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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
http://wardsauto.com/ar/lutz_break_testing_080829/

In addition, Lutz says GM is worried about the future of its Corvette sports car as a result of tightening fuel-economy regulations.

Setting lower CO2 limits would equal setting CAFE at 43 mpg (5.5 L/100 km),” Lutz says. “This is why the sale of the Dodge Viper by Chrysler makes sense, because anyone selling fewer than 50,000 vehicles annually would be exempt (from fuel-economy requirements).

“So if someone else bought Viper, they could sell to capacity, but Chrysler couldn’t. This is why we are concerned about Corvette

“I get letters from people saying they heard we were going to add a supercharged 600-hp V-8 to the Camaro lineup, and I write back saying ‘Sorry, with new (corporate average fuel economy) standards (for 2020), we aren’t going to do it.”

As for the Saturn Outlook being discontinued now that the more volume-oriented Chevrolet Traverse is hitting the market, Lutz says simply, “No Lambda-based crossover will be dropped.”

He does reconfirm that plans for fullsize rear-drive Chevrolet and Buick have been cancelled due to higher gasoline prices. Also impacted is the new Camaro sports coupe set to roll out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

Big Al, What gives? What does this say about a Z/28? Just that it won't have 600 HP? This has me thinking the new ZR1 will be the most powerful Corvette of ALL time! Same with the CTS-V.:mad:
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

Big Al, What gives? What does this say about a Z/28? Just that it won't have 600 HP? This has me thinking the new ZR1 will be the most powerful Corvette of ALL time! Same with the CTS-V.:mad:
We have known that the Z28 was being rethought as the CAFE rules threw a wrench into an LSA powerd Camaro. Also, most Z28 fans including myself were not to keen on a big ol'supercharged engine turning the Camaro into a very heavy sports car.
I think that when Z28 shows up, we will have a lighter but just slightly more powerful Camaro then the SS. IMO...not a bad idea. Think of the SS 350 vs the Z28 cars of 70-73. Both were 350's, but the LT-1 in the Z28 was much more powerful, even more powerful then the 396 (402) big blocks.
Slight bump in power maybe 30-40hp more, lighter weight, and more racing oriented car is what the Z28 should be.
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

I don't mind the fact that we won't be seeing a new Impala or Buick RWD sedan anytime soon...personally, I'd rather have an AWD sedan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

We have known that the Z28 was being rethought as the CAFE rules threw a wrench into an LSA powerd Camaro. Also, most Z28 fans including myself were not to keen on a big ol'supercharged engine turning the Camaro into a very heavy sports car.
I think that when Z28 shows up, we will have a lighter but just slightly more powerful Camaro then the SS. IMO...not a bad idea. Think of the SS 350 vs the Z28 cars of 70-73. Both were 350's, but the LT-1 in the Z28 was much more powerful, even more powerful then the 396 (402) big blocks.
Slight bump in power maybe 30-40hp more, lighter weight, and more racing oriented car is what the Z28 should be.
Noted, but after owning a Sky Redline, I like the idea of a force-fed V-8. Well, I hope there will still be a Z/28. It doesn't have to have 600 HP, but 500 would be cool! ;)
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

ok so we'll get a 550hp supercharged Z28 instead! haha .. we wish right.
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

I don't comprehend why they can't provide certain cars now. It's the cars for 2020 they have to worry about, not what they sell at the current time. Dropping the 'vette's engine into a Z28 Camaro won't affect 2020 CAFE numbers.

It's just muddled crapola.
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

We have known that the Z28 was being rethought as the CAFE rules threw a wrench into an LSA powerd Camaro. Also, most Z28 fans including myself were not to keen on a big ol'supercharged engine turning the Camaro into a very heavy sports car.
I think that when Z28 shows up, we will have a lighter but just slightly more powerful Camaro then the SS. IMO...not a bad idea. Think of the SS 350 vs the Z28 cars of 70-73. Both were 350's, but the LT-1 in the Z28 was much more powerful, even more powerful then the 396 (402) big blocks.
Slight bump in power maybe 30-40hp more, lighter weight, and more racing oriented car is what the Z28 should be.
How about dropping in a LS7, or a 5th gen smallblock with DI?
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

There are other options here. The LS3 with the GM Performance Parts cam that bumps power to 480hp. Combine that with the use of some lightweight materials (carbon fiber, etc) and that should make for some awesome performance more aligned with the original Z28's promise. Make it a monster on the track.

Going forward, it isn't just going to be about engine technology. The use of weight-saving next generation materials will be key. I know of a couple universities with departments dedicated to these very materials.

That said, I don't see why the C7 Corvette can't shrink a little in size to something similar to what it was in the 60's, drop some weight, and use a small displacement, high tech V8. If you're going to charge $50,000+ for a Corvette, lets see some innovation.
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

FYI, that article's from August, so it's not exactly new information. (Not criticizing, but that's why some of what was said seems to have odd timing.)

As for the LS series of engines, which have been around since 1997 and should be going into their next generation soon, here are my hopes. The LS engines are already some of the most compact and light engines in their class, usually being noticeably smaller than OHC V6s. They also get great fuel economy on the highway due to great low end torque. The trouble is, externally the 4.7L Vortec V8 isn't much smaller than the 7.0L LS7 V8 block. This is because the LS architecture proved to be capable of being bored and stroked out to great displacement. The aftermarket Warhawk LSX block can even get above 7.0L and still handle boost with their arrangement.

My hope is that GM replaces the "small block" which is now up to 6.2L of displacement in the Corvette, Camaro SS, and G8 GXP with a "micro block" sized around 5.0L. By using a smaller block maximized internally in the same fashion as the LS7, the exterior size and weight could be one of the smallest, lightest V8s in production. Then, instead of displacement, employ variable valve timing on intake and exhaust separately (like on the new Viper V10), direct injection, forked rocker arms with 3 valves per cylinder, and AFM. The smaller displacement will help city mileage, AFM for highway loafing, and it should still be able to put out 400 HP.

I suspect larger trucks will wind up using the smaller diesel as a go-to torquey replacement for the small block anyway, so this engine could be reserved for light duty work and sport sedans, coupes, and the Vette. I know everyone loves big American V8s (including me), but I think this is one way GM could manage to keep building a sporty V8 considering looming CAFE standards and not wind up dropping V6s into everything or neutering all V8s with fuel saving equipment (underpowered malaise era big blocks, I'm looking at you).
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

I don't comprehend why they can't provide certain cars now. It's the cars for 2020 they have to worry about, not what they sell at the current time. Dropping the 'vette's engine into a Z28 Camaro won't affect 2020 CAFE numbers.

It's just muddled crapola.
It's because the CAFE legislation that passed has milestones in progression to the 35MPG goal for the manufacturers to meet prior to 2020. If memory serves me right the first MPG milestone is 2011. Two model years away.
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

Not making a rear wheel drive sedan for Buick or Chevrolet is just plan dumb. GM might as well just cancel Buick right now.



No one should allow the government to dictate the product that they sell. GM won't bring to market a real car because they are afraid that it will sell and the government will penalize them. DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE WHAT'S FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG HERE? This is America..why is the goverment forcing GM to be uncompetative.

Sell what people want, then worry about the consequences of not following some stupid government mandate.

Let this serve as a lesson to how inept and stupid the government can be when it gets too involved. If people demanded more fuel efficient cars (they do), then it's GM's loss for not selling them (it is). They don't need some bureaucrat telling them what they can and cannot sell.
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

Sell what people want, then worry about the consequences of not following some stupid government mandate.
You'd have to reunite Bob Putz (or Rick Wagonner?) with his crown jewels first.....:rolleyes:
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

So what's replacing the Lucerne, exactly?
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

So what's replacing the Lucerne, exactly?
Find out if there's anything replacing the DeVille and then I think you'll have your answer.....(logically speaking of course)

Or they could just cut the thing entirely.....
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

Find out if there's anything replacing the DeVille and then I think you'll have your answer.....(logically speaking of course)

Or they could just cut the thing entirely.....
Rumor has it that the next-gen Lacrosse will be bigger than the current one, so perhaps they're moving the Lacrosse upmarket, and bringing in the Regal to slot underneath.

So we went from cranking out LeSabres and Park Avenues by the truckload 5 years ago, to a planned complete shuttering of the Buick large sedan?

Lot of customers aren't going to be pleased.
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

Rumor has it that the next-gen Lacrosse will be bigger than the current one, so perhaps they're moving the Lacrosse upmarket, and bringing in the Regal to slot underneath.

So we went from cranking out LeSabres and Park Avenues by the truckload 5 years ago, to a planned complete shuttering of the Buick large sedan?

Lot of customers aren't going to be pleased.
As long as the DTS is still alive, I'm sure it's platform-mate (?) will be too.........a few reviews I've read here and there have even gone so far as to recommend the Lucerne Super over the DTS (as it's basically the same ride with different styling for less coin).

As for the LaCrosse sort of pushing it into it's grave as you kinda alluded to, it would probably depend on how far upmarket they intend to position it. Even then, I wouldn't expect the Lucerne to go anywhere anytime soon. Cadillac hasn't axed the DTS in favor of the CTS (and it's planned variants)......so I'm betting the Lucerne will stick it out until they get their **** together.
 

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Re: Lutz' comments on Corvette,Camaro, Outlook and Chevy & Buick RWD cars in Wards...

Rumor has it that the next-gen Lacrosse will be bigger than the current one, so perhaps they're moving the Lacrosse upmarket, and bringing in the Regal to slot underneath.

So we went from cranking out LeSabres and Park Avenues by the truckload 5 years ago, to a planned complete shuttering of the Buick large sedan?

Lot of customers aren't going to be pleased.
Typical GM modus operandi

Have a vehicle that is desirable and sells many, and let it wither / screw it up to the point where it is worthless and shuttered

Camaro/Firebird
Olds Calais / Buick Skylark
Buick anything
Chevy Astro / GMC Safari
Pontiac Grand Prix
Oldsmobile (!)

etc etc, throw in Ford Thunderbird too



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