[richmond2000]

Disagree.

Being German is certainly an advantage for MB/BMW/Audi, mainly due to the German heritage/image for building premium cars. Not to mention the image of superior engineering and bespoke technology.

On the flip side the Germans rarely offer better product than the competition. Maybe better reviewed in the first year after launch, but overtime it becomes clear that the cars are not "better than the competition". This applies to Mercedes more than anyone, since almost every MB vehicle launched before 2012 is absolutely an inferior product compared to its competition. This includes the W204 C-class, the W212 E-class, the W221 S-class, the GLK class, and the W164 and earlier M-class. None of these are outstanding cars by any stretch of the definition. Overrated yes. But that harks back to the image, brand, and indeed the perception of German cars.

Cadillac is in the opposite boat. Granted before the ATS, I don't believe any Cadillac has been worthy of a premium badge, but even if Cadillac were to build world beating luxury cars, counteracting the negative image associated with American cars (poorly built, poorly engineered, cheap) would be a constant battle. As mgescuro says, there is no clear definition of what a premium American car is - a definition that people outside of America (and those who aspire to be like them) would find appealing as well.

The Japanese had no history of luxury cars but they still had an image for building well engineered and precisely made cars. This alone is enough to help springboard a luxury brand, but lacking the heritage image leaves them chasing the Germans.

MB AND BMW's OWN history "GAVE" the Germans there "precision" image but I was referring to that there is some sort of a LUXURY car = German car
I agree GM cr*ped the bead when it comes to quality and durability of AMERICAN premium cars
and I agree on that MB LOST there way and I am NOT convinced that have it back and BMW NEVER was reliable at a Japanese car level

if Opel moved Luxury I do NOT think they would fair ANY BETTER then CADDY as BOTH built a reputation of NON "precision" engineered Luxury cars

 

[MisterMe]

MB AND BMW's OWN history "GAVE" the Germans there "precision" image but I was referring to that there is some sort of a LUXURY car = German car
I agree GM cr*ped the bead when it comes to quality and durability of AMERICAN premium cars
and I agree on that MB LOST there way and I am NOT convinced that have it back and BMW NEVER was reliable at a Japanese car level

if Opel moved Luxury I do NOT think they would fair ANY BETTER then CADDY as BOTH built a reputation of NON "precision" engineered Luxury cars

Although this is not complete nonsense, this is mostly nonsense. The history of Mercedes Benz--particularly in North America--is that those who were aware of the brand thought of it as a luxury brand but they had no idea why. Certain models of Mercedes such as the 220D are still considered to be jokes. BMW is an entirely different kettle of fish. Until the 1970s, the top-of-the-line BMW was the 2002tii. Its first attempt at becoming the BMW that we know today was the BMW Bavaria. It was soon supplanted by the 5-series, most notably in 528 form. For much of its history post 2002tii, BMWs are thought of a performance sedans. BMW still promotes its cars as "Driving Machines." Over time, BMW expanded its reach into the luxury market. However, luxury was most certainly not its origins.

 

[Ed753]

And I spent thanksgiving in a soup kitchen and got the money to buy the ATS by collecting cans.

Where do you think most A4, C Class and 3 Series sales coming from? People trading in their S Classes? And as I stated numerous times there are several people like myself that we're "pent up demand" for American luxury. I refuse to buy foreign makes and until the ATS the domestic luxury makes offered nothing of interest, so I drove a Malibu.

Picking up cans and eating at a soup kitchen, no wonder you were able to pay cash.............

Sorry if you took my "use to own a Malibu" as derogatory - I was merely stating facts, if I had bought a mid-size when you bought your Malibu (2008 - 2012), I probably would have too (over the Fusion of that era). Your Malibu was actually the "smart money" purchase ................

Anyway getting back to the story, I bet Malibu (or Fusion) owners are much richer than most Cadillac owners, but I doubt we'll ever read that story..........

 

[mchicha]

Don't make a mess in your pants now

only 6 of these have been made and all customers other than the press fleet ones also own one of these birds

So , to drive one of these 6 wheelers you have to be a sissy with a bird

 

[Neanderthal]

Picking up cans and eating at a soup kitchen, no wonder you were able to pay cash.............

Sorry if you took my "use to own a Malibu" as derogatory - I was merely stating facts, if I had bought a mid-size when you bought your Malibu (2008 - 2012), I probably would have too (over the Fusion of that era). Your Malibu was actually the "smart money" purchase ................

Anyway getting back to the story, I bet Malibu (or Fusion) owners are much richer than most Cadillac owners, but I doubt we'll ever read that story..........

That Lincoln craves some FUELLY miles racked up! :drive: :drive:

 

[F14CRAZY]

I still believe in the idea that no matter how much time passes, or how much better Cadillac vehicles are, people are going to be buy German cars because they're German, and not American cars because they're not German.

 

[Ruperts Trooper]

I still believe in the idea that no matter how much time passes, or how much better Cadillac vehicles are, people are going to be buy German cars because they're German, and not American cars because they're not German.

Changing the international perception of each nation's prowess as car makers is impossible - German brands, and Japanese, are seen the world over as better quality.

 

[JBsZ06]

How do Mercedes owners wealth rate compared to jaguar/ land rover owners?

How about compared to Lexus owners?

Curious why Cadillac was singled out in this discussion?

Would Lexus even though it's owners are poorer be considered a successful luxury brand?

 

[JBsZ06]

Changing the international perception of each nation's prowess as car makers is impossible - German brands, and Japanese, are seen the world over as better quality.

Only for the foolish who believe what they have heard versus what they have experienced themselves...


German electronics are pitiful over time and challenge the best technicians...rivaling the old Lucas horror stories of decades ago...

I've watched my neighbors brand new Lexus rx truck ride on top of many flatbed tow trucks because the doctor couldn't get it to start....

Meanwhile my wife's trucks never needed a flatbed for all the years...

Just saying.....sometimes the image of luxury and quality are false...

True luxury to me involves working as part of the package....otherwise it becomes a hassle and is no longer a luxury item...

 

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

Changing the international perception of each nation's prowess as car makers is impossible - German brands, and Japanese, are seen the world over as better quality.

It's certainly easy to change - just - supply cars of better quality.

 

[Ruperts Trooper]

It's certainly easy to change - just - supply cars of better quality.

That's a pre-requisite - but it'll still take a couple of generations to change perceptions - that's human generations. not car generations!

 

[F14CRAZY]

Only for the foolish who believe what they have heard versus what they have experienced themselves...


German electronics are pitiful over time and challenge the best technicians...rivaling the old Lucas horror stories of decades ago...

I've watched my neighbors brand new Lexus rx truck ride on top of many flatbed tow trucks because the doctor couldn't get it to start....

Meanwhile my wife's trucks never needed a flatbed for all the years...

Just saying.....sometimes the image of luxury and quality are false...

True luxury to me involves working as part of the package....otherwise it becomes a hassle and is no longer a luxury item...

That's weird. I figured a new RX would be as reliable as a '95 Corolla

 

[MonaroSS]

That's a pre-requisite - but it'll still take a couple of generations to change perceptions - that's human generations. not car generations!

Back on the day when kids, parents and grandparents would eat together and have shared experiences a human generation was generally thought of as twenty years. People from the 40's were a different generation from those of the 60's or the 50's from the 70's. But there was overlap between say the 40's and 50's or 60's and 70's.

But today I think the generations are more stratified. Families don't sit down and watch evening TV shows together that give social continuity and shared experience. They don't eat together and if they do the young one's are not mentally present as they txt on their iphones or ipads oblivious to the conversations going on around them.

I think in marketing terms a human generation is now closer to ten years where kids of the 90's have significantly different world views that those of the 00's.

 

[ponchoman49]

I wouldn't touch a Mercedes anything even if I was a millionaire, especially after watching what other current owners are going through.

 

[mgescuro]

I wouldn't touch a Mercedes anything even if I was a millionaire, especially after watching what other current owners are going through.

What are Mercedes owners going through?

My 1995 C280 has never had a major mechanical problem in its life. And my 2010 E350 has never been in the shop for anything other than standard maintenance. All I've ever had to do on it was replace the battery.


So, you want your car to be in the shop every other couple of months? Go for it.

I'll stick with Mercedes.

 

[Ed753]

That Lincoln craves some FUELLY miles racked up! :drive: :drive:

Yeah-yeah, I know............. We just parked the Volt for the winter 2 weeks ago, "down to 3 cars" The MKX is my wife's "Winter Beater" but we've had a spell of nicer weather, so its still on it first tank of go-go juice since bringing it home. I asked my wife the other day how much gas it had in it and she didn't even know where the gas gauge was!? Since she drove the Volt much of the summer, checking the gas level is a new concept for her.........

 

[Ed753]

I still believe in the idea that no matter how much time passes, or how much better Cadillac vehicles are, people are going to be buy German cars because they're German, and not American cars because they're not German.

With all this attention GM/Cadillac are giving us, I’ve recently had similar thoughts……….

Just Because Burger King wants to have the sales & profits of McDonald’s, even if it does everything possible to make it happen, it doesn’t mean it will..... Business is full of winners and losers look at; Walmart vs. Kmart, Best Buy vs. Circuit City……… The list is endless. Like the saying goes, if you are not growing you are shrinking........... Look at Amazon 20 years ago they didn't exist, last year 75 billion but; A) It doesn't overnight ($500,000 in 1995) B) Look at all the "dot-coms" that don't even exist anymore! - not only did they not climb the latter of success, they didn't even survive.

 

[Neanderthal]

Yeah-yeah, I know............. We just parked the Volt for the winter 2 weeks ago, "down to 3 cars" The MKX is my wife's "Winter Beater" but we've had a spell of nicer weather, so its still on it first tank of go-go juice since bringing it home. I asked my wife the other day how much gas it had in it and she didn't even know where the gas gauge was!? Since she drove the Volt much of the summer, checking the gas level is a new concept for her.........

Rutt roe!!

She can do like my aunt did. "I think I get better mileage when the needle's on E mpty!"

I think it's got a little warning thingie, though. All is well!!

 

[Jesda]

What are Mercedes owners going through?

My 1995 C280 has never had a major mechanical problem in its life. And my 2010 E350 has never been in the shop for anything other than standard maintenance. All I've ever had to do on it was replace the battery.


So, you want your car to be in the shop every other couple of months? Go for it.

I'll stick with Mercedes.

Congrats. You -just- missed MB's worst years which were among the worst in the industry. I wouldn't touch a W210 to W220 with a 10-mile pole.

That's like saying you'll stick with Cadillac after you've owned a 76 Coupe Deville and a CTS-V.

 

[mgescuro]

Congrats. You -just- missed MB's worst years which were among the worst in the industry. I wouldn't touch a W210 to W220 with a 10-mile pole.

That's like saying you'll stick with Cadillac after you've owned a 76 Coupe Deville and a CTS-V.

The W210 wasn't the real problem, it really was the W211, not to mention the W163. And I realize the years between 1997-2008 or so were among the worst in Mercedes history.

They've obviously learned their lesson.