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Next-gen Saab 9-3 Halted
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EMISSIONS AND FUEL ECONOMY???? IN A SAAB????
What a completely LAME excuse.
Saab's engine management system is one of the BEST in the business!!! GM shouldn't even start throwing that ridiculous reason around. EMISSIONS MY ASS!!
Moving 9-3 to Delta II is actually very smart, I think. As I said in the Delta II thread, Delta II is slightly larger than the 3-series benchmark in this class. If the 9-3 was about the same size (maybe a bit larger) than the 3-series, and packed the same punch and added XWD for an Aero or Viggen version, I seriously think Saab would once again have a car that ran with the 3-series with no hesitation.
But saying EMISSIONS?? Saab's history has been VERY green!!! That is simply a lame ass reason.
What a completely LAME excuse.
Saab's engine management system is one of the BEST in the business!!! GM shouldn't even start throwing that ridiculous reason around. EMISSIONS MY ASS!!
Moving 9-3 to Delta II is actually very smart, I think. As I said in the Delta II thread, Delta II is slightly larger than the 3-series benchmark in this class. If the 9-3 was about the same size (maybe a bit larger) than the 3-series, and packed the same punch and added XWD for an Aero or Viggen version, I seriously think Saab would once again have a car that ran with the 3-series with no hesitation.
But saying EMISSIONS?? Saab's history has been VERY green!!! That is simply a lame ass reason.
i am a 9-3 owner and I think this is the right move regardless of the reasons. One of the things I love about my car is the size and weight. Yes, I would like more rear seat room but I like the idea of a even lighter 9-3. It sounds like Delta 2 will be very versatile. If the 9-1 and 9-3 can be built on the same platform that will keep costs down, and allow GM to build the car in many different factories.
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I don't care what the reason is... I've been wanting a small sports car. Now if only it was RWD...
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on RWD is kind of the equivalent of putting
It's a Saab for christ sake. No RWD needed, or wanted. Saab is about great handling in snow, efficienct sporty engines with great torque, and unique interiors.
A RWD Saab is like having a FWD Camaro. It just doesn't work.
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But it almost happend back in the 80s.. GM actually developed a FWD F-body chasis I belive... hell the ford probe was orginally going to be the replacment for the mustang..
an AWD for the 9-3 would be a good idea, rear bias it, and you have a good all around car...
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A Delta I is slightly larger than a 3-series. A larger Delta II -- maybe one that's wider and slightly longer should be able to do the job nicely.
If you look at the numbers, using the Chevy Cobalt...
Cobalt is 180.3 inches. The 9-3 is 182 inches. And with a width of 67 inches, the Cobalt is about the same size as the first 9-3's.
This move is more than acceptable!
I would hope GMDAT has built in a lot of flexibility into Delta II.
9-5 will sit perfectly on Epsilon II. It'll probably be lengthened. it doesn't need to be... but it will probably be lengthened.
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The 9-5 will go onto an extended Ep2 platform. So it will be even bigger than the OPEL Insignia, which is as big as the Ford Modeo (Europe) and VW Passat.
For the past 5 years the 9-5 has only marginally been larger than the 9-3.
In 2009 the 9-5 will be a far bigger vehicle and will be on par with the likes of the 5-series and A6.
Autoblog give the impression that the next gen 9-3 will be smaller than its predecessor but that is more media hype. Moving to Delta or an extended delta platform doesn't mean size should decrease from the current model.
However; forever increasing fuel prices and future government emission regulations are a great factor. I'm paying an equvalent of $8.97 for a Gallon for premium unleaded fuel right now, so fuel is big issue in Europe. then throw road tax into the picture for good measure which For europe this will mean Euro 6 by 2012. So purchasing a vehicle that will not cost a fortune to run in the future will need serious consideration. But at least Euro 6 doesn't compare to the US 50-State emission regulations which is a huge challenge when considering the introduction of diesel.
On the whole, moving to Delta is quite a clever idea not to mention that if Saab stuck with epsilon the question would have to asked whether it would be worth putting an All New 9-3 on a 5 year old platform or wait another 2 years for Epsilon 3.
For the past 5 years the 9-5 has only marginally been larger than the 9-3.
In 2009 the 9-5 will be a far bigger vehicle and will be on par with the likes of the 5-series and A6.
Autoblog give the impression that the next gen 9-3 will be smaller than its predecessor but that is more media hype. Moving to Delta or an extended delta platform doesn't mean size should decrease from the current model.
However; forever increasing fuel prices and future government emission regulations are a great factor. I'm paying an equvalent of $8.97 for a Gallon for premium unleaded fuel right now, so fuel is big issue in Europe. then throw road tax into the picture for good measure which For europe this will mean Euro 6 by 2012. So purchasing a vehicle that will not cost a fortune to run in the future will need serious consideration. But at least Euro 6 doesn't compare to the US 50-State emission regulations which is a huge challenge when considering the introduction of diesel.
On the whole, moving to Delta is quite a clever idea not to mention that if Saab stuck with epsilon the question would have to asked whether it would be worth putting an All New 9-3 on a 5 year old platform or wait another 2 years for Epsilon 3.
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I wonder if I am being too hopeful about E-Flex being an effective high torque high mileage powertrain that GM could apply across its product line? Perhaps a smaller Saab could benefit from it, or the S-class fighting Cadillac "super sedan" could offer awesome power yet mileage figures far in excess of the new CAFE requirements with a larger more potent version of E-Flex. I really like the idea of GM "reinventing" the auto and leap frogging the competition with an undeniable, out-of-the-park home run, and keep hoping/imagining that E-Flex will bring that to fruition.
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wow so SAAB has to carry on with a super old 9-5 and now we're going to have to go longer with the MCE'd 9-3?
wow.. good going GM... talk about product starvation
wow.. good going GM... talk about product starvation
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If the 9-3 were developed on a smaller (Delta II) platform, at least now there would be a significant difference in size between the 9-3 and 9-5. Believe it or not, the two cars are very similar in interior size, largely within fractions of an inch.
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I saw a 9-3 in a parking lot I drove by, it caused me to turn my head, I didn't know what it was at first. But, it looked good.
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Seems like we were talking about this earlier in the week; sounds like the 93 will be Cobalted instead of Insigniated! To better differentiate from the 95, it also makes sense; by engine, performance, and size.
I have a 900 and it is just the right size for me. It is not too wide, such as our favorite midsizers, but nice and tight, yet long enough to stick adults in the backseat. The current 93 is becoming an executive car and lacks the intimacies that previous generations were accustomed to. But think of it this way, the next 93 could push 35 mpg and easily have 230+hp standard; as well as bio fuel capabilities and who knows what else. It is a good time to down size because eventually, everyone will need to.
I have a 900 and it is just the right size for me. It is not too wide, such as our favorite midsizers, but nice and tight, yet long enough to stick adults in the backseat. The current 93 is becoming an executive car and lacks the intimacies that previous generations were accustomed to. But think of it this way, the next 93 could push 35 mpg and easily have 230+hp standard; as well as bio fuel capabilities and who knows what else. It is a good time to down size because eventually, everyone will need to.
You are right about the Cobalt and the current Astra 4-Door sold in Eastern Europe and in Brazil as the Vectra is nearly identical to the 9-3 with a longer wheelbase 106.4 and nearly the same width which will most likely grow to 69-70 inches on the Delta II.
Overall this is a good move by GM as it will put some space between the 9-3 and 9-5 and if I am not mistaken the 9-X was derived from the GAMMA which could become the 9-1 series.
The 9-3 4-door can have xWD and high output turbo for a EVO competitor that will stack up well against the A3/A4 as well as AWD competition for the 1 and 3 series.
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