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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
2b2 said:
AR, still not sure about your pricing - the spread seems a bit too broad & there are a couple 'holes' (betwn Corsa[]Astra & Aura[_]Signum). Don't you think the fully loaded version of one should overlap a touch on the base price of the next-size-up?

Also can Saturn have that 'Signum' (is it larger than Aura too?) without crowding Buick?
In case this came across as too much criticism, just want to say again how much I appreciate your Ideal Lineup threads & the dedication to keep them going.


Here's my latest thinking in chart form

yeah - considering One mid-range domestic division,
& this doesn't show the cuv-suv-whatevers or GMC.
I used the term 'Pkg' to address offering a version of another "sub-brand's" car. At this point I'm thinking they'd be badged with just the model/Pkg name - not sure if there'd be a name for the div/super-brand, tho with GMC, maybe GM-Connection conveys the idea... hmmm, does anyone use 'connection' yet?

I'll prolley post in your NA Market thread later (really like that you're doing a BigPicture thread).
Constructive criticism is more than welcome! Glad you like what I'm doing. I see what you mean be the gaps, that is a good piont. As for the overlap, there's always going to be some overlap with GM being as big as it is. What needs to be done is to have them differentiated in price, features, design, and target market. While Buick would be going more for doctors and lawyers, Saturn would be going more for the affluent, young business people. Cadillac going for the overall wealthy market.
 

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I like the idea of the Signum going to NA.. This might actually sell well as it's got huge space at very good value (well certainly when you demand discounts in Vauxhall dealers)

However, I'm not sure Signum (or a similar product) should be Saturn.. possibly Buik. I don't know why, but when I look at it I just don't see Saturn and where the brand is going i.e. smaller, more youth-ish cars whereas Signum could have a much greater chance if Buik sells it instead
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Some noticable updates!
 

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Corsa $12,000-$17,500
The new Opel Corsa as-is. The DI 1.8L is the only engine avaliable, good for 160 HP. Based on the Delta II.
I prefer the 1.6 Turbo from the GSI (150hp) as standard and the OPC version (192hp) for the RL. Both have Overboost for a quick take over even in the highest gear (6th).
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Redline added.
 

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Here's mine:
Saturn Signal Gamma, Corsa. 3 and 5 Door.
Saturn Astra Delta II, Opel Astra. 3 and 5 Door and a sedan.
Saturn Aura Epsilon II, Insignia. Sedan and wagon.
Saturn Tigra Gamma, Tigra.
Saturn Sky Kappa, Sky.
Saturn VUE Theta II, Antara.
Saturn Outlook Lambda.
Saturn Flextreme Saturn's Zafira, compact minivan on E-Flex Delta II.
 

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AR: 138 horses would be more than class-competitive in the Corsa. DI makes things too expensive and complicated.
 

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Corsa-2 and 4 dr.
Astra-SEDAN, 3 door and 5 door Hatch.
Aura.
Vue.
Sky.

Get rid of the Outlook-does not fit in with Opel lineup.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Heavy engine updates!
 

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I like this lineup.

I think the Signum is going to take some time to swallow, but it will eventually happen. Everything looks good....hopefully Saturn will keep the euro drive experience by offering good handling, fuel economy, and manuals.
 

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agila-
1.0 cyl,1.0 turbo 3 cyl on xr red line 1.4 turbo 5 spd auto
corsa-
1.0 turbo 3 cyl on xe,1.4 on xr 2.0 turbo on red line
astra-
1.4 standard on xe 1.4 turbo on xr 2.3 turbo on red line sedan model
insignia-
2.0 turbo,2.4 4 cyl,3.6 di,3.6 di turbo on red line coupe wagon sedan
sky-
same
vue-
aluminum hood and tailgate to take of a few lbs.add 2.3 4cyl,2 mode 4 cyl
outlook-
opel zafira 1.4 turbo on xe,2.0 turbo xr
 

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Here's my Saturn lineup. In order to differentiate Saturn, it is sold as plug-in versions of Opels, which are built to be plug-in optional in Europe.

Saturn Ion - The Opel Agila, could also be called Swift or Agila, but I think Ion sounds cool for a small electric car.
Saturn Corsa - The Opel Corsa.
Saturn Meriva - Based on the Meriva concept.
Saturn Astra - Next-gen Astra.
Saturn Flextreme - The Flextreme concept, which replaces the Zafira.
Saturn Aura - Opel Insignia sedan and wagon.
Saturn Vue - Opel Antara.
Saturn Sky - Opel GT.

No need to spend research money on saturn, just give them an advertising budget.
 

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MY DREAM SATURN LINE-UP RE-DO

Agila 11.5k-15k
Gamma II 3&5 door hatch
XE-1.0 3 cyl 75hp
XR-1.2 3 cyl 95hp
D-1.0 3 cyl diesel 90 hp
Redline- 1.2 turbo 3 cyl 120 hp

Corsa 12.5k-15.5k
Gamma II 3&5 door hatch, convt,sedan
XE-1.2 turbo 3 cyl 120 hp
XR-1.4 turbo 4cyl 130hp
D-1.4 diesel 115 hp
Redline-1.6 turbo 150hp

Astra 17k-23k
Delta II 3 & 5 door hatch,convt,sedan,wagon
XE-1.4 turbo 130hp
XR-1.4 turbo 140hp
D-1.4 diesel 120 hp
Redline-2.0turbo 200hp

Aura 23.5k-27.5k
Epsillon II coupe,sedan,convt,wagon
XE-1.6 turbo 150hp
XR-2.0 4cyl 190 hp;3.0 turbo v6 250hp
D-2.0 diesel 185hp
Redline-3.6 di v6 280 hp

Sky 24k-31k
Alpha roadtser
XE-1.6 turbo 4 150 hp
XR-2.0 turbo 4 220 hp
D-2.0 diesel 185 hp
Redline-2.0 turbo 4 cyl 260 hp

PreVue 21k-25k
Gamma II cuv
XE-1.4 t. 140hp
XR-1.6 t 160 hp
D-2.0 diesel 185 hp

Vue 23k-29k
Theta II CUV
XE-1.6 t 160hp
XR-2.0 t 200hp
D-2.0 t 185 hp

Outlook 26k-30k
Delta II MPV,based on opel zafira
XE-1.4 t 140hp
XR-2.0 t 200hp
D-2.0 t 185 hp

**** All saturns have a hybrid availible in BAS II on XE models & D models,2 mode,or plug-in on XR models****
 

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I don't think there's much that I would do to alter Saturn's current lineup because it actually is quite good. Anyway here's the changes that I would make:

Astra: New Opel Astra, offer variety of engines like in Europe (i.e. diesel, turbo, hybrid etc.) 6-Speed Manual and 6-Speed Auto transmissions.

Aura: New Opel Insignia, offer more fuel efficient engines including new 3.6L Hybrid V6 like Saturn Vue. 6-Speed Auto only

Vue: Drop LY7 V6 and 3.5L OHV V6 and replace with DI 3.6 on Redline and the 3.2L Holden High Feature V6 as the XE/XR V6 option. 6-Speed Auto only.

Outlook: Offer Hybrid version of V6.

Sky: Drop 2.4L ECOTEC keep 2.0L DI Turbo, new interior, 6-Speed Man & Auto transmissions.
 

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Kill Saturn. Kill it now.

The brand should have never existed (why didn't GM pour the money spent on Saturn into simply developing class-leading Cavaliers and Malibus?).

Saturn is a bone that GM won't let go of. They don't want to kill the brand because that's admitting the entire project was a mistake from the get-go. Saturn was no more than an experiment to copy Japanese production/management techniques. The venture was made even more pointless by the fact that after pouring billions into Saturn, it didn't lead to anything that made GM able to produce small cars any more cheaply.

If GM wants to sell Opels here, they should call them Opels; and given the amazingly positive response here on GMI to the Opel name, I'd say this would be GM's best move: axe Saturn and Pontiac and replace both with Opel.
 

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Saturn and most likely Buick will be the least likely to go. GMC brings down the corporate fuel economy, Pontiac doesn't have a following and has more of a negative stereo type than Saturn, Buick will sell to old people and as the Enclave shows it will also sell to a younger crowd, and mainly Saturn has its independent dealer network so it would be very expensive to eliminate it.
 

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A Corsa that meets US specs and is made here is the US would be a neat car as an entry level Saturn, it should be sold in 3 door and 5 door configurations, A "FIt Fighter" for Saturn, it should start with a nice low base price, say around $10,995 for a manual 3 door with a/c and single CD stereo and the 90hp Twinport 1.6 4 cyl. 12,995 for a XR midrange model with the base 90hp engine or an optional 130hp 1.6litre turbo
and top out around $18,000 for a Corsa RedLine with a 192hp 1.6 litre Turbo and Corsa VXR suspension. (possible production loc, Mexico or US)

The current gen Astra could use a boost in power and more options, I would figure out a away to get at least 2 more engine options in the Astra above the only choice available now, 140hp 1.8 litre, perhaps a slightly detuned 2.0 litre DI turbo 4 making about 180-190hp or 180hp 1.6 litre turbo 4, Saturn should also consider possibly offering the 16V CDTi Diesel 1.9 in Astra as a Rabbit diesel fighter in the US.

The next gen Astra would againbe based again on the next generation Astra, but also made over here, I would keep the current 5 door and 3 door versions plus add the 4 door notchback sedan that is sold in South America and possibly the wagon version(remember Saturn did have a S series wagon for many years) and the twin-top version as an Eos fighter. I would recommend base 3/5 door manual Astras start around $14,995 with a 140hp base, mid range $16,995 model with standard 140hp engine and an optional 180hp engine and 150hp CDI diesel(about $2000 option)and a $21,995 260hp 2.0 SIDI RedLine TwinTop Astras should start around $20,995 for the base 140hp version and end up around $28,995 for the RedLine(poss prod loc, Lordstown or Mex)

Aura should also share alot with the Insignia, and I recommend bringing entire line up to the US, with possible exception the 5 door hatch(I would rather offer a Malibu Maxx again), but the sedan and wagon would be here for sure,(they are a natural fit since Saturn did have a mid-size L series sedan and wagon)again made locally, I would also consider adding a coupe to the Aura range, not a full 5 passenger coupe, but more of a Pontiac G6 like 4 seat only coupe. I would recommend a base 180hp 4 cylinder with either a 6 speed auto or manual starting around $20,995(in my Saturn there are no plastic hub cap Auras) with the next step up being slighty higher end than the current Aura XR with the 180hp 4 and and optional 2.8 (2.8 V6 should be optional on both models) with a DI 285 hp DI 3.6 available only on the XR and RedLine, Aura RedLine should have a standard 260hp 2.0 litre and 6 speed manual with an optional DI 285 hp 3.6 V6.
 

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since I'm [strike]post-whoring[/strike]
umm... Contributing to the other brands' threads
thought Saturn shouldn't be neglected
ref: "My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?" thread:

Saturn joins BPGmc and returns to its smaller-vehicle roots
while pursuing entry-Lux as a 'Buick-Junior'...
...RedLines are replaced by "Powered by Pontiac" packages


SATURN < webpage link for other brands, colored charts!, and more info
Cutlass** (tho not badged as a Saturn, replaces the Aura - see sig)
And__________________________
Safari (new Ion-based Cuv)
Ion - size betwn Cutlass and Astra (Cruise-based?)
Vibe (Astra-based Cuv)
Astra
_____ (Corsa-based Cuv - dunno what to call it)
Corsa
Sky, IF continued, the nextgen would be the more/most affordable 'Kappa' & not Nec. a 2 seater

Ion, Astra, & Corsa would each have multiple body styles: sedans, hatches, targa/pop-tops... maybe even coupes &or a wagon.


** Cutlass would be shared by Saturn = plain "Cutlass"
Pontiac, with the "Grand Prix Pkg.", badging optional = top performance version
and Buick, "Cutlass-Insignia" = top-euro-trim +1... or +2
(the Oldsmobile name would not be resurrected... ...yet)
 

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I liked the Saturn of old: cheap, fuel efficient cars. But here's what I'd do....

I would use the "Saturn" theme and name models after Saturn's Moons.

Janus: The Subcompact.
Something to compete with the Fit, Versa, and Yaris. Engines comparable to what the competitors have. I'd rather this go to Chevrolet, and Saturn die.

Phoebe: The Compact.
Basically the Astra, but with an option for a "Redline" version that can actually go a bit faster. I'd rather this go to Pontiac, and Saturn die.

Dione: The Midsize.
Basically the Aura/Insignia, but since Saturn is going "upmarket" the inside will have to be even better than the Malibu's interior. I'd rather this go to Buick, and Saturn die.

Rhea: The Midsize Crossover.
Basically the Vue. Keep it simple, since it will be a basic people mover. Doesn't have to be all that nice, and it can use either a four or six cylinder engine. I'd rather this go to Chevrolet, and Saturn die.

Titan: The Big Crossover.
Basically the Outlook, but make it bigger and a hybrid. It should live up to its name, but have somewhat decent gas mileage. I would rather this go to GMC, and Saturn die.

Hyperion: The Sportscar.
Basically the Sky, with a hardtop option and less weight. Ragtops suck! I would rather this go to Pontiac, and Saturn die.


I want Saturn dead... but I think that if GM kills Pontiac, it will be the brand I move to if they keep the awesome customer service... or maybe Dodge since GM is going to buy them.
 
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