[2b2]

With recent news & rumors, I wanted one Ideal Lineup thread for 'All-That's-Kept' between Cadillac&Chevrolet,
tho it's OK if you want to sketch in C-&-C or global stuff for completeness.
When I asked AmericanRevolution about it he said, "...get it out there" (sorry it took so long).

The thread title is just to get the idea across & allow for different scenarios:
Killing / Selling-off / Keeping / ReInventing / . . .

I can't see any re-alignment yielding an immediate profit/cashflow increase -
but that is for the GMI-Rumor, Fortune:"Gleepening Doom"(sic), HoosierRon's concise Consolidation thread, the Chop-Which POLL, or others.
Just going to play Armchair ProductPlanner here & hope ^those^ Armchair-CEO's buy me the time needed.​

Imho they need to really merge B's P's Gmc's & S's (+ Opel's & Holden's) DNA into a single overBrand & Style
to forge a stronger Single-Message for a re-invented Premium/Attainable-Luxury segment.

My new Brand is "GMconnection" (tho "GMi" is a good name too, no?) ...many of the heritage names are used for "sub-brands" & models/packages/trims... largely to keep continuity with consumers. They could eventually be replaced/phased out OR enhanced/expanded depending on their success and relevance.

Probably wouldn't have the sub-brand's name anywhere on the vehicle (unless it's part of a trim option) just the existing sub-brand's logo with "GMconnection" & the model's name - - I believe if this had been done when they started combining dealerships the current crisis would be seen as just another evolutionary phase.

- no rebadges/multiples, One model per niche/size [overall lengths shown are approx.]
- unified exterior look
- deluxe interiors by Buick
- sport versions by Pontiac
- efficiency(?) by Saturn
- international 'flair' & engineering by Opel & Holden
- Hummer - I'd rather see it as a trim pkg* on some GM vehicles than let any foreign mfg get it (*sorta like Ford's HarleyDavidson model(s))
If necessary, as a way to ease into this...
- possibly offer multiple pkgs per model, upto 1 for each sub-brand/label... mainly options, trim, ambience, tuning,
and different grille-fillers = easy-swap for personalization.

But nothing would be done to present them as being different cars
(a sport ParkAvenue could = the Bonneville Pkg)
(the turbo version of the Astra could = a Tempest. Redline, no. Red arrowhead, Yes!)
(also a rugged-looking hybrid hatch might = an "H for Hummer" pkg.)

so here's my
Grand Unified Theory of an Ideal Lineup
aka: Save As Much Of Everything As Possible ...Sorta

3 Pontiacs = Rwd sportsy cars: smallish medium largish [173", 184", 195"ovls]
(med &or lg. might have a Riviera "pkg" available)
3 Saturns = smaller than Insignia/Invicta [180", 170" 160"] sedans, hatches, & Cuv-let/Vanlet versions
3 Buicks = 'limo-sedan'/ParkAvenue? [200"], Insignia/Invicta [190"], & Enclave
+
the Electra (deluxe Volt)
&
#? GMC = bare minimum # of truck models [2? 3? sizes] & Suvish vehicles #ToBeDetermined
(could have a tough-top-trim=Hummer, lux-top-trim=Denali)

sorry, Solstice/Sky fans - 2 seaters are OUT when Kappa-1 is done
(tho that 173" Pontiac that actually seats 4 adults... )
&
don't believe Saab could fit into this... so unless Cadillac wants a little buddy...
there's just no place for it within GM-USA.
If Ford does sell Volvo, maybe the same company could buy Saab or its name, and they could work out a unified Swedish Brand...

Finally, every model generation should SHRINK an inch or two & pursue weight saving
- consistent downsizing in moderate steps, not shocking jumps.

I'll post more about HOW to get from Now to Then if there's interest.


late/edit: LINK to an updated webpage version


-----------
appended are A.R.'s Ideal Lineup links -
Overview
Lineups: - His lineups
My Ideal Chevy Lineup GM
My Ideal Pontiac Lineup GM
My Ideal Cadillac Lineup GM
My Ideal Saturn Lineup GM
My Ideal Buick Lineup GM
My Ideal Saab Lineup GM
My Ideal Suzuki Lineup GM
My Ideal GMC Lineup GM
My Ideal Hummer Lineup GM
My Ideal Daewoo Lineup GM
Your Ideal Lineup: - threads he made for other people to post their ideal lineup in
Your Ideal Chevy Lineup GM
Your Ideal Suzuki Lineup GM
Your Ideal Hummer Lineup GM
Your Ideal Pontiac Lineup GM
Your Ideal Cadillac Lineup GM
Your Ideal Buick Lineup GM
Your Ideal Daewoo Lineup GM
apologies if I missed any & some His/Your go to the same thread.



original confusing thread title:
"My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?"

 

[2b2]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

tho no one's posted
I made this list for another thread, so here it is


Buick = ParkAvenue, Epi2(Insignia-Invicta), Enclave + Electra(deluxe Volt)
Saturn = BuickJunior = 3 cars smaller than Epi2: sedans, hatches, Cuv/Van-let versions
Pontiac = top sport/power Pkg on most of the above + 3 Rwd cars: G8(renamed), Torana, Soltice4seater

No internal duplication

the Pontiac 'sport/power versions' only get a different grille-INSERT & badge
sport PkAve = Bonneville
sport Epi2 = GrandPrix
sport Saturns = Tempest, LeMans...

maybe offer a "Riviera Pkg" on the "G8" &or Torana
maybe also offer a 'Buick Pkg' for top-lux trim on the Saturns

keep GMC - then gradually trim-down it's offerings to what STILL sells
& Hummer - to compete with (some) Jeeps - see post #5's edit
maybe have a tough "Hummer Pkg" to complement the top-lux Denali Pkg.

 

[Ronald McChevy]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

I like the idea of a unified brand, but I don't like the name. What if the new brand name was "Warren"? It keeps with the Michigan theme and maybe sounds a little upscale.

Also, why do you want to kill the two-seaters?

And lastly, I still think Saab can be kept alive. Let it move in with Caddy.

 

[Hitman1970]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

I see a lot of thought and logic went into this. I could see this brand strategy working quite well.

Altering the current dealership network structure would be another story.

 

[2b2]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

^ Thanks, Hitman!!! I've had a Lot of practice with "my Brand"
& yeah, the dealerships! But they're too far out my 'area' to offer a meaningful suggestion.

I like the idea of a unified brand, but I don't like the name. What if the new brand name was "Warren"? It keeps with the Michigan theme and maybe sounds a little upscale.

Also, why do you want to kill the two-seaters?

And lastly, I still think Saab can be kept alive. Let it move in with Caddy.

Thanks also, Ronald! & thanks for the name suggestion. Got more?
Imho 2seaters aren't as volume-y as a slightly bigger 4seater - sorry - ^this list^ is meant as a do-or-die. Tho I'd like to see someone else's version that justifies them.
I'd *love* to see Saab flourish - just don't see it as part of this sales channel.


edit
borrowing an idea from SierraGS < LINK (cuz it fits with the rest imho),
have Hummer compete with (some) Jeeps as Part of the 'overBrand'.
Wonder if they could be more fuel-efficient than their competition?

 

[nadepalma]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

I like the idea of combining brands into one for certain. The only thing I would worry about is if such a brand would step on the toes of Chevrolet and how that would impact the brass at GM. Chevy (and Caddy) have always been hallowed brands and am not sure if they'd go for it. However, the idea is a good one.

As for the name, perhaps something like "Warren" woul work best. Or perhaps GM could reach into their bag of un-used names and pull one out that has some signficance (Oakland? The brand that Pontiac replaced?). The GMconnection is a good thought, but would worry that it wouldn't be "marketable" in commericals, print, advertising, etc.

The idea of a sub-branding strategy is interesting too. GM kinda/Sorta did this with LaSalle, Pontiac (before it supplanted Oakland), Viking, and Marquette. These brands were "brands-between-brands" in GM's traditional divisions used to fill the gaps that existed there. But they were kinda paired with existing brands - LaSalle with Caddy, Marquette with Buick, etc. Your idea isn't the exact same thing, but certainly echoes some of it.

As for Saab, Paul it's funny you mentioned a possible future Saab/Volvo combo, cause one article I read a few years ago stated that the Swedes wanted just that. When Volvo was rumored to have been up for sale - and BMW and PSA Puegot-Citroen seemingly wanted to take the brand over - Volvo's former parent company said they'd be interested in repurcashing the brand. One article said that if Volvo AB got a hold of Volvo Cars again, they should approach GM to purchase Saab and make a "true" Swedish car company. The idea being that Saab would become a "feeder" of sorts to Volvo - and with both brands being FWD, this would make a lot of sense. Ultimately it's fantasy, but the idea was there. Kudos for picking up on it.

However, I dont think that Saab is at risk any longer. They are near break even and still have some cachet in some world markets. As GM streamlines it's product planning and engineering departments, I think that we'll see more and more coming out of Saab. I also think that Saab works well to compliment Caddy - two luxury brands: one European, one American; one "traditional/RWD" and one "sporty/FWD-based", etc. That's fine by me.

All good stuff Paul. Like to see the ideas being brought forward.

 

[SierraGS]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

Great plan overall, like how you mixed old names with brands without "stepping" on the other brands. This would be a great starting point that GM could build on without spending too much money (it doesn't have).

My only reservations are that I think SAAB can be an Audi competitor in the U.S. just don't know if GM has the money to do it, but bear in mind that there are new SAAB models that GM already invested money into - so if they are enough to turn SAAB into something here (hopefully) SAAB can stay. Not sure I agree with the Sky/Solstice going away, GM does sell these globally as Opel and Daewoo models so there maybe a business case for them globally.

 

[2b2]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

Thanks, SierraGS!
don't think that much credit is due for "mixed old names with brands without "stepping" on the other brands"
The brands ARE DISTINCT
IF they're not forced to do things that are out of character...

Part of the idea is injecting All the 'flavor' of GM's brands in concentrated form,
imho one international-but-distinctly-"GM"-styling for the exterior can/must be stronger than trying to make 3 variations (or more) = diluted.
Seems like they've been trying Too Hard almost & to do too many things
(like imho, my short list explains things better than the 'explanation' in the 1st post)
(or the paragraphs & paragraphs I've written but not posted - just gets muddled)

Solstice/Sky - think I've given my reasoning
& as long as the 2seaters are profitable and can be built profitably alongside 4seaters, I have no problem with them
...just expect the 4seaters to out-sell them

Saab just seems like one 'ingredient' too many for GMi/GMconnex imho
& I'm not clear on what platforms future Saabs will be built.
If they're Opels,
(edit) AND going to stay in the MID-Lux segment
they'd need a lot of changes to avoid redundancy.

Would welcome counter-proposals/ideas! > the 'Your' part of the thread

 

[GrandPrix08]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

Here is my 'DREAM' GM line up. Most of you will find it offensive, but this is the kind of GM that I would dream of. If this happens, I may keep shopping GM in the future, otherwise, my current 08 Grand Prix will be the very last GM car I would be owning, which I plan to keep it forever, unless they bring it back, that is NOT imported from Holden or any other nations but made in North America(both design and assembly) only.

Buick:

-Enclave(Updated Design)
-La Crosse(Re-design)
-Lucern(Re-design)
-Roadmaster(Returns)
-Skyhawk(Returns)
-Skylark(Returns)
-Wildcat(Returns)
-Reviera(Returns)
-GNX(Returns)
-Reatta(Returns)

Cadillac:

-Allante(Returns, re-designed)
-CTS(Updated)
-DTS(Updated)
-Escallade(More Luxurious, More Power)
-STS(Updated)
-XLR(Updated)

Chevrolet:

-Aveo(Killed, never to return)
-Camaro(Cancelled)
-Cobalt(Chinese designed and built, fails crash test)
-Colorado(Given to Hummer enlarged, as H05)
-Corvette(Stays the same as now, but price rise by $20,000)
-Equinnox(Killed)
-HHR(Killed, given to GMC extended in length and modified)
-Impala(Killed, never to return)
-Malibu(Killed)
-TrailBlazer(Given to GMC modified, as Jimmy)
-Volt(Cancelled)

HUMMER:

-H05(NEW)
-H1
-H2
-H3
-H4(NEW)
-H5(NEW, Hybrid)

GMC:

-Acadia
-Envoy
-Jimmy(New, modified Trailblazer)
-Sonoma(Returns)
-Suburban
-Yukon
-Yukon XL

Pontiac: (GM's new volume brand)

-Aztek(Returns, completely Redesigned)
-Banshee(Pontiac's new super car, less expensive and sportier and much more powerful than Corvette)
-Bonneville(Returns. G8 Dies FOREVER, *NO HOLDEN*, US designed, Canadian built, with RWD option)
-Firebird(Returns to live on FOREVER. US designed and Built)
-Grandam(Returns, G6 name dies)
-Grand Prix(Slightly updated, not much different than the phased out version inside and out, designed in US, Built in Canada)
-GTO(Returns, No longer Holden, US designed, Canadian Built)
-Phoenix(Returns, Vibe dies, no longer Toyota, US designed and built, Hybrid gets added)
-Solstice(Re-designed, gets sportier, more power)
-Sunbird(Returns as a sedan and convertible only as a upper model than Sunfire)
-Stinger(New sport SUV, Scion xD Fighter)
-Sunfire(Returns with V6 Turbo option as GXP, G5 name dies)
-T300(NEW, Pontiac's Smart fortwo fighter, US made)
-T1000(Returns, as one level up than T300, US Designed and Built)
-Torrent(Complete Re-design that is NOT a rebadge of Chevy Equinnox)

Saturn:

-Amber(New, modified, enlarged, re-badged Pontiac T-300)
-Astra(Updated)
-Aura(Updated)
-Ganemede(New, Station Wagon only)
-Ion(Returns, Updated)
-SC(Returns, Updated)
-Sky(Redline gets dropped)
-VUE/Greenline/Redline(Updated)


You can flame me, attack me whatever, I don't care since I won't even bother read this thread again. Chevy will always hated by me unless they bring back Grand Prix and kill off Impala forever.

This is my wish.

 

[jmlee0695]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

My dream GM line-up-
Buick-Enclave w/super v8,lucerne(chinese park avenue),invicta
cadillac-BRX,sts replacement to compete with 5-series,dts replac.to comp.w/7series,lamda based awd escalade with 5.3 v8 and 6.2 v8 and 3.6 di turbo v6.
chevy-current truck line but add GMC as top trim line,above ltzwith gmc badges,new colorado(holden rodeo) with diesels and 4cyl ,v6.new equinox or captiva,larger impala with a v6 and turbo 2.4 4cyl large fwd not rwd (toyota avalon comp.)the current malibu with a diesel,new cobalt,beat (aveo replac.),new hhr,traverse,malibu coupe,wagon,conv.volt
GMC-commercial only. express van,medium duty trucks)
pontiac-g8,and gxp,new torrent awd turbo v6, alpha-based g6/g5 replacement,solstice.
Saturn-renamed opel with a new astra and convertible,sedan,the zafira named outlook,insignia,opel agila,add 2.2 l.to astra,corsa,meriva
saab-new 9-5,wagon and sedan,new 9-3 coupe,convertible,wagon
hummer-h3,h3t,h4(hx),h1(compet.to jeep commander),h5 to compete with patriot except with more off road capabilities.
all diesels,and v6 and 4.5 v8 diesel on h1 andh3,t.
notes:
cadillac complete line has a v-series options
all v6 engines are 3.6 di
pontiac v6's are turbo,di,all rwd except for torrent(awd)
hummer now cpmpetes with jeep.
sorry,but for chevy i accidently left out corvette and camaro also a version of trax concpet.
BAS+ option on every opel and hummer model.

 

[jmlee0695]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

left out a few things-
gmc would be sold through chevy dealers and have a ford transit comp.look at the opel combo two

 

[2b2]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

^ ^^ ^^^ Thanks GrandPrix08 & Jmlee0695
won't have time 'til midweek to really study your lineups - but want to

( just for record, if people want to do All of GM that's fine
but really trying for a middle-market or BPGmc solution - prompted by the idea that Saturn was joining them...
...wonder if 2 middle-sales-channels could work? )

 

[jmlee0695]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

i also left out vue forsaturn with a two-mode 4 cyl and v6.saturn and chevy would get a 2-mode prius kiler

 

[Ming]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

I think it's kind of neat to return to the idea of a car representing a brand, as in the 1940's or so. But will one car be enough? Or perhaps just variants of one car - like Holden's many faces of the Commodore (Ute, Monaro, etc)?

 

[jmlee0695]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

sorry i left out alot of things-saab 9-1,saturn think or idea to go along with the smart,iq names as a competitor for them

 

[K Dawg ONE]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

How about keeping Chevy-Caddy as a 'singular brand' and PBGS as the alternative to the 'singular brandd' and becomes 'GM Collection' or just General Motors? Basically, GM would be down to two channels.

General Motors (with GM being the brand, the PBGS being the modle, and then the trim level):
GM Saturn 'Z' (hybrid hatch - Delta)
GM Saturn 'S' (hybrid small sedan - Delta)
GM Saturn 'L' (hybrid full/mid sedan -EpII)
GM Pontiac 'G2' (2 door coupe/4 door hatch - Delta)
GM Pontiac 'G4' (mid-size sedan - EpII)
GM Pontiac 'Solstice' (2 seat convertable - Kappa)
GM Pontiac 'Firebird' (2+2 Sports Coupe - Zeta)
GM Buick 'Regal' (lux mid-size - Sigma)
GM Buick 'Park Avenue' (lux full-size - Zeta)
GM Buick 'Enclave' (full size cross-over SUV - Theta Premium or Theta-Epsilon)
GMC 'Sonoma' (x-cab pickup - Theta)
GMC 'Sierra' (same configs as now, minus Denali and hybrid)
GMC 'Terrain' (entry level cross-over SUV - Theta)
GMC 'Yukon Denali' (full size cross-over SUV - Lambda II)

Chevy-Caddy would be:
Chevrolet 'Beat' (compact 3 door hatch - GMDAT-M / M300)
Chevrolet 'Cavalier' (3 door hatch/4 door compact sedan - Delta)
Chevrolet 'Malibu' (mid-size sedan - EpII)
Chevrolet 'Impala' (full size sedan - Zeta)
Chevrolet 'Camaro' (2+2 Sports Coupe - Zeta)
Chevrolet 'S10' (x-cab pickup - Theta)
Chevrolet 'Silverado' (same configs as now)
Chevrolet 'Equinox' (entry level cross-over SUV - Theta)
Chevrolet 'Tahoe' (full size cross-over SUV - Lambda II)
Caddy 'CTS' (lux mid-size - Sigma)
Caddy 'DTS' (lux full-size - Zeta)
Caddy 'XLR' (2 seater Sports Coupe - Zeta)
Caddy 'ESV' (full size cross-over SUV - Lambda II)

 

[Uzzy]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

I'll admit, I didn't read the whole tread. I hardly read any of it, but I did catch one thing that I had to comment on. Your idea of recycling the Electra name for a premium Volt...Genius! I love that! :clap: :yup:

 

[2b2]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

Thanks, Uzzy
thought using 'Electra' (And having a Buick-Volt) would be sorta inevitable...
and Buick's higher price-range would help with the higher initial costs for the plug-in system
&
if you see this reply - the Readers'Digest version is in post#2
but
here's a sorta updated list (borrowing most truck-stuff & platform names from HVM's recent post, any mistakes are mine)

Buick /pkgs___________
Pk.Ave /Bonneville___(Zeta lwb sedan)
Insignia /GrandPrix___(Epi2 sedan)
Enclave ___________.(Lambda CUV)
Electra____________.(Lux Volt)

Saturn /pkgs_________
Ion /Tempest,Excelle__(Delta2 sedan)
Astra /LeMans,Excelle_(Delta2 hatches)
Vibe / ?,Excelle______(Delta2 MPV)
Corsa / ?,'B'_________(Gamma2 hatches)
Atom / ?,'B' _________(A/B-class hatches)
Vue / -,Century?______(Theta CUV?)

Pontiac /pkgs________
G8 /LeSabre?Riviera?_(Zeta swb 4-door/vert)
Torana /Riviera______(Alpha? 5-door/Cabrio)
Solstice /Sky?_______(Kappa2 coupé/targa)

GMC /pkgs____________
Yukon /Denali,H9____(GMT-900 fullsize SUV)
Sierra /Denali,'H'____(GMT-900 fullsize p/u)
Envoy /Denali,H7____(GMT-700 midsize SUV)
Sonoma /Denali,'H'__.(GMT-700 midsize p/u)
'G-MaC'/Denali,H5__.(? Jeep-replacement)
__.''______________.(? ^ compact p/u version)

 

[Bravada]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

2b2 - from what I can gather Zeta and Alpha have been merged, i.e. the Zeta will be replaced by a smaller, lighter version of itself. I don't quite get all that "pkgs" kerfuffle (Pk. Ave is Bonneville, while G8 is Riviera....?)

Where's Chevrolet then? Which models are being shared with Opel and/or Holden? Getting rid of Saab just because you can't figure out what to do with it is not a nice thing to do

My my, have I got critical of everything today. I am so pretty and witty and all

Your idea of recycling the Electra name for a premium Volt...Genius! I love that!

I've been proposing that since 1984 or so

 

[2b2]

Re: My/Your Ideal 'GM-I' Lineup: GM-Integrated: BPGmc ± ?

I didn't know about the Zeta and Alpha merger
but afaik Zeta was designed to be several sizes - would expect the nextgen-combo to still have that capability

I don't quite get all that "pkgs" kerfuffle (Pk. Ave is Bonneville, while G8 is Riviera....?)

Where's Chevrolet then? Which models are being shared with Opel and/or Holden? Getting rid of Saab just because you can't figure out what to do with it is not a nice thing to do

My my, have I got critical of everything today. I am so pretty and witty and all

sorry I'm too short on time to explain better...
the packages come from NOT having 3 (or even 2) different versions of the same car - since I'm advocating joining Saturn with B&P&Gmc
While doing away with (semi)duplicated models
until/if I find the time (assuming you're really interested)... did you check out the webpage I made?