Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

It's funny (sad?), today I was in Houston's "Chinatown" area (Bellaire Blvd.) and I saw 3 GM vans parked in front of a Chinese supermarket I was shopping in. They were practically the only Domestic vehicles in the lot, being used for deliveries, 90% of the rest of the cars were Toyohondassans, with a few Benz's and Audis, etc. Mostly import fare, heavily Japanese. I thought to myself "Well, at least GM and Ford still have a lock on this kind of vehicle."

With a Nissan van, that would just give an excuse to make it closer to 100%, and remove the last vehicle type that had to be branded one of the Detroit Big 3 to do business in the light truck / full-size van segment.

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

I always thought this was an area where the domestics "got it right".

Domestic full-size vans are supposed to be time-proven and bulletproof. I guess I'm wrong...

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

This news is a little surprising considering the company that's considering this move. I would've thought that Toyota would be the one looking at this market since they seem to be hell-bent on automotive world dominance. At any rate, Nissan might make a small dent in the van market, but I don't think Ford or GM will be losing any sleep for the time being.

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

Nissan would be wise to avoid the segment--it's not going to be very profitable. They would be better off building commercial delivery style vans.

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

I was just thinking about Toyota or Nissan making a fullsize van.

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

just because theyre going to build one doesnt mean it will automatically beat the domestics

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

I don't think Ford or GM will be losing any sleep for the time being.

Unfortunately a lot of people die in their sleep. onder:

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fra

I always thought this was an area where the domestics "got it right".

Domestic full-size vans are supposed to be time-proven and bulletproof. I guess I'm wrong...

Not really the "Domestic" vans (Econoline and GM) are very dated. The Econoline especially. Econoline is a 70's van... GM is still based on the 1988 pickups.

GM has very good lineup of engines.

Dodge has a good van, basically a rebadged Mercedes van made in Germany. Small diesel engine, 2,7 litre. Slow as **************** but good fuel efficiency and light. That is what is important... running costs.

GM and Ford vans are outdated firstly, but their entire conception is oudated for what most people would use them for. A Sprinter-type design would save a good percentage of fuel, for light duties like carrying dry cleaning or shuttling people around airports. And when you run a company costs are key.

There is still a place for "old" V6/V8 body on frame vans though. Example moving cube vans.

But still they are old. Very old. And the most "extra life" GM or Ford has invested into them were a swoopier grille on the GM vans...

Abandon a market and guess what happens...

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fra

Unfortunately a lot of people die in their sleep. onder:

OH SNAP!:yup:

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fra

It's funny (sad?), today I was in Houston's "Chinatown" area (Bellaire Blvd.) and I saw 3 GM vans parked in front of a Chinese supermarket I was shopping in. They were practically the only Domestic vehicles in the lot, being used for deliveries, 90% of the rest of the cars were Toyohondassans, with a few Benz's and Audis, etc. Mostly import fare, heavily Japanese. I thought to myself "Well, at least GM and Ford still have a lock on this kind of vehicle."

Yeah I know what you're talking about. My church is at US 59 and Bellaire, and my Dad is the pastor. Anyways, sometimes we go over there to eat at some of the restaurants. It just looks sad when our Suburban is the only American car around, when every where else in Houston there is more.

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

The big3 have much more to worry about than full size vans

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

They should worry about every market they are in including full size vans.

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

Pretty soon... they're going to go after the medium duty segment and try to kick out the dominance that Chevy/GMC & Ford has on that market... today, they talk about entering the heavy-duty pickup segment... the large van segment... what's next besides the medium duty commercial segment?... I dread to think about it...

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fra

just because theyre going to build one doesnt mean it will automatically beat the domestics

Tell that to the media.

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

How hard would it be to update the Express vans to the GMT900 platform? That would make alot of sense to me...

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fra

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: thats funny. Yeah, import worshipping is just pathetic, look at the whole CR fiasco of last week .

Tell that to the media.

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

Actually it seems like GM is adding content to this market, and Dodge's Sprinter is changing a lot too. It looks to me like the opposite is true, the Van buyers are loving the least changed model(Ford). GM needs to offer more configurations and more engine choices, and they will still lose a lot to the sprinter vans. 28MPG in a work van is nothing to sneeze at.

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

Also the van's are not based on any pickup platform. The van platform is basically a unibody with subframe, quite changed since 88. The cab is shared with the Kodiak and Topkick.

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

When do these vans (GM's fullsizers) get a redesign?

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

Also the van's are not based on any pickup platform. The van platform is basically a unibody with subframe, quite changed since 88. The cab is shared with the Kodiak and Topkick.

If I am not mistaken the 600 was based on a truck platform. I don't think the 610 share the frame with anyone. The 610 actually shares parts of the cab with the Kodial and Topkick.

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

When do these vans (GM's fullsizers) get a redesign?

This what I have heard in regards to the 610 updates. For the 2007 model year the 610 will get new engines with things like DoD. I have heard that GM will finally replace the current V6 with something newer. For 2008 the 610 gets an update in the interior and maybe a new grill (which they need). The interior change will mainly be to make the van meet the new safety requirements. I assume they will also improve the aesthetics of the interior. I am hoping that the grilles will be similar to the new GMT900 in regards to their aerodynamics. There has been talk of them changing the sheet metal. But the 2008 body I saw on Friday didn't appear to look different. I would like to see GM hide the hinges on the 60/40 doors and get better door handles. Again the 2008 doors I saw didn't appear to be different.

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

Nissan would be wise to avoid the segment--it's not going to be very profitable. They would be better off building commercial delivery style vans.

You are right in regards to profits. GM make more full size commercial vans than full size passenger vans. GM doesn't even really market the vans to normal consumers.

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fra

"A lot of van owners told us, 'Ford, Chrysler and GM betrayed us; they don't consider our expectations, our needs,'" said Francois Bancon, Nissan's head of product planning and development.

Has Mr. Bancon ever sit in their current van offerring, the Quest? Grant it an mini-van is not the same as a fullsize van, but the Quest isn't designed any better than the GM or Fords vans. If their full-size is anything like the current and past offerrings, then there is nothing to worry about.

-Z

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

I don't think it's to much to be afraid of. Look at the Titan. It's not a bad pickup but the quality is much worse than GM's. Most full size van owners use them for work or business. They want a reliable van they can count on. Though not a Ford fan, we have a Ford 1 ton diesel van at work that is a good truck. I really don't care that the interior is not as refined as an Infiniti, looks like a brick, has a few rattles and hasn't been changed much since Reagan was president. The thing runs great and hauls big loads great. And the good part is if it needs repaired, I can take it to the local garage. Repairs and parts are easy and cheap. GM vans are the same. Reliable and cheap to run. Sure, Nissan and Toyota would get a few sales, but as they found out in full-size pickups, it's not an easy nut to crack. You have to have a wide range of choices to play in this game and I can't see Nissan or Toyota competing seriously for the small amount of sales in a non-growing class of vehicles. Not like full-size pickups, where there is a real chance to sell alot of vehicles. They have trouble selling 100,000 Titans and pickup sales are 10 times van sales. A big investment for at the most, 15 to 20,000 sales a year in a stagnant market that will never get bigger. Besides, truck and full-size van owners are more brand loyal than car owners. They tend to rely on them for a living and go with practicality and ease of ownership over something a little sleeker styled or a fancier interior. Especially one with questionable quality.

 

Re: GM's Full Size Vans: Another Unprotected Flank? NISSAN Considers Joining the Fray

I've always wondered about the full-sized van segment and how little attention it gets. Perhaps its not a profitable segment, not sure.

Personally, I've always felt that these vehicles could use a bit more style. I wonder if it will be an off-shore competitor that finally delivers a stylish van.