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It's been mere weeks since the first Ford Bronco deliveries began, and some teething problems have already come to the fore. Owners who took delivery of early build SUVs have already reported issues with the removable hardtop roof, a major part of what makes a Bronco, well, a Bronco.
It was widely reported earlier this year that the Bronco's "Achilles' heel," from a production standpoint, was the hardtop's manufacturer, Webasto, which couldn't make enough units to fill demand. Some owners had their build dates pushed back, others weren't given a new one—all this, mostly due to pandemic-related delays. Then, in mid June, Ford announced that Bronco production had officially begun.
 

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Even with small quantities in the defense industry we usually find a second source of most components to avoid issues like this. I'm surprised that a HUGE manufacturing company like Ford (and others) don't have more second sources.
 

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I hate to say it mbukanyau but GM still doesn't have an answer to the Bronco.

That being said, Ford doesn't have an answer to Webasto either. Henry's Mausoleum is likely Well Rotated right now. Being he was heavily invested in Owning every part of the Business's Needs. I suspect Ford is working on solutions to the Webasto Problem as we are Bashing the Launch. A Multi Billion Dollar Product, won't wait for a Small Supplier's issues.
 

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Ah...and GM is still having launch problems as well w/ their Wrangler competitor...they still haven't developed one. Lets see who get's theirs out first before we celebrate Ford's problems...shall we?
That was the worst part about GM shutting down the Hummer franchise. Each new Hummer model was a smaller and less expensive vehicle. You just KNOW that the next one out (H4) would have been really hitting that Jeep franchise.

Now we have a new GMC Hummer coming out. It looks like we're starting over at the top. Hopefully we can expand the line down market before too long.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I hate to say it mbukanyau but GM still doesn't have an answer to the Bronco.

That being said, Ford doesn't have an answer to Webasto either. Henry's Mausoleum is likely Well Rotated right now. Being he was heavily invested in Owning every part of the Business's Needs. I suspect Ford is working on solutions to the Webasto Problem as we are Bashing the Launch. A Multi Billion Dollar Product, won't wait for a Small Supplier's issues.
Ah, this is true, there is no Bronco counterpart in Chevrolet's dealership or Merverick. However, GM has has been busy doing other things, the two companies are on totally different paths lately.

Hummer as a brand is back, but it is a very different HUMMER from the one that died with Lutz
 

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hmmm 2 different paths you say? I sadly agree, Ford is in the business of building actual usable EVs while simultaneously developing ICE models while GM is building factories and electric toys while their ICE lineup not named Corvette or full size SUV gets starved of innovation.

One still builds cars, the other is satisfying investors at the cost of consumers.
 

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hmmm 2 different paths you say? I sadly agree, Ford is in the business of building actual usable EVs while simultaneously developing ICE models while GM is building factories and electric toys while their ICE lineup not named Corvette or full size SUV gets starved of innovation.

One still builds cars, the other is satisfying investors at the cost of consumers.
You can't put the cart before the horse, so the factories are necessary to meet the goals GM has set. They are lofty goals with no future ICE development. I think both strategies will work in the end. Ford has definitely made some impressive moves with the electric mustang and the f150...it was a good call on their part to choose those vehicles to start with. GM is looking at the long game and profits...as a business, thats definitely necessary. Which one pays off in the end, we are yet to see. I have hope for both companies as their health is important to the economic health of this country.
 

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You can't put the cart before the horse, so the factories are necessary to meet the goals GM has set. They are lofty goals with no future ICE development. I think both strategies will work in the end. Ford has definitely made some impressive moves with the electric mustang and the f150...it was a good call on their part to choose those vehicles to start with. GM is looking at the long game and profits...as a business, thats definitely necessary. Which one pays off in the end, we are yet to see. I have hope for both companies as their health is important to the economic health of this country.
To be fair, I think both companies have similar goals...fully EV by '30-'35 with a few mainstream products by 2025, its just that GM is placing a priority on building out infrastructure in hopes that they can sell the architecture on its own as well as selling their own vehicles on Ultium and Ford is playing small ball in that regard-only caring about their own products.

Ultimately we're going to be at a point in the near future where all of the big players are going to be building their own batteries/platform whether it be a fully independent effort or through some sort of JV...its just that everyone else is prioritizing product and getting early market share. GM will be late to that party and I'm not 100% sold that Ultium will be superior to the point where it'll pull conquest sales from the makes that staked their ground early.
 

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To be fair, I think both companies have similar goals...fully EV by '30-'35 with a few mainstream products by 2025, its just that GM is placing a priority on building out infrastructure in hopes that they can sell the architecture on its own as well as selling their own vehicles on Ultium and Ford is playing small ball in that regard-only caring about their own products.

Ultimately we're going to be at a point in the near future where all of the big players are going to be building their own batteries/platform whether it be a fully independent effort or through some sort of JV...its just that everyone else is prioritizing product and getting early market share. GM will be late to that party and I'm not 100% sold that Ultium will be superior to the point where it'll pull conquest sales from the makes that staked their ground early.
That last part... And at what point do they fold or give up building actual vehicles( a big IF ) and just run with their battery gig peddling it to the others? They are, so they say... a ... lol... Technology Company ;) :D.
 

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That last part... And at what point do they fold or give up building actual vehicles( a big IF ) and just run with their battery gig peddling it to the others? They are, so they say... a ... lol... Technology Company ;) :D.
The part that really concerns me is that they're doing all of this to find partners to get into bed with....what if all of those potential mates go out and build their own (which it looks like what they're doing) leaving GM to have this thing they want to sell, but with no buyers. Look at the Honda agreement...yes Honda is on board for a while, but ultimately they're going to develop their own...I don't think it's a bad deal, but it just highlights a potential problem with going about building the company w/ this mindset.

And then again, I could be wrong, and GM can just be sitting back waiting to unleash deep market penetrating EVs by 2025-26 and they're just letting everyone else show their hand. Interesting times ahead!
 

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The part that really concerns me is that they're doing all of this to find partners to get into bed with....what if all of those potential mates go out and build their own (which it looks like what they're doing) leaving GM to have this thing they want to sell, but with no buyers. Look at the Honda agreement...yes Honda is on board for a while, but ultimately they're going to develop their own...I don't think it's a bad deal, but it just highlights a potential problem with going about building the company w/ this mindset.

And then again, I could be wrong, and GM can just be sitting back waiting to unleash deep market penetrating EVs by 2025-26 and they're just letting everyone else show their hand. Interesting times ahead!
I see the partnerships as a way to share costs. Introducing and refining a brand new vehicle is expensive, and the technologies change quickly at first. Sure the partnerships may diverge over time, but they benefit both parties while they exist. Honda and GM don't have a lot of overlapping products, so the chances of them being strong competitors is small.
 

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I see the partnerships as a way to share costs. Introducing and refining a brand new vehicle is expensive, and the technologies change quickly at first. Sure the partnerships may diverge over time, but they benefit both parties while they exist. Honda and GM don't have a lot of overlapping products, so the chances of them being strong competitors is small.
Correct these partnerships are a way to share costs...but those Honda products are going to be in segments that GM does intend on playing...from what I read those Honda/Acura EVs will be crossovers. The catch here is that even though these are in segments GM participates in, these vehicles will likely sell to buyers who wouldn't consider a GM under different circumstances, which will give GM a piece of the pie from a transaction where they'd be normally not invited to the table...Problem for GM is that these don't seem like long term partnerships, just bridge partnerships until they can get their own up and going. What I would've liked to see...if I were an investor, a long term partnership, that's sorta my only gripe.
 

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But back to the Bronco...and GM I guess, is that GM screwed the pooch by making the Hummer EV so GD big. Like...seriously....why is it so big? Its only a 5 seater, but does it need to be the size of a freaking Sherp to do it's job?

GM could've either made the SUV a 3 row to cut off the Wagoneer at its knees or made it smaller to make an electric alternative to the Bronco and Jeep....last thing that they should've done was make the eH SUT/SUV this gargantuan borderline useless mess that it is going to be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
That last part... And at what point do they fold or give up building actual vehicles( a big IF ) and just run with their battery gig peddling it to the others? They are, so they say... a ... lol... Technology Company ;) :D.
Automotive companies have always been technology companies, that is what they do, develop transportation technology systems
 

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I see the partnerships as a way to share costs. Introducing and refining a brand new vehicle is expensive, and the technologies change quickly at first. Sure the partnerships may diverge over time, but they benefit both parties while they exist. Honda and GM don't have a lot of overlapping products, so the chances of them being strong competitors is small.
Could be, but I really gotta wonder. :unsure:
 

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But back to the Bronco...and GM I guess, is that GM screwed the pooch by making the Hummer EV so GD big. Like...seriously....why is it so big? Its only a 5 seater, but does it need to be the size of a freaking Sherp to do it's job?

GM could've either made the SUV a 3 row to cut off the Wagoneer at its knees or made it smaller to make an electric alternative to the Bronco and Jeep....last thing that they should've done was make the eH SUT/SUV this gargantuan borderline useless mess that it is going to be.
I suspect, like last time around, the Hummer will start off with the largest, most expensive models and eventually work their way down to their smaller, more rationally priced models. We shall see, of course.
 
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