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Navigator Body Slams Escalde in Comparo

19K views 171 replies 39 participants last post by  AndrewGS 
#1 ·
http://www.car-revs-daily.com/2014/10/06/road-test-review-2015-lincoln-navigator/

Re: 2015 Lincoln Navigator Review


"This is where the real surprises started to sink in. The Navigator is much, much quieter than the Escalade EXT we drove right afterward. Where the Cadillac is all wind whistle around the mirrors, the Navigator is peaceful and silent even at full throttle. The Cadillac Escalade has big V8 exhaust drone, and this is fun at first but can be tiring versus total silence."

"But most surprising is how much lower the floor feels versus the Escalade EXT and its twin second-row chairs. The standard-length Navigator here is much easier to move around inside than the standard-length Escalade, with roominess that is more like the EXT overall. But even the Escalade EXT has such a high floor that the central row is better-crawled than walked."

"But is it quick? Yes, yes it is. After a millisecond of fluff while the engine comes on-steam, the Navigator charges ahead on a floored throttle very eagerly. In 2WD, the Navigatar had solid traction where the Escalade EXT was all axle tramp and spinning inside tire. That Escalade had shockingly little grip in 2WD mode versus the Navigator, and rode much springier than the hunkered-down and chill Navigator too."

"Both the Escalade and the Navigator have gen-three magneto-rheological shocks, but their tuning is totally different. The Escalade offers Touring and Sport – and both are too firm. The Navigator feels much nimbler while also riding much, *much* smoother and more quietly over bumps. This amazing suspension control lets the 22-inch wheels have only grip benefits and none of the ride harshness consequences that big wheels typically bring."
 
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#6 ·
Yes.

Judging by the factual inaccuracies of the article and the "Navigator wins in every metric" decision of the article from a no-name website... I'm calling this article total bull****.

I'm no fan of the new Escalade and I actually like the new Navigator, but no.

Nice try, wingsnut.
 
#8 ·
That read like a Lincoln advert through the eyes of a Ford fanboy, except for the part where the writer thought the Navi had the same Magnetic Ride Control system as GM (wtf?).

Praise for the Navi's ancient-looking interior? Really? Shock and awe over second row climate control and power outlets? You can get that much in sub-$30k crossovers.

As far as price goes, you can comment on the value aspect of the Lincoln all you want, as long as you recognize that the Cadillac looks every bit of $20,000 more luxurious inside and out. Which brings me to my next point: the Navigator is a GMC Yukon competitor. If value is even a factor, you won't be shopping Escalades, which is true of any genuine luxury vehicle.
 
#13 ·


Looks like they have 73% of the market for breathing room. A monumental shift isn't going to happen overnight... and do you mean the 10 speed GM is co-developing with Ford? By the time the trans and the updates come out... probably 2017.

If YOU know, do you think GM doesn't? New trucks are already slated for 2019.

...or do you not understand what product cadence is?
 
#15 ·
GM really should have put some engineering into the latest Escalade. It appears Lincoln could take a bigger bite of the luxury SUV market.
It is nice to see some real competition and things can only advance from here. GM needs to finally put independent rear suspension in the Escalade as it is obvious from this review the Navigator has the superior ride and handling.
 
#26 · (Edited)
*Sigh*

This takes away from the fact that Ford actually did a pretty decent job upgrading the Navigator on a shoestring budget, at least to my eyes. Such a blatant fluff piece reeks of desperation; if it was driven back-to-back with the Escalade, why aren't there pictures to back up the claims? Let the reader decide!
 
#28 ·
I'm not saying the Navigator is a bad truck, but at the moment, it's obviously one rung below the Escalade in a lot of ways. With the Escalade, you get more, and you pay more.

Next generation will be another story, unless GM pulls one heck of a rabbit out of their hat.
 
#33 ·
hey guys!

first off, thanks to OP for sharing article.

i wrote that review... and have been very interested in the critiques here, like calling the ESV the EXT by mistake. Updated with corrections.

http://www.car-revs-daily.com/2014/10/06/road-test-review-2015-lincoln-navigator/




But most interested in the magneto-rheological shocks discussion. We updated the review to reflect Lincoln's name for the adapative suspension -- which is called CCD with Nivomat load-leveling. Nowhere in the Lincoln specs does it describe these as magnetic, but we are fairly certain the Lincoln people did say they were in person. An email is out to them now to find out for sure.

In terms of ride/handling - we were as surprised as you guys are. The ESV seemed sloppy in comparison, and really needs a LSD in back or to be left in 4-auto all the time for hard driving. 4K video and a drive review of the Escalade ESV coming soon, so you can see for yourself.

But we are not an intern writing this, or even a fanboy. If anything, more of a Cadillac fan. Evidence? almost 100 photos of the 2015 Escalade Platinum and 2015 Escalade from the Cadillac booth at Pebble Beach. You won't find these anywhere else on the web, either. =]

Overall, thanks for the feedback. We will update the article again when Lincoln PR people reply to our suspension question.

NAVIGATOR REVIEW LINK
http://www.car-revs-daily.com/2014/10/06/road-test-review-2015-lincoln-navigator/



ESCALADE PLATINUM and 2015 ESCALADE Link
http://www.car-revs-daily.com/2014/08/24/2015-cadillac-escalade-platinum-world-debut-in-pebble-beach/

 

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#34 ·
Thank you draketank,
I enjoyed the article and thought you did a good job with it. I don’t expect many GM loyalists to be happy with it, regardless. So don’t expect apologies from them when you make the corrections.

What should be most evident here is that it was not a close race in many metrics. Metrics that matter, like ride, NVH, handling, performance, etc. The uber expensive caddy just came up short. And I would say better luck next time, but next time will be far more than an update from Lincoln. So I expect a much bigger pounding for the Escalade.
 
#38 ·
Thank you draketank,I enjoyed the article and thought you did a good job with it. I don’t expect many GM loyalists to be happy with it, regardless. So don’t expect apologies from them when you make the corrections.
Regardless of the articles, Escalade lot more competitive than the Navigator. Sales prove it.

Escalade can be sold above 80 000 USD, unlike Navigator. Escalade looks expensive and has a luxurious interior materials and high-tech options (HUD, MRC, configurable dashboard etc).

Navigator has an ugly appearance (1996 year), cheap plastic interior and dashboard from the Explorer. V8? No, only the V6 Turbo. Lincoln jokes :D

What should be most evident here is that it was not a close race in many metrics. Metrics that matter, like ride, NVH, handling, performance, etc. The uber expensive caddy just came up short. And I would say better luck next time, but next time will be far more than an update from Lincoln. So I expect a much bigger pounding for the Escalade
By 2017 the Escalade will receive equipment from the flagship CT6. By this time, people will forget about the Navigator.
 
#35 ·
#37 ·
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#40 ·
I don't understand the sales argument on previous vehicles. These are two very different vehicles, and forthcoming sales will determine success or failure, not past sales.

Everyone knows the Navi was ugly and underpowered. That is not the case anymore.
And there simply is no way the new Escalade, which is not as attractive as previous and far more money, will sell more than it did, once sales settle. Between the two, I predict the Navi will catch up.
 
#43 ·
I don't understand the sales argument on previous vehicles. These are two very different vehicles, and forthcoming sales will determine success or failure, not past sales.
Really? You don't see how starting with a 70+% market share is a pretty good starting point for a newly redesigned vehicle? Sure, it has to exceed the previous model AND the competition, but past sales figures on vehicles that are significantly updated but sit in the same market position most certainly ARE useful. None of this says how the Navigator will sell tomorrow, but starting from behind isn't the easiest position.
 
#47 ·
hey guys,
Just closing the loop on this. Heard back from Lincoln and the article is updated to reflect the correct suspension info.

Yes, you smarties were correct: the Navigator does not utilize magneto-rehologic ride control from tier1 supplier Delphi. Here is the verbatim reply from Lincoln:

"""The Nivomat is a Monotube Shock Absorber which also provides
a Leveling Feature (Self-Leveling System).
This is accomplished by utilizing the energy generated by the
relative movement between axle and body when driving.
It is completely Self-contained and self-energizing.

As for CCD:

I don't think the fluid in the tube has metal bits that are magnetized."""



In terms of how many mistakes one author can make, it turns out... the answer is *a lot.* Not having an editor is a blessing and a curse.

But overall, I encourage you to read the article. The NVH and handling conclusions about the Navigator are sound. Even without MRC, the Nav rides smoother and handles better than the ESV in either Touring or Sport.

Cheers fellas. Before hating on the Nav, a 5-min drive of your own might be very enlightening.

http://www.car-revs-daily.com/2014/10/06/road-test-review-2015-lincoln-navigator/
 
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