How can Chevrolet not keep a motor with smaller supercharger cool while they could on the ZR1?
MT: C7 Z06 vs NISMO GT-R Comparison
Can't believe nobody has posted this yet-
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1504_2015_chevrolet_corvette_z06_vs_2015_nissan_gt_r_nismo_comparison/
Can't say I agree completely with the GT-R winning, but I understand their logic. I wouldn't want one, the car does nothing for me. That said, I think this recurring overheating issue for the Z06 is a problem, and it's not becoming of a car with true track day intentions. But it's still a far better value than the Nissan.
Personally, I think if you insist on paying 6 figures for a car you can take from the street to the track and it be equally adept in both environments, the answer is still the same as it'd ever been- 911 GT3.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1504_2015_chevrolet_corvette_z06_vs_2015_nissan_gt_r_nismo_comparison/
Can't say I agree completely with the GT-R winning, but I understand their logic. I wouldn't want one, the car does nothing for me. That said, I think this recurring overheating issue for the Z06 is a problem, and it's not becoming of a car with true track day intentions. But it's still a far better value than the Nissan.
Personally, I think if you insist on paying 6 figures for a car you can take from the street to the track and it be equally adept in both environments, the answer is still the same as it'd ever been- 911 GT3.
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I honestly think the smaller blower may be part of the issue. It's possible that it's spun too tight and doesn't have enough surface material to transfer heat. Or it could be something else entirely.
All I know is this is not a vehicle I would look into for true tracking. Not there's really anything wrong with that, imo. It's still a great sports car. I just think GM was maybe a little unwise to take that slant on this car.
All I know is this is not a vehicle I would look into for true tracking. Not there's really anything wrong with that, imo. It's still a great sports car. I just think GM was maybe a little unwise to take that slant on this car.
This is a huge blunt on Tadge Juechter storied career. I hope he does not go into hinding but steps up and does the right thing like Porsche did with the GT3, replace all motors in customers hands.I honestly think the smaller blower may be part of the issue. It's possible that it's spun too tight and doesn't have enough surface material to transfer heat. Or it could be something else entirely.
All I know is this is not a vehicle I would look into for true tracking. Not there's really anything wrong with that, imo. It's still a great sports car. I just think GM was maybe a little unwise to take that slant on this car.
GM had problem with LS7..did they adress that?This is a huge blunt on Tadge Juechter storied career. I hope he does not go into hinding but steps up and does the right thing like Porsche did with the GT3, replace all motors in customers hands.
Problem which Porsche had with GT3 was a piston connecting rod bolt (according to Porsche).
With what should GM replaced their LT4 engine? A LT4 with different supercharger?
Same LT4 is going into a CTS-V. Maybe GM is waiting to see if there will be some problems too.
Does anyone knows if Chrysler has problems with its hellcat ...a 6.2 l 700+hp supercharged engine?
I feel as though they were taking advantage of the built up branding of the Z06 and making a car more approachable for more people. Hence you have a convertible and an automatic, also with a removable roof on the coupe. Honestly it isn't the car that I would want to take to the track either, hell if I had one I would look to swap the engine with katechs 427 LT1 engine (with over 700BHP). The last generation Z06 was much more of a hard core track car then the new car.I honestly think the smaller blower may be part of the issue. It's possible that it's spun too tight and doesn't have enough surface material to transfer heat. Or it could be something else entirely.
All I know is this is not a vehicle I would look into for true tracking. Not there's really anything wrong with that, imo. It's still a great sports car. I just think GM was maybe a little unwise to take that slant on this car.
You don't have to take it to track to feel the heatHonestly it isn't the car that I would want to take to the track either, hell if I had one I would look to swap the engine with katechs 427 LT1 engine (with over 700BHP.
Sure, the Z06's manual transmission was more work in traffic, but a reasonably light clutch made it mostly a non-issue. More frustrating was the heat radiating through the firewall and center tunnel when stuck in traffic; it cooked my feet first and then heated up the whole cabin. At freeway speeds, there's enough airflow under the car to keep it in check, but at rush hour, there's nothing you can do but turn up the AC while you creep along.
Still bringing out a half baked motor to this game is not a good thing. The other thing is, GM's weak point has for a while been the powertrain division, perhaps there is need to clean up that organization.I feel as though they were taking advantage of the built up branding of the Z06 and making a car more approachable for more people. Hence you have a convertible and an automatic, also with a removable roof on the coupe. Honestly it isn't the car that I would want to take to the track either, hell if I had one I would look to swap the engine with katechs 427 LT1 engine (with over 700BHP). The last generation Z06 was much more of a hard core track car then the new car.
The chevy small block has been a really strong point, I don't think that there is an issue with the LT4 engine just an issue with the LT4 engine in the Corvette. People forget just how compact the Chevy Small Block V-8 engine really is as you probably couldn't fit the Nissan GTR engine in the Corvette (probably too wide). Having a smaller supercharger spinning at a higher rpm equates to more heat then before.
You know what, I am starting to see engineering choice that are being made that might not be ideal as being the result of chief engineer Tadge. Dave Hill retired in January of 2006, so really the last Corvette he over saw was the C6 Z06 Corvette. I honestly think that the ZR1 Corvette was really the result of Tadge and the direction that he was taking the Corvette in. The C6 Z06 didn't get for example magnetic shocks as it was stated that they really are not up to the task of hardcore track duty. Dave Hill was gone and eventually the Corvette Z06 got them, I don't know if there was just improvements made to the shocks or what.
Now look at the Z/28 Camaro and the up coming 6th generation Camaro, Al Oppenheiser I am starting to wonder if he should have been put in charge of Corvette. As things stand the best track car you can buy form GM right now is a Camaro. I think that if he was in charge of the C7 the base car would have been 3,000 pounds and 400BHP. I also think that the Z06 would have a N/A engine under the hood.
You know what, I am starting to see engineering choice that are being made that might not be ideal as being the result of chief engineer Tadge. Dave Hill retired in January of 2006, so really the last Corvette he over saw was the C6 Z06 Corvette. I honestly think that the ZR1 Corvette was really the result of Tadge and the direction that he was taking the Corvette in. The C6 Z06 didn't get for example magnetic shocks as it was stated that they really are not up to the task of hardcore track duty. Dave Hill was gone and eventually the Corvette Z06 got them, I don't know if there was just improvements made to the shocks or what.
Now look at the Z/28 Camaro and the up coming 6th generation Camaro, Al Oppenheiser I am starting to wonder if he should have been put in charge of Corvette. As things stand the best track car you can buy form GM right now is a Camaro. I think that if he was in charge of the C7 the base car would have been 3,000 pounds and 400BHP. I also think that the Z06 would have a N/A engine under the hood.
Idk that I'd call it half-baked. And the problem seems to lie either the cooling or the blower, or both, rather than the engine itself. It's just not an ideal mill for the application, imo.
I can't help but wonder how this car would have turned out if they had just taken the LT1 and given it some more compression, aggressive cam, better heads, maybe even more displacement; taken 150lbs or so off the chassis; gone with the upgraded brakes/suspension; and called it a day. The C6 Z06 was already running 80-90K, why not follow the same formula?
They could have then marketed the current Z06 as a ZR1 again, and rather than proclaiming it to be a track king, just calling it what is- a very well-rounded, supremely capable sports coupe with tremendous value. Because I have no doubt the car is one of the very best enjoyable cars available on the road. It's just not a track star. More of an American F Type, which itself is a very, very cool car.
Just my take.
I can't help but wonder how this car would have turned out if they had just taken the LT1 and given it some more compression, aggressive cam, better heads, maybe even more displacement; taken 150lbs or so off the chassis; gone with the upgraded brakes/suspension; and called it a day. The C6 Z06 was already running 80-90K, why not follow the same formula?
They could have then marketed the current Z06 as a ZR1 again, and rather than proclaiming it to be a track king, just calling it what is- a very well-rounded, supremely capable sports coupe with tremendous value. Because I have no doubt the car is one of the very best enjoyable cars available on the road. It's just not a track star. More of an American F Type, which itself is a very, very cool car.
Just my take.
These are some of GM's best engineers and they cannot figure out how to keep the motor cool?The chevy small block has been a really strong point, I don't think that there is an issue with the LT4 engine just an issue with the LT4 engine in the Corvette. People forget just how compact the Chevy Small Block V-8 engine really is as you probably couldn't fit the Nissan GTR engine in the Corvette (probably too wide). Having a smaller supercharger spinning at a higher rpm equates to more heat then before.
You know what, I am starting to see engineering choice that are being made that might not be ideal as being the result of chief engineer Tadge. Dave Hill retired in January of 2006, so really the last Corvette he over saw was the C6 Z06 Corvette. I honestly think that the ZR1 Corvette was really the result of Tadge and the direction that he was taking the Corvette in. The C6 Z06 didn't get for example magnetic shocks as it was stated that they really are not up to the task of hardcore track duty. Dave Hill was gone and eventually the Corvette Z06 got them, I don't know if there was just improvements made to the shocks or what.
Now look at the Z/28 Camaro and the up coming 6th generation Camaro, Al Oppenheiser I am starting to wonder if he should have been put in charge of Corvette. As things stand the best track car you can buy form GM right now is a Camaro. I think that if he was in charge of the C7 the base car would have been 3,000 pounds and 400BHP. I also think that the Z06 would have a N/A engine under the hood.
On a side note, it IS interesting to see the divide between the Camaro engineering team, and the Corvette one. Why is this in-house rivalry allowed to exist? I don't think they are pushing one another so much as selling GM as a whole short because they don't have all the best people working on all of the cars.
there is actually a three way divide, there is Camaro, Cadillac and Corvette teams. Its produced excellence at a level not possible even 7 years ago, and you see the pressure on corvette team coming to bear.On a side note, it IS interesting to see the divide between the Camaro engineering team, and the Corvette one. Why is this in-house rivalry allowed to exist? I don't think they are pushing one another so much as selling GM as a whole short because they don't have all the best people working on all of the cars.
Interesting that Cadillac choose to go with the Corvette motor but opted out of the dry sump oil system then choose to keep their V6 turbo for the ATS application.
True, didn't think about Cadillac's team.there is actually a three way divide, there is Camaro, Cadillac and Corvette teams. Its produced excellence at a level not possible even 7 years ago, and you see the pressure on corvette team coming to bear.
Interesting that Cadillac choose to go with the Corvette motor but opted out of the dry sump oil system then choose to keep their V6 turbo for the ATS application.
I don't think there is a rivalry between the 3 teams, you have 3 different teams with 3 different missions at hand. You just probably have 3 different philosophies behind the 3 different engineers. You can see this with the results of the different products that they produce, with that said I think Al and Tony may be more on the same page while I am starting to wonder about the direction Tadge is taking Corvette in.On a side note, it IS interesting to see the divide between the Camaro engineering team, and the Corvette one. Why is this in-house rivalry allowed to exist? I don't think they are pushing one another so much as selling GM as a whole short because they don't have all the best people working on all of the cars.
I am not so sure that having one person over seeing the Camaro, Corvette, and Cadillac V series would be the most ideal thing. The Corvette has a small engine bay so forced induction is always going to be an issue with the car. This maybe less about can they get the engine cooled and more about should the Corvette pass up on forced induction.
Honestly if the Camaro ends up being lighter then the C7 then my opinion will be carved in stone, that Al would have been better for the Corvette program. Maybe Tadge would have been better for the Camaro, make it more of a GT and keep the Corvette more of a purist sports car.
You think there is no rivalry between the teams? Oh you are mistaken. The teams will do anything to sell cars and get a name for themselves.I don't think there is a rivalry between the 3 teams, you have 3 different teams with 3 different missions at hand. You just probably have 3 different philosophies behind the 3 different engineers. You can see this with the results of the different products that they produce, with that said I think Al and Tony may be more on the same page while I am starting to wonder about the direction Tadge is taking Corvette in.
I am not so sure that having one person over seeing the Camaro, Corvette, and Cadillac V series would be the most ideal thing. The Corvette has a small engine bay so forced induction is always going to be an issue with the car. This maybe less about can they get the engine cooled and more about should the Corvette pass up on forced induction.
Honestly if the Camaro ends up being lighter then the C7 then my opinion will be carved in stone, that Al would have been better for the Corvette program. Maybe Tadge would have been better for the Camaro, make it more of a GT and keep the Corvette more of a purist sports car.
When Al stood up and said he wants to be in the same conversation with Ferarri, GT-R and Porsche, that was totally saying, Screw corvette. And to his credit, the Z/28 did exactly that.
Tadge is no slouch, He gave you epics like the last gen Z06 and ZR1, but he might be getting rusty.
We will see what Team Cadillac has up its sleaves.
I don't think that he meant it that way, why would he mention the Corvette????? would be kind of silly..... By the way he was talking about the Z/28 Camaro specifically....You think there is no rivalry between the teams? Oh you are mistaken. The teams will do anything to sell cars and get a name for themselves.
When Al stood up and said he wants to be in the same conversation with Ferarri, GT-R and Porsche, that was totally saying, Screw corvette. And to his credit, the Z/28 did exactly that.
Tadge is no slouch, He gave you epics like the last gen Z06 and ZR1, but he might be getting rusty.
We will see what Team Cadillac has up its sleaves.
Also he wasn't the chief engineer for the Corvette until after the C6 Z06 was done, putting the C6 Z06 really under Dave Hill and not Tadge...
He never mentioned the corvette, but this is GM. When a lowly camaro Engineer says he wants to be in conversation with Corvette's main competition, what does that tell you about his thinking on Corvette?I don't think that he meant it that way, why would he mention the Corvette????? would be kind of silly..... By the way he was talking about the Z/28 Camaro specifically....
Also he wasn't the chief engineer for the Corvette until after the C6 Z06 was done, putting the C6 Z06 really under Dave Hill and not Tadge...
Sometimes the unsaid is what counts
lowly Camaro engineer???? I think this is more you projecting yourself on to Al more then anything else..,...He never mentioned the corvette, but this is GM. When a lowly camaro Engineer says he wants to be in conversation with Corvette's main competition, what does that tell you about his thinking on Corvette?
Sometimes the unsaid is what counts
trust me, its got nothing to do with me, at all, Its not an attack on his person either, its a term I use to convey what the 'perceived' market hierarchy of Camaro is Vs. Say Porsche 911.lowly Camaro engineer???? I think this is more you projecting yourself on to Al more then anything else..,...
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