have to agree. If Chevrolet is going to be the "value" division, does it need low volume specialty cars like the Nomad?

On the other hand, even Honda gives it's bread and butter division the S2000. Chevy has its Corvette, so maybe this can be made to work.

Nobody has commented on the fact they also mentioned a small coupe for Chevrolet based off this platform, in addition to the Nomad. Could this be the Camaro?

If so, the Nomad makes much more sense - it could be part of a "family" of small, sporty cars with would include the Cobalt (volume leader), the Nomad and at the top rung of performance below the Corvette, the Camaro.

But, if Pontiac is going to be the performance leader, this family will have to be a step down from what Pontiac offers. Which probably means the Nomad won't be as quick as the Solstice and the Camaro won't have as much power as the GTO.

But, I still like the idea - especially if it means the next Camaro is a bit smaller and lighter and still fits a V8 (like the new Corvette!).

 

[LJUBISA]

WHY MID 2007 HOW ABOUT MID 2005 OR EARLY 2006

 

[AMcA]

Originally posted by bigals87z28@Feb 16 2004, 09:35 AM
I dont see the need in Chevy's line up for a nomad.  Pontiac, ok they have "exciting" cars, but the Nomad?  I dont know. 

No, I disagree. The Nomad is a great addition to the Chevy line. It brings together three values Chevy stands for: sports (i.e., Corvette), utility (i.e. all of the trucks and SUVs), and sensible (Cobalts, Malibus, etc.).

If a Chevy Kappa were a coupe or roadster, all it would be is a junior Corvette. And that would likely be percieved as a chick-mobile. By doing the practical sports car Chevy pushes all the buttons at once. And the practical button is a good one to push. Look where the entire market has gone: SUVs, minivans - vehicles that can be useful for carting when needed. The Nomad format incorporates this value while still being an image sports car. Could be a masterstroke.

Most important of all, though, is that the Nomad harkens back to Chevy's storied past. Toyota can't do that, Honda can't do that and the Koreans can't even think about doing that. People want Chevies, in part for the rich historical associations they carry. (How else to explain the strange late and still building success of the Impala - people want Chevys because they are Chevys.)

Besides, folks, the Nomad's a Kappa. They only have to build 20,000 a year to count a success, if Solstice production plans are any indication. 20,000 a year, that's just over half of the 2001 production of Corvettes.

 

[AMcA]

OH, guys, I just had an idea. What would power the perfect Nomad?

How about the original size of small block V8 - a 283? As I understand it, the current LS1 is, deep in its heart of hearts, a decendent of the original small block. So could they produce a 283 size of the LS1? I bet it'd be a virtual walk in the park (OK, I hope it'd be a virtual walk in the park.)

Think about it. The current engine (the one presently in the C5) produces 340 hp from 345 cubes. So, OK, how's about a Nomad with, say, 282 hp from 283 cubes?

 

[pkd87]

i so happy. I love the Nomad. Go GM.

 

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally posted by AMcA@Feb 16 2004, 04:26 PM
OH, guys, I just had an idea.  What would power the perfect Nomad?

How about the original size of small block V8 - a 283?  As I understand it, the current LS1 is, deep in its heart of hearts, a decendent of the original small block.  So could they produce a 283 size of the LS1?  I bet it'd be a virtual walk in the park (OK, I hope it'd be a virtual walk in the park.)

Think about it.  The current engine (the one presently in the C5) produces 340 hp from 345 cubes.  So, OK, how's about a Nomad with, say, 282 hp from 283 cubes?

well the gen III small block is gone, the gen IV could be made into a 4.6-4.7L(280-283) V8.
But thats a moot point since a V8 will no fit in between the frame rails, even if maxed out. This has been discussed over and over in every single kappa thread on this site. A V8 car like that would deffinaly make the car a mid to upper 20's if not more. Kappa was designed around the concpet of a cheap but sporty roadster. If there is going to be a RWD V8 car, it better have Camaro on its skins. I still think that its not a good car for Chevy and wont draw much demand after a year or so. Other then the novel idea of having a cool looking car is gone, you have a small station wagon that cant really hold a lot of stuff....bah I dont wana get into it but I have my reasons to why I think that it wont work.

also, the "original" small block wasnt the 283, it was the 265 making about 180hp. And the Corvette makes 350hp out of 346 cubes, but the LS6 makes 405 out of the same 346ci.

 

[psychosquirrel]

I sincerely doubt the rumors of a V8 engine in ANY kappa vehicle. The "architecture" is simply NOT designed for a V8.

ALL of the vehicles run ecotec engines in a variety of displacements and configurations, blown or n.a. But don't start screaming about why you hate 4 cylinder cars....these are small vehicles and a V8 would screw up the weight and balance big time imho.

And before you complain about the ecotec consider that the engine can, and will be, seriously developed over time. The solstice starts with the basic 170 hp 2.4 L but with variable valve timing (giving it 30 more hp over the current ecotec). The Saturn curve has a (turbo?) ecotec with 220-230 HP from what I've read, and the nomad had the (SC?) version with 240 HP. AND the ecotec in dragster form has well over 500hp, so this engine has potential, especially in SC/TC form to be quite powerful.

I don't see the need for a V8 or even a V6 if the ecotec keeps ramping up in power ratings over the next 5-10 years. Save the V8's for LARGE, new rear wheel drive sedans (grand prix, bonneville etc.)

 

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally posted by psychosquirrel@Feb 16 2004, 04:51 PM
I sincerely doubt the rumors of a V8 engine in ANY kappa vehicle. The "architecture" is simply NOT designed for a V8.

ALL of the vehicles run ecotec engines in a variety of displacements and configurations, blown or n.a. But don't start screaming about why you hate 4 cylinder cars....these are small vehicles and a V8 would screw up the weight and balance big time imho.

And before you complain about the ecotec consider that the engine can, and will be, seriously developed over time. The solstice starts with the basic 170 hp 2.4 L but with variable valve timing (giving it 30 more hp over the current ecotec). The Saturn curve has a (turbo?) ecotec with 220-230 HP from what I've read, and the nomad had the (SC?) version with 240 HP. AND the ecotec in dragster form has well over 500hp, so this engine has potential, especially in SC/TC form to be quite powerful.

I don't see the need for a V8 or even a V6 if the ecotec keeps ramping up in power ratings over the next 5-10 years. Save the V8's for LARGE, new rear wheel drive sedans (grand prix, bonneville etc.)

the 2.4 ecotec is the vvt motor. And if they get a power adder, it will be a turbo or supercharged verson of the 2.0 like the Ion and Cobalt to keep costs down. GM rates the 2 liter blown motor at 205hp. And im sure no one will knock the ecotec motors as they are very stout motors in terms of flexability. And how would VVT add 30hp? what kinda honda logic is that? Perhaps increase air flow and rpm range, but 30hp? Thats a big much, 10hp if anything.

 

[chev454ls]

Originally posted by AMcA@Feb 16 2004, 11:26 AM
OH, guys, I just had an idea. What would power the perfect Nomad?

How about the original size of small block V8 - a 283? As I understand it, the current LS1 is, deep in its heart of hearts, a decendent of the original small block. So could they produce a 283 size of the LS1? I bet it'd be a virtual walk in the park (OK, I hope it'd be a virtual walk in the park.)

Think about it. The current engine (the one presently in the C5) produces 340 hp from 345 cubes. So, OK, how's about a Nomad with, say, 282 hp from 283 cubes?

That wouldn't be bad, but there are two things wrong with your idea. The first Chevy smallblock was a 265. Also, if they had a 283 V8, it better have more than 282 hp.

 

[chev454ls]

Originally posted by psychosquirrel@Feb 16 2004, 11:51 AM


And before you complain about the ecotec consider that the engine can, and will be, seriously developed over time. The solstice starts with the basic 170 hp 2.4 L but with variable valve timing (giving it 30 more hp over the current ecotec). The Saturn curve has a (turbo?) ecotec with 220-230 HP from what I've read, and the nomad had the (SC?) version with 240 HP. AND the ecotec in dragster form has well over 500hp, so this engine has potential, especially in SC/TC form to be quite powerful.

GM even has a dragster pumping out at least 1000 hp with the ecotec. It has so much potential.

 

[Canuck]

I love GM V8s but they do not belong in a Kappa.
As we have seen only the Ecotec so far in Kappas does anyone know if the straight five or six GM is putting in the Canyon would fit?
I know the 5 and 6 cylinder engines are only used in trucks but if the block fits GM couldn't modify the engine to work for a car?
The demand for a V8 is twofold. GM fans love the small block and the cliche
'No replacement for displacement'
However, if the HP and torque numbers produce the performance the public wants isn't GM doing all it needs to?
The idea of a small Caddy convert built on Kappa? It would have to be built to very high standards, another small car mistake would take away all the good press, and public preception Caddy has right now. The risk is worth it but GM has to be extra careful.

 

[psychosquirrel]

"And how would VVT add 30hp? what kinda honda logic is that? Perhaps increase air flow and rpm range, but 30hp? Thats a big much, 10hp if anything."

The difference is between the 2.2 ecotec currently used by cavaliers and sunfires, it is rated at 140 hp iirc. The future solstice motor is 2.4L but it is still considered an ecotec motr and it will have 170hp the main difference is the vvt heads and the .2L displacement.

170hp -140hp = 30 new hp the math is not that hard to figure out!