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Cadillac dealerships DO provide customer service that's among the best of any luxury automotive brand. Moreover, Cadillac improved in this survey to a greater extent than Lexus, which had ranked #1 in 2012 and 2013 (Cadillac held the #2 spot both those years). Cadillac's commitment to providing its customers the best service experience possible is absolute, and the JDP CSI survey confirms this.
Wow, I think you actually believe that. So Cadillac can't sell cars....just because? I'm not even sure that an adult conversation can actually be had with somebody who would suggest that Cadillac actually has superior customer service to Lexus. Literally, the proposition is ridiculous on it's face. Keep riding the metro.

As I stated earlier, the real issue is with the people who don't buy their cars, not with the minority who do. And Cadillac is pulling ATS and CTS production back precisely because too many people are voting that Cadillac has sub-par customer service with their wallet.
 

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So then, we can logically assume, the fact that Toyota sells more cars than GM does must mean that Toyota is a notably superior product to GM as that is effectively people voting with their wallet. You can't have it both ways, a vote by keypad or by checkbook is still a vote, so feel free to agree to the superiority of Toyota over GM at anytime.

You're referencing a graph that insinuates Cadillac provides superb customer service to that offered by Lexus. Even you havent drank that much Kool Aid.
You're trying to change the subject again. You can't seem to provide evidence that Lincoln "is leaps and bounds" better than Cadillac at customer service.

 

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Wow, I think you actually believe that. So Cadillac can't sell cars....just because? I'm not even sure that an adult conversation can actually be had with somebody who would suggest that Cadillac actually has superior customer service to Lexus. Literally, the proposition is ridiculous on it's face. Keep riding the metro.

As I stated earlier, the real issue is with the people who don't buy their cars, not with the minority who do. And Cadillac is pulling ATS and CTS production back precisely because too many people are voting that Cadillac has sub-par customer service with their wallet.
1) Makes statement that Lincoln is "leaps and bounds" beyond Cadillac in terms of service (despite evidence to the contrary).
2) Implies that Cadillac can't sell cars because of poor customer service (see above).
3) Cadillac outsells Lincoln by more than 3:1
 

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It's not a terrible idea and I like how it is subtle but adds premium elements, but at the end of the day they are still warmed over Fords with ugly front ends.
 

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You're trying to change the subject again. You can't seem to provide evidence that Lincoln "is leaps and bounds" better than Cadillac at customer service.
It seemed unlikely to me that you would have never found an opportunity to comment on JD Power results before, and upon a quick search the very first result I found was this......a comment referring to Buick scoring as highly as Lexus did on a JD Power vehicle dependability survey

free_energy0 said:
Most Buicks roll of the same line as other GM vehicles, yet Buick scores well because the buyers are so old and have different expectations which result in higher rankings. Same thing with Mercury. Lexus buyers are much more discerning. I know this isn't what most GM fans want to hear, but it is reality.
Ironically, or perhaps not, that is almost exactly the same issue I expressed above. How can I place any value in a survey that would suggest that Cadillac has better customer service than Lexus? We both know that insinuation is ridiculous, in no small pat because it doesn't take into account things like differences in the consume base, which I also mention earlier and which you alluded to above. If the survey is that fundamentally flawed, how can any part of it then be taken seriously? It's worthless and you know it.

In a definite twist of irony, one of our then resident GM hacks questioned what was a well thought out statement by you because the graph didn't agree with you and you didn't produce one in response. A real shame that you've gone from genuinely valuable contributions to the other side of that fence.

1) Makes statement that Lincoln is "leaps and bounds" beyond Cadillac in terms of service (despite evidence to the contrary).
2) Implies that Cadillac can't sell cars because of poor customer service (see above).
3) Cadillac outsells Lincoln by more than 3:1
Lincoln is leaps and bounds beyond Cadillac in that regard, because they've instituted things that have created and will continue to create real change in their dealership body and factory customer service experience. Lincoln date night, Black label and all the perks and incentives that come with it for both the consumer and the dealership, and tangible improvements in things like roadside assistance which is now limitless for the original owner are worthwhile efforts that make a difference. Comparatively, GM has spent most of their time worrying about other things and paying little attention to this area. The most significant change I can think of is a change in policy a few years back that stated that XTS owners would begin receiving the same, higher level of customer service moving forward that Volt owners were already getting. That is not a ringing endorsement.
 

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It seemed unlikely to me that you would have never found an opportunity to comment on JD Power results before, and upon a quick search the very first result I found was this......a comment referring to Buick scoring as highly as Lexus did on a JD Power vehicle dependability survey



Ironically, or perhaps not, that is almost exactly the same issue I expressed above. How can I place any value in a survey that would suggest that Cadillac has better customer service than Lexus? We both know that insinuation is ridiculous, in no small pat because it doesn't take into account things like differences in the consume base, which I also mention earlier and which you alluded to above. If the survey is that fundamentally flawed, how can any part of it then be taken seriously? It's worthless and you know it.

In a definite twist of irony, one of our then resident GM hacks questioned what was a well thought out statement by you because the graph didn't agree with you and you didn't produce one in response. A real shame that you've gone from genuinely valuable contributions to the other side of that fence.



Lincoln is leaps and bounds beyond Cadillac in that regard, because they've instituted things that have created and will continue to create real change in their dealership body and factory customer service experience. Lincoln date night, Black label and all the perks and incentives that come with it for both the consumer and the dealership, and tangible improvements in things like roadside assistance which is now limitless for the original owner are worthwhile efforts that make a difference. Comparatively, GM has spent most of their time worrying about other things and paying little attention to this area. The most significant change I can think of is a change in policy a few years back that stated that XTS owners would begin receiving the same, higher level of customer service moving forward that Volt owners were already getting. That is not a ringing endorsement.
The brand's scores all have a degree of normativity for their respective clientele, but by this standard Lincoln compares even less favorably to Cadillac considering the latter has higher ATPs and a more discerning buyer, i.e a Cadillac buyer might be impressed by a Lexus dealer, but a Lincoln buyer would be blown away. The JDP data, even through the lens of my statement above regarding Buick's buyers, and that which you are endorsing, makes your statement about Lincoln's "leaps and bounds beyond" customer service even more BS.
 

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The brand's scores all have a degree of normativity for their respective clientele, but by this standard Lincoln compares even less favorably to Cadillac considering the latter has higher ATPs and a more discerning buyer, i.e a Cadillac buyer might be impressed by a Lexus dealer, but a Lincoln buyer would be blown away. The JDP data, even through the lens of my statement above regarding Buick's buyers, and that which you are endorsing, makes your statement about Lincoln's "leaps and bounds beyond" customer service even more BS.
Cadillac has a more discerning buyer based upon what criteria? Escalade certainly doesn't attract a more discerning buyer overall being just as likely if not more likely to scrape the bottom of the new money barrel as to attract the Southern Living crowd. (GMC would be a better example for the latter) I mean, this is the crowd Cadillac is trying to sway with their 'Fame' commercial which may as well be titled as the "People Who Love Pimped Out Hood Rides Unite' commercial. ATS and CTS? Currently they appear to be doing more to sway the existing GM owner base 'done well' to trade up from their Impala or LaCrosse than to wrangle anybody out of their 6 Series Gran Coupe or C Class. I could go on, but you get the point. The notion that the Cadillac client base is currently, in general, one of great taste and distinction is just giggle inducing.

You can't have it both ways, try as you might. And as is almost always the case, time is just going to prove me right again.
 

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Wow, I think you actually believe that. So Cadillac can't sell cars....just because? I'm not even sure that an adult conversation can actually be had with somebody who would suggest that Cadillac actually has superior customer service to Lexus. Literally, the proposition is ridiculous on it's face. Keep riding the metro.
Adult conversation? :lmao:

It's YOUR assertion that Cadillac does not excel at customer service that's "ridiculous on its face". As usual, you provide zero evidence to corroborate your claims (not surprising because those claims are fallacious).

Also, it's Metra, not metro.
 

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Adult conversation? :lmao:

It's YOUR assertion that Cadillac does not excel at customer service that's "ridiculous on its face". As usual, you provide zero evidence to corroborate your claims (not surprising because those claims are fallacious).

Also, it's Metra, not metro.
Wow, you really like public transport way too much....let it go.

As for superior customer service, I would settle for evidence that it actually exists. And something beyond a generic award that even your cohort discredited in an earlier thread. You can walk into some Cadillac stores and still get the same level of service as the guy in the Spark on the other side of the lot. That isn't just evidence, it's a conviction.

And while that may be good enough for you, it isn't good enough for a genuine luxury customer.
 

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Lincoln is leaps and bounds beyond Cadillac in that regard, because they've instituted things that have created and will continue to create real change in their dealership body and factory customer service experience. Lincoln date night, Black label and all the perks and incentives that come with it for both the consumer and the dealership, and tangible improvements in things like roadside assistance which is now limitless for the original owner are worthwhile efforts that make a difference. Comparatively, GM has spent most of their time worrying about other things and paying little attention to this area. The most significant change I can think of is a change in policy a few years back that stated that XTS owners would begin receiving the same, higher level of customer service moving forward that Volt owners were already getting. That is not a ringing endorsement.
So, are customers stampeding into Lincoln dealerships since Lincoln is leaps and bounds beyond Cadillac in regards to customer service (according to you)? That's the bottom line.
 

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Cadillac has a more discerning buyer based upon what criteria? Escalade certainly doesn't attract a more discerning buyer overall being just as likely if not more likely to scrape the bottom of the new money barrel as to attract the Southern Living crowd. (GMC would be a better example for the latter) I mean, this is the crowd Cadillac is trying to sway with their 'Fame' commercial which may as well be titled as the "People Who Love Pimped Out Hood Rides Unite' commercial. ATS and CTS? Currently they appear to be doing more to sway the existing GM owner base 'done well' to trade up from their Impala or LaCrosse than to wrangle anybody out of their 6 Series Gran Coupe or C Class. I could go on, but you get the point. The notion that the Cadillac client base is currently, in general, one of great taste and distinction is just giggle inducing.
If Cadillac is Southern Living, then that would make Lincoln Joe Dirt Monthly. Do you think the guy looking at a CTS is the same as one looking at a MKS? Does any Lincoln get compared to the 3 series, A6, or any German car? Also, the Escalade isn't bought by the same folks who bought them years ago, in fact Escalade buyers have an annual income over $200K. In addition, Cadillac's ATPs are significantly higher, and it's buyers are both younger and wealthier.

As is almost always the case, time is just going to prove me right again
Good Lord, the more you're wrong the more delusional you get. You've already been proven wrong in this thread, and I can think of several examples from memory were your automotive analysis and predictions have been complete dog $**t.
 

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So, are customers stampeding into Lincoln dealerships since Lincoln is leaps and bounds beyond Cadillac in regards to customer service (according to you)? That's the bottom line.
Ill give you a hint, both GM and the people on this forum spend too much time thinking about where Cadillac is, and the very near term, and not nearly enough time thinking about where they are going. Luxury customers aren't rushing into Cadillac or Lincoln dealerships, and they won't be anytime soon, but the plans they make now will be determining whether or not they are in another five or ten years. What Cadillac is doing right now, won't work. New management may change that, they may not.

If Cadillac is Southern Living, then that would make Lincoln Joe Dirt Monthly. Do you think the guy looking at a CTS is the same as one looking at a MKS? Does any Lincoln get compared to the 3 series, A6, or any German car? Also, the Escalade isn't bought by the same folks who bought them years ago, in fact Escalade buyers have an annual income over $200K. In addition, Cadillac's ATPs are significantly higher, and it's buyers are both younger and wealthier.
Who said that Cadillac is Southern Living? Cadillac isn't nearly on that level yet, and that wasn't at all the comparison I made. I'm aware of the average income of Escalade buyers, and that it is significantly higher than the average for the rest of the Cadillac brand. I'm also aware of the average buyer age and the high ATP's Cadillac enjoys, both of which owe something to Escalade as well. So, ask yourself this, why isn't Cadillac trying to chase the same ethos that worked for the Escalade elsewhere? An Escalade Sport would be easy enough to create from the new Trailblazer suv, it seems like a no brainer. And why didn't the new Escalade debut sporting even more luxury goods than it does? For a vehicle this expensive and this large, there are a lot of luxury features missing from the options list.

Escalade is expensive, and it's a seller, and it just so happens to largely sell to people who have a good deal of money but who aren't really genuine 'luxury' customers. And, sadly, in many cases those people don't possess a great amount of taste. The vehicle doesn't possess or offer a lot of those added luxury accoutrements other brands might and do offer because that isn't generally what brings Escalade customers into the showroom, and Cadillac knows it. Cadillac isn't pursuing that market any further with other product because, by and large, those aren't the kind of customers they want to build their brand upon. And at least in this case, they aren't wrong, they need a more selective, more discerning clientele than the typical Escalade buyer even if they do like their money.

Lesson? Don't mistake money for refinement or taste, they aren't the same thing.


Good Lord, the more you're wrong the more delusional you get. You've already been proven wrong in this thread, and I can think of several examples from memory were your automotive analysis and predictions have been complete dog $**t.
Frankly, it still cracks me up that the stuff I say pisses you off so badly. As for my predictions, speaking to Cadillac I called ATS and CTS sales long before they even hit the market, I also called GM's little internal conundrum with XTS, and I've called GM's sub par ROI since 2008. I could go on and on, but why? I was wrong on Camaro, but everyone has an off day. The truth is that predicting what is going to occur with Cadillac has thus far been easy, largely because their mistakes have been so glaringly obvious. Again, will new management change that? Maybe, but I'll have to see it to believe it.
 

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I don't care if you want to go on a tangent about your grievances with Cadillac's management, but you are pretty much full of **** re: your statements on Cadillac v. Lincoln customer service. It's not that hard to objectively recognize you've been checkmated by evidence that contradicts your own statement. You are free to feel like Lincoln has leaps and bounds better customer service, based on your own personal experience or whatever, but other than a treadmill of qualifiers, distractions, or inconsistent reasoning, you don't have any evidence to support that.

PS: I don't know what Southern Living is.
 

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Gee, another Lincoln thread that has turned into one big pissing match.

What a surprise. :rolleyes:

That being said, I really like Black Label. It gives luxury buyers one of the things that they crave............... basically, not seeing their exact same car on every street corner. If you don't like it, or think it is stupid, or think people who would buy it are stupid................ well, chances are you are not a Lincoln customer anyway, not even potentially, neither now, or in the future.
 
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