[syr74]

Honestly, a lot of people are missing the point here. Black Label is another part of the strategy Lincoln is using to bring customer service up to a level where selling fully premium cars through their dealership network isn't a silly proposition. Since they literally cannot easily make dealerships provide a Lexus-like dealership experience, they keep looking for new strategies and end runs to dangle carrots in front of the dealership body in an effort to compel them to up their game of their own volition. The fact that Lincoln can package these incentives into something that plays into a higher end marketing ploy is just icing on the cake.

Wherever you may think these two brands are relative to product cadence, in terms of finding ways to provide a truly premium customer service experience Lincoln is leaps and bounds beyond where Cadillac is right now. In fact, Cadillac only really began taking this part of the equation seriously a little less than two years ago.

 

[syr74]

Point well taken.

Thanks. Cadillac needs a bespoke marketing/ordering scheme and they need to use it to reward dealerships that provide the kind of service cars like the ATS and CTS deserve and need to thrive in the marketplace. Honestly, given the relatively more brash reputation Cadillac has always carried over the years compared to Lincoln, a bespoke marketing approach should be a slam dunk implementation for them.

 

[syr74]

Just saw this on Jokes.com:

"An older man walks into a bar wearing a stovepipe hat, a waistcoat and a phony beard. He sits down at a bar and orders a drink. As the bartender sets it down, he asks, "Going to a party?"

"Yeah, a costume party," the man answers, "I'm supposed to come dressed as my love life."

"But you look like Abe Lincoln," protests the bartender.

"That's right. My last four scores were seven years ago."

Prior to the MKC Lincoln's last scores were even further back than that....but you gotta start somewhere. I think the MKC, the upcoming MKX, and the Black Label approach along with other changes made to the customer service experience serve as solid footing. But, they have to keep moving the ball forward or it will all be pointless.

 

[syr74]

Graph and stuff

So, based upon that graph, I can only assume that BMW and Lexus customers will come stampeding into Cadillac showrooms any moment now to bask in the unparalleled customer service offered by that brand? And this for Lincoln too apparently? Of course, the problem here is that those surveys are asking people who actually bought cars from those brands what they think, and as we all know it is the people who aren't buying cars from Lincoln and Cadillac who are the problem.

As for the Black Label commentary, when I think of Black Label I think of Bentley and Ralph Lauren. But then, that may be the point. Or, to put it more bluntly, do the people Cadillac and Lincoln want to sell cars to even know that Hormel makes bacon or that Johnny Walker offers a black label whiskey by and large?

 

[syr74]

Based upon that graph, it is clear that Lincoln is not "leaps and bounds beyond Cadillac" in terms of customer service. Rambling about BMW and Lexus doesn't change the fact that you're demonstrably wrong.

So then, we can logically assume, the fact that Toyota sells more cars than GM does must mean that Toyota is a notably superior product to GM as that is effectively people voting with their wallet. You can't have it both ways, a vote by keypad or by checkbook is still a vote, so feel free to agree to the superiority of Toyota over GM at anytime.

You're referencing a graph that insinuates Cadillac provides superb customer service to that offered by Lexus. Even you havent drank that much Kool Aid.

 

[syr74]

Cadillac dealerships DO provide customer service that's among the best of any luxury automotive brand. Moreover, Cadillac improved in this survey to a greater extent than Lexus, which had ranked #1 in 2012 and 2013 (Cadillac held the #2 spot both those years). Cadillac's commitment to providing its customers the best service experience possible is absolute, and the JDP CSI survey confirms this.

Wow, I think you actually believe that. So Cadillac can't sell cars....just because? I'm not even sure that an adult conversation can actually be had with somebody who would suggest that Cadillac actually has superior customer service to Lexus. Literally, the proposition is ridiculous on it's face. Keep riding the metro.

As I stated earlier, the real issue is with the people who don't buy their cars, not with the minority who do. And Cadillac is pulling ATS and CTS production back precisely because too many people are voting that Cadillac has sub-par customer service with their wallet.

 

[syr74]

You're trying to change the subject again. You can't seem to provide evidence that Lincoln "is leaps and bounds" better than Cadillac at customer service.

It seemed unlikely to me that you would have never found an opportunity to comment on JD Power results before, and upon a quick search the very first result I found was this......a comment referring to Buick scoring as highly as Lexus did on a JD Power vehicle dependability survey

Most Buicks roll of the same line as other GM vehicles, yet Buick scores well because the buyers are so old and have different expectations which result in higher rankings. Same thing with Mercury. Lexus buyers are much more discerning. I know this isn't what most GM fans want to hear, but it is reality.

Ironically, or perhaps not, that is almost exactly the same issue I expressed above. How can I place any value in a survey that would suggest that Cadillac has better customer service than Lexus? We both know that insinuation is ridiculous, in no small pat because it doesn't take into account things like differences in the consume base, which I also mention earlier and which you alluded to above. If the survey is that fundamentally flawed, how can any part of it then be taken seriously? It's worthless and you know it.

In a definite twist of irony, one of our then resident GM hacks questioned what was a well thought out statement by you because the graph didn't agree with you and you didn't produce one in response. A real shame that you've gone from genuinely valuable contributions to the other side of that fence.

1) Makes statement that Lincoln is "leaps and bounds" beyond Cadillac in terms of service (despite evidence to the contrary).
2) Implies that Cadillac can't sell cars because of poor customer service (see above).
3) Cadillac outsells Lincoln by more than 3:1

Lincoln is leaps and bounds beyond Cadillac in that regard, because they've instituted things that have created and will continue to create real change in their dealership body and factory customer service experience. Lincoln date night, Black label and all the perks and incentives that come with it for both the consumer and the dealership, and tangible improvements in things like roadside assistance which is now limitless for the original owner are worthwhile efforts that make a difference. Comparatively, GM has spent most of their time worrying about other things and paying little attention to this area. The most significant change I can think of is a change in policy a few years back that stated that XTS owners would begin receiving the same, higher level of customer service moving forward that Volt owners were already getting. That is not a ringing endorsement.

 

[syr74]

The brand's scores all have a degree of normativity for their respective clientele, but by this standard Lincoln compares even less favorably to Cadillac considering the latter has higher ATPs and a more discerning buyer, i.e a Cadillac buyer might be impressed by a Lexus dealer, but a Lincoln buyer would be blown away. The JDP data, even through the lens of my statement above regarding Buick's buyers, and that which you are endorsing, makes your statement about Lincoln's "leaps and bounds beyond" customer service even more BS.

Cadillac has a more discerning buyer based upon what criteria? Escalade certainly doesn't attract a more discerning buyer overall being just as likely if not more likely to scrape the bottom of the new money barrel as to attract the Southern Living crowd. (GMC would be a better example for the latter) I mean, this is the crowd Cadillac is trying to sway with their 'Fame' commercial which may as well be titled as the "People Who Love Pimped Out Hood Rides Unite' commercial. ATS and CTS? Currently they appear to be doing more to sway the existing GM owner base 'done well' to trade up from their Impala or LaCrosse than to wrangle anybody out of their 6 Series Gran Coupe or C Class. I could go on, but you get the point. The notion that the Cadillac client base is currently, in general, one of great taste and distinction is just giggle inducing.

You can't have it both ways, try as you might. And as is almost always the case, time is just going to prove me right again.

 

[syr74]

Adult conversation? :lmao:

It's YOUR assertion that Cadillac does not excel at customer service that's "ridiculous on its face". As usual, you provide zero evidence to corroborate your claims (not surprising because those claims are fallacious).

Also, it's Metra, not metro.

Wow, you really like public transport way too much....let it go.

As for superior customer service, I would settle for evidence that it actually exists. And something beyond a generic award that even your cohort discredited in an earlier thread. You can walk into some Cadillac stores and still get the same level of service as the guy in the Spark on the other side of the lot. That isn't just evidence, it's a conviction.

And while that may be good enough for you, it isn't good enough for a genuine luxury customer.

 

[syr74]

So, are customers stampeding into Lincoln dealerships since Lincoln is leaps and bounds beyond Cadillac in regards to customer service (according to you)? That's the bottom line.

Ill give you a hint, both GM and the people on this forum spend too much time thinking about where Cadillac is, and the very near term, and not nearly enough time thinking about where they are going. Luxury customers aren't rushing into Cadillac or Lincoln dealerships, and they won't be anytime soon, but the plans they make now will be determining whether or not they are in another five or ten years. What Cadillac is doing right now, won't work. New management may change that, they may not.

If Cadillac is Southern Living, then that would make Lincoln Joe Dirt Monthly. Do you think the guy looking at a CTS is the same as one looking at a MKS? Does any Lincoln get compared to the 3 series, A6, or any German car? Also, the Escalade isn't bought by the same folks who bought them years ago, in fact Escalade buyers have an annual income over $200K. In addition, Cadillac's ATPs are significantly higher, and it's buyers are both younger and wealthier.

Who said that Cadillac is Southern Living? Cadillac isn't nearly on that level yet, and that wasn't at all the comparison I made. I'm aware of the average income of Escalade buyers, and that it is significantly higher than the average for the rest of the Cadillac brand. I'm also aware of the average buyer age and the high ATP's Cadillac enjoys, both of which owe something to Escalade as well. So, ask yourself this, why isn't Cadillac trying to chase the same ethos that worked for the Escalade elsewhere? An Escalade Sport would be easy enough to create from the new Trailblazer suv, it seems like a no brainer. And why didn't the new Escalade debut sporting even more luxury goods than it does? For a vehicle this expensive and this large, there are a lot of luxury features missing from the options list.

Escalade is expensive, and it's a seller, and it just so happens to largely sell to people who have a good deal of money but who aren't really genuine 'luxury' customers. And, sadly, in many cases those people don't possess a great amount of taste. The vehicle doesn't possess or offer a lot of those added luxury accoutrements other brands might and do offer because that isn't generally what brings Escalade customers into the showroom, and Cadillac knows it. Cadillac isn't pursuing that market any further with other product because, by and large, those aren't the kind of customers they want to build their brand upon. And at least in this case, they aren't wrong, they need a more selective, more discerning clientele than the typical Escalade buyer even if they do like their money.

Lesson? Don't mistake money for refinement or taste, they aren't the same thing.

Good Lord, the more you're wrong the more delusional you get. You've already been proven wrong in this thread, and I can think of several examples from memory were your automotive analysis and predictions have been complete dog $**t.

Frankly, it still cracks me up that the stuff I say pisses you off so badly. As for my predictions, speaking to Cadillac I called ATS and CTS sales long before they even hit the market, I also called GM's little internal conundrum with XTS, and I've called GM's sub par ROI since 2008. I could go on and on, but why? I was wrong on Camaro, but everyone has an off day. The truth is that predicting what is going to occur with Cadillac has thus far been easy, largely because their mistakes have been so glaringly obvious. Again, will new management change that? Maybe, but I'll have to see it to believe it.