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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My current run-about is starting to chew my money at an ever increasing rate. So I was look around for a possible replacement when I stumbled upon a Mint(looks it anyway) condition 1995 Peugeot 405 D70 Mi16.

So does anyone know much about this model? Are they reliable or costly to repair?

It has less than:
Kms <110000
Miles <68200




Any knowledge would help.....


TIA
 

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13 year old French car... how can you go wrong?
If you know what you are doing then you can't.
One of my best customers is French(American Citizen now...since 1984)and his cars are beautiful.
He has learned the fine art of restoring vehicles.

He knows I want his 1995 Audi 6 Wagon. hehe!
 

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If you know what you are doing then you can't.
One of my best customers is French(American Citizen now...since 1984)and his cars are beautiful.
He has learned the fine art of restoring vehicles.

He knows I want his 1995 Audi 6 Wagon. hehe!
Well, when you put it that way, I certainly can see how your desire for an Audi shows that you can't go wrong with a 13 year old French car. I cannot say that I am surprised that a Frenchman has mastered the art of repairing -- excuse me, restoring -- his cars.
 

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I am sure there are a great many things in this world Ron that would 'surprise you'.
 

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After my experiences with Renault...I'd never buy one if I had the opportunity, even for $50!:yup:
From a 1986 Mississippi Supreme Court opinion:

On April 13, 1981, Rester purchased a demonstrator 1981 model Renault series 18i with 2,915 miles from Morrow in Hattiesburg, paying $8,800 cash.
...
While driving the car preparatory to purchase, a piece of chrome trim about one inch square fell off the windshield in heavy traffic. Rester did not stop to pick it up, and Morrow promised to replace it.

Just after his purchase, Rester drove the car to Florida on vacation, and was gone ten or eleven days. He reported to Morrow the following defects he had found in the car:

(1) When the hazard light (flasher signals) were turned on, the radio also came on.

(2) There was a gasoline odor in the car, noticeable mainly while driving without the air conditioner on. The odor could be detected in the trunk.

(3) When operating the air conditioner leaked heavily on the right side of the car.

(4) The car was equipped with a gauge which indicated the oil level, which Rester called the oil indicator gauge (not to be confused with an oil pressure gauge). This oil indicator gauge was not working.

...
He telephoned Morrow that the air conditioner had started leaking again, and Morrow told him to bring the car in. After being in the shop the second time, Rester noticed the low speed fan motor of the air conditioner was not working. Morrow told him this was a problem with these cars...

He noticed the air conditioner leaking again. He took the car to Morrow's on a Monday, Morrow told Rester that the mechanic had quit. ...

Rester said the air conditioner went out of control while he was attending school in Baton Rouge; when the air conditioner was turned off it still ran. If the heater was turned on, the air conditioner ran instead. Rester said he could still smell gas in the car if the car was running, the windows were down, and the air conditioner was off. He said the air conditioner and gas fumes were a real annoyance, aside from the delay factor.

Rester left Baton Rouge for New Orleans. While in New Orleans late one night, after he had filled the gas tank, Rester drove for some distance with the car running smoothly, and then the lights began to get dimmer and dimmer, the battery progressively weaker. Finally, the car went dead, and Rester had to tow it to a friend's house. ...

One night after he returned to New Orleans, Rester went to a night club in Metairie, Louisiana. As he was leaving around midnight, the car had no power. There were no lights, it would not crank. ...

Rester telephoned Foshee and told him what was wrong with the car, that the air conditioner was all messed up. Foshee told him he would order the parts and send them to Martin's. Rester told Foshee he did not want a Martin or Morrow mechanic working on the car, and was promised by Foshee that he would bring the parts to Hattiesburg, and also his own mechanic from Stone Mountain, Georgia, to fix the car.

In September, while he was waiting on his car to be repaired, it stalled twice. Rester also smelled gas fumes. When he drove the car home, he could hear the “battery frying”. When he opened the hood, the car was burning the battery up, and Rester thought the alternator was charging too much.

When he later met with Foshee at Martin's in Hattiesburg, Rester reported to Foshee the following problems with the car:

1. The air conditioner was worse than ever.

2. The piece of chrome was still missing.

3. The carpet was bad from water leaking on it.

4. A problem had developed in the rachet adjusting in the passenger seat.

5. Gas fumes could still be detected.

6. The fuse panel had fallen from under the dash.

7. The oil indicator gauge was not working.

8. The stalling problem.

9. The battery smelled like it was burning up.

At one time Morrow had drilled a hole in the gasoline cap, but this still did not stop the odor. They told him to cut some apples and put in the trunk , but this still did not stop the odor.

...Foshee also told Rester that part of his problem was the close proximity of the battery to the catalytic converter, which would be repaired by simply putting a shield between them, which they would install.

...
Two days later, Rester inquired by telephone about his car, and was told by the Martin service manager that they had discovered something wrong with the alternator, and had ordered parts from California, which would take about seven days delivery.

...

[Owner's testimony:]
With the fuel odor problem. Not actually the fuel odor problem, but it has a recall notice to the fact stating that you might be driving the car and it would have a problem as though it would run out of gas and it was something about the gasoline was eating up the glue or whatever the line was put together in the fuel line and causing it to stop up or contaminance [contaminants] to get in the gas and causing it to die and it had done this to me on two occasions already and I was told by Tommy Morrow and them that I had just let it run out of gas one of the occasions and on the other occasion I didn't even bring it up.
...

I said, ‘Well, if this other yo-yo worked on it and couldn't fix it the first time, there's no way in the world I'll accept the car. He's worked on it this time and he couldn't fix the air conditioner, what's to guarantee him to fix the electrical condition or anything.’ So I refused the car ....


After Rester had employed counsel, he received a January 26, 1982, notice from AMC which stated the following defect:

American Motors Sales Corporation had determined that a defect which relates to motor vehicle safety exists in some 1981 Renault 18i vehicles. Some of these vehicles may have been assembled with a fuel line that could develop a leak near the engine, resulting in a fuel odor or an underhood engine compartment fire. Should you notice a fuel odor, the vehicle should be stopped and not driven until repaired.

On March 18, 1982, Rester brought suit in the Circuit Court of Forrest County against Morrow, Martin and AMC. His testimony was as above set forth. Also testifying was an employee of the local bank. When Rester rested, the defendants moved for a directed verdict. See Rule 50(a), Miss.R.Civ.P.
 

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I was comparison shopping between a..


Sterling 825 SLi
Maserati BiTurbo
Alfa Romeo 164
Cadillac Seville Diesel
A Safe Falling on my head
Renault Medallion
Peugeot 505 S
Herpes and
a Chrysler TC
 

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The Mi16s are pretty unique to the whole 405 range, so maintenance may not be that easy. That said, they enjoyed very good reviews as the "underdog road-legal rally car", and the 405 range is generally mechanically simple (Peugeot learned from experience to make it as simple as possible, they were one of the first to go multiplex and all) and proved rather robust and durable.

In Europe, Pugs do require regular maintenance and replace parts that you may not expect to replace on your car (like complete exhausts - they just wear out), but even branded parts are relatively cheap, as is Peugeot's service (PSA makes Peugeot shops run a unified, favorable pricing system). Also, quite many technicians know how to deal with the cars.

Dunno about Aus though...

I'd take the plunge if the owner lives in your area - perhaps he has a good garage who takes care of it. If he is a DIY kind of guy (and you are too), make sure he will be available to give you some guidance during your first months with the Pug.
 

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I had a 1989 Peugeot 405 that I loved. It steered and handled better than any car I've ever driven. I loved the look too. The problem was it was in the shop an awful lot and the closest mechanic I could find was 25 miles away. Peugeots have a problem with body rot.
 

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On April 13, 1981, Rester purchased a demonstrator 1981 model Renault series 18i with 2,915 miles from Morrow in Hattiesburg, paying $8,800 cash

Think about that for a minute, this person willingly paid over $8000 in cash for a French car

This guy got everything he deserved, think of the REAL cars that you could have bought for $8,800 in 1981.

You could have bought a nice Buick Regal or Olds Cutlass, a Pontiac Bonneville or a Camaro or a Firebird,but no, Mr Weirdo I want to be different foreign stuff rules had to go a buy a Renault, I hope he really liked it.

heck, even base 81 Pontiac Trans Am was about $8,600
 

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Think about that for a minute, this person willingly paid over $8000 in cash for a French car

This guy got everything he deserved, think of the REAL cars that you could have bought for $8,800 in 1981.

You could have bought a nice Buick Regal or Olds Cutlass, a Pontiac Bonneville or a Camaro or a Firebird,but no, Mr Weirdo I want to be different foreign stuff rules had to go a buy a Renault, I hope he really liked it.

heck, even base 81 Pontiac Trans Am was about $8,600
Well real cars... I mean these were the days of 140 hp Trans Am's and 110hp Regals... they were pretty sucky ;)



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My current run-about is starting to chew my money at an ever increasing rate.

So does anyone know much about this model? Are they reliable or costly to repair?
Sorry Fish, I've only a smattering of knowledge on the Mi16 :eek:

By all accounts they're an absolutely brilliant drive and I also admit to having been tempted by this model. Btw I would be equally (if not more) tempted by a good one of > THESE < which shares the powertrain with Mi16 or the very pretty Xantia Turbo - both are even moreso under-appreciated market orphans than the Pug.

However as with any specialist euro, I wouldn't recommend this type of machine to anyone wishing to save money, which is the logic behind your purchase consideration!

Some Mi16 ownership reports I've seen tell a positive tale of (surprisingly) very rugged and high-quality engines and drivetrains, with much of the rest of the car possessing relatively minor foibles and idiosyncracies relative to any enthusiast-focussed performance car - euro or not.

Other stories you see are full of woe, but reading through the lines the cause often seems tracable to either an already-flogged or tired example, or hopeless standards of maintenance and care from non-enthusiast owners and/or non-expert mechanics.

Peugeot dealership servicing would not be cheap, nor new OE parts I imagine. A mate's 405 SR went well enough for 8 years and was quite solid for its age but dealership servicing was too expensive.

Maybe try surfing through aussiefrogs for better-quality local information?
http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php

You can sometimes pick up good model-specific tidbits (including AU contributions) of various cars when picking through this site
http://www.carsurvey.org/

Fwiw in regards to the Peugeot brand, I don't perceive current or recent Pugs to be especially convincing prospects, above their competition. Conversely my wife long-term owned an already well-used 205 (basic 1.1L) which proved itself extremely reliable and in summary was an all-round gas to drive and own, a faithful servant. As a then euro-skeptic that little car really impressed me!
Smart Aas Saabr said:
Well real cars... I mean these were the days of 140 hp Trans Am's and 110hp Regals... they were pretty sucky
Let's modify a quote from the great AU racer Peter Brock:

I think I'd prefer to throw up than back a Regal down a driveway. :yup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Sorry Fish, I've only a smattering of knowledge on the Mi16 :eek:

By all accounts they're an absolutely brilliant drive and I also admit to having been tempted by this model. Btw I would be equally (if not more) tempted by a good one of > THESE < which shares the powertrain with Mi16 or the very pretty Xantia Turbo - both are even moreso under-appreciated market orphans than the Pug.

However as with any specialist euro, I wouldn't recommend this type of machine to anyone wishing to save money, which is the logic behind your purchase consideration!
No don't get me wrong, I am not too concerned about the cost of running it. I push my cars hard on the weekends, and my fuel eco. would make some V8's blush. It's just my car is at 300,000 Km and I am pretty sure the motor is dieing(main bearings and there seams to be a blockage in the oil flow to the head). I also need about $1,000 to make it road legal and $500 to fix some annoying problems.

Some Mi16 ownership reports I've seen tell a positive tale of (surprisingly) very rugged and high-quality engines and drivetrains, with much of the rest of the car possessing relatively minor foibles and idiosyncracies relative to any enthusiast-focussed performance car - euro or not.

Other stories you see are full of woe, but reading through the lines the cause often seems tracable to either an already-flogged or tired example, or hopeless standards of maintenance and care from non-enthusiast owners and/or non-expert mechanics.

Peugeot dealership servicing would not be cheap, nor new OE parts I imagine. A mate's 405 SR went well enough for 8 years and was quite solid for its age but dealership servicing was too expensive.
:yup: Just been in contact with a few shops and the say the same thing.

Maybe try surfing through aussiefrogs for better-quality local information?
http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php

You can sometimes pick up good model-specific tidbits (including AU contributions) of various cars when picking through this site
http://www.carsurvey.org/

Fwiw in regards to the Peugeot brand, I don't perceive current or recent Pugs to be especially convincing prospects, above their competition. Conversely my wife long-term owned an already well-used 205 (basic 1.1L) which proved itself extremely reliable and in summary was an all-round gas to drive and own, a faithful servant. As a then euro-skeptic that little car really impressed me!:
:clap:thanks for the help.


Let's modify a quote from the great AU racer Peter Brock:

I think I'd prefer to throw up than back a Regal down a driveway. :yup:
:lmao:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Also thanks Ttple & Bravada.:cool:
 

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Well real cars... I mean these were the days of 140 hp Trans Am's and 110hp Regals... they were pretty sucky ;)

Yet somewhat preserved examples of such still sell today in good demand...at least in my little corner of the world...yes, even the Citation!

I can't remember the last time I saw an 18i or LeCar...
 
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