[Serpens]

Brands self-select their clients through their positioning. Are there people who don't care about or get brand positioning and shop everything in a price range or size class? Of course, but that's not what we are talking about.

The whole purpose of the Range Rover Sport's positioning was to grab some of the sport luxury SUV class that includes the Cayenne. That has been the sole reason for making variants like the SVR with seats like this:

They could've just made a smaller Range Rover, but they didn't as they knew there was some addressable market outside their typical circle.

 

[mgescuro]

Jag just needs to define what it wants to be moving forward. I always viewed Jag as Grand Touring, not full on luxury or performance (outside of a few models). I think GT is the sweet spot for most people and the market - British luxury with a touch of sport, great for a daily driver but fun on the weekends.

The JLR CEO has stated that there probably won't be any sports cars in the future Jaguar lineup, which I find disappointing.

 

[sdotjeezy]

The JLR CEO has stated that there probably won't be any sports cars in the future Jaguar lineup, which I find disappointing.

Agreed I'm going to miss the F Type...one of my favorite cars in the road. Looks like either the J is dying or we'll see a whittled down lineup of iPaces in various sizes

 

[mgescuro]

There is no vehicle dle without competition, no matter how they position themselves. There is always someone after the dollars.
say Range Rover Sport, there is a lot of players in that price point, and consumers consider everything.

you’d be surprised how many people leave the house going to buy this and come home with that, just by a test drive.

There will always be a subset of consumers who select a car solely on the basis of price.
I'm saying that there are brands that cater to a certain clientele by their brand image. And those consumers will naturally gravitate towards those brands/products.

What I'm saying is that Cayenne and Range Rover Sport are 2 distinct buyer groups, with little overlap.

You have 2 customer groups that are very well educated and very well heeled. Price will not be a major deciding factor. It is the intangibles the brand and product will provide the buyer that will ultimately be the deciding factor.

 

[mgescuro]

Agreed I'm going to miss the F Type...one of my favorite cars in the road. Looks like either the J is dying or we'll see a whittled down lineup of iPaces in various sizes

XJ is shelved in the short to medium term, with room to return, should the market shift. I'm OK with that.
At this stage, I just want Jaguar to survive, with whatever lineup and branding and positioning strategy they come up with.

You can extrapolate their future lineup easily.
I think it's safe to say that E and F will survive or evolve into new BEV products, just based on the market desire for CUVs, and the fact that E and F are the 2 most popular product currently. That's the bare minimum lineup.
I can see I-Pace returning and continuing, but it's a 50-50 shot. I can see it being differentiated from E and F Pace, but that's really dependent on where Jaguar is going.
Finally, if they expect to compete in China, then XE/XE-L or XF/XF-L will be necessary in some BEV form. The real question then becomes, is it one or the other? Or a blend of the two?

 

[Serpens]

I too share hopes that Jaguar will survive. I personally think they'll end up being jettisoned from under Tata and owned by some Chinese brand before the end of the decade. So sad that this brand hasn't been managed correctly for so long.

 

[mgescuro]

I too share hopes that Jaguar will survive. I personally think they'll end up being jettisoned from under Tata and owned by some Chinese brand before the end of the decade. So sad that this brand hasn't been managed correctly for so long.

I'm still hoping that fruit company in Cupertino comes to its senses and invests in JLR or acquires them.
(I know it's a long long long shot...)

 

[emh]

The whole purpose of the Range Rover Sport's positioning was to grab some of the sport luxury SUV class that includes the Cayenne. That has been the sole reason for making variants like the SVR with seats like this:

View attachment 63231

They could've just made a smaller Range Rover, but they didn't as they knew there was some addressable market outside their typical circle.

Every company will throw things at the wall to see if they stick. That doesn't mean the brand image becomes irrelevant or changes with those things without consistent and focused effort. What % of RR Sport sales do you think sell with those seats?

 

[Serpens]

Every company will throw things at the wall to see if they stick. That doesn't mean the brand image becomes irrelevant or changes with those things without consistent and focused effort. What % of RR Sport sales do you think sell with those seats?

This wasn't a chance happening of "seeing what sticks" and the percentage sold with those seats doesn't actually matter. Land Rover has been making a consistent and focused effort to make the Range Rover faster and better handling and overall sportier since its debut. That much is clear. The ability to go off road of course is tied to it being a Range Rover of course but this model's sole purpose is to reach into the sport realm for Cayenne buyers. Do you really think this has all been occurring in a vacuum? It's in LRs best interest to reach into every corner of the luxury market, even where the Cayenne squarely sits.

Just because they're not spec for spec head on competitors (i.e. BMW X5 & MB GLE) doesn't mean Land Rover doesn't see a competitor for what it is.

 

[emh]

This wasn't a chance happening of "seeing what sticks" and the percentage sold with those seats doesn't actually matter. Land Rover has been making a consistent and focused effort to make the Range Rover faster and better handling and overall sportier since its debut. That much is clear. The ability to go off road of course is tied to it being a Range Rover of course but this model's sole purpose is to reach into the sport realm for Cayenne buyers. Do you really think this has all been occurring in a vacuum? It's in LRs best interest to reach into every corner of the luxury market, even where the Cayenne squarely sits.

Just because they're not spec for spec head on competitors (i.e. BMW X5 & MB GLE) doesn't mean Land Rover doesn't see a competitor for what it is.

We can argue all we want but in terms of brand positioning, Porsche and RR are about as far apart as you could possibly get while still staying within the premium spectrum.

 

[Serpens]

We can argue all we want but in terms of brand positioning, Porsche and RR are about as far apart as you could possibly get while still staying within the premium spectrum.

That, of course, wasn't the point I was making in my original post (RR Sport and Cayenne being competitors, not RR & Porsche as a whole). But I'll play along in this nice and neat vacuum.

 

[emh]

That, of course, wasn't the point I was making in my original post (RR Sport and Cayenne being competitors, not RR & Porsche as a whole). But I'll play along in this nice and neat vacuum.

So your point is that brand positioning doesn't affect individual products from those brands? If so, that certainly sounds like operating in a vacuum to me.

 

[Serpens]

So your point is that brand positioning doesn't affect individual products from those brands? If so, that certainly sounds like operating in a vacuum to me.

My point is brand positioning does not completely prevent products from overlapping with the products of others, even if the others come from brands that are positioned differently. Things are not as nice and neat as people want them to be. There's overlap between the Cayenne and the RR Sport in the marketplace, plain and simple.

 

[mbukukanyau]

My point is brand positioning does not completely prevent products from overlapping with the products of others, even if the others come from brands that are positioned differently. Things are not as nice and neat as people want them to be. There's overlap between the Cayenne and the RR Sport in the marketplace, plain and simple.

Unless you are In the marketing department and believe your own coolaid, then other people feast on your lunch as you say.. but but, ours is a Mercedes or ours is a Cadillac or Lexus, look how far Lexus has fallen.. to a peddler of the RX, basically a Chevrolet Equinox V6 with good leather and less power than the old V6 ...

Lexus barely sells anything else these days

 

[emh]

My point is brand positioning does not completely prevent products from overlapping with the products of others, even if the others come from brands that are positioned differently. Things are not as nice and neat as people want them to be. There's overlap between the Cayenne and the RR Sport in the marketplace, plain and simple.

And we are going in circles. As I said earlier, there is "overlap" for people who don't care about brand positioning or don't get what brand positioning is about (including how it reflects on the customers). Those are not the buyers I'm talking about.

Given that we've beaten this dead horse enough to kill it a second time, I'll just leave it at that.

 

[richmond2000]

I'm still hoping that fruit company in Cupertino comes to its senses and invests in JLR or acquires them.
(I know it's a long long long shot...)

IMHO that would be the NEAR INSTANT death of Jaguar / JLR as the unnamed privacy fighting fruit co will WANT to make it 100% them and ditch any backstory OR legacy JLR HAD
and I for one do NOT want to see JLR hollowed out to make robo-jellybeans with a "john deere" grade repairability and locked in "store" only allowing you to use the iCHARGE network and NOT any other network

 

[mgescuro]

Unless you are In the marketing department and believe your own coolaid, then other people feast on your lunch as you say.. but but, ours is a Mercedes or ours is a Cadillac or Lexus, look how far Lexus has fallen.. to a peddler of the RX, basically a Chevrolet Equinox V6 with good leather and less power than the old V6 ...

Lexus barely sells anything else these days

Lexus has been in free fall for ~5 years or so. Why? Just look at the strength of the German lineups. And look at how Lexus models and designs haven't iterated in the same period. They are still the 3rd largest luxury brand in the US, marginally behind BMW but nearly 50K units behind Mercedes.

If you think the RX is an Equinox, you best head over to a Lexus dealership. They're not even in the same ballpark.

 

[Neanderthal]

I wish this would lead to a "take 'em off our hands" firesale of those old, outdated, ICE F-Type relics. Sign me up.

Fershur.

They have a good looking Jaguar crossover now, not for cars. Now buggy electrical systems will plague the whole car

Joseph Lucas, the Prince of Darkness. Corporate motto: Get home before dark.

Prince of Darkness – Joseph Lucas

History

mossmotoring.com

Apparently Jag is not going to have SUV's, seem odd.



The difference is; LR/Jag won't lose many sales?



What the purpose of a car-filled Jaguar?

From the Automotive News article: "To differentiate the brands further, Jaguar will move away from SUV-style vehicles while Land Rover will continue to focus on SUVs with its Range Rover, Discovery and Defender model families, Bollore said"

First, tie hands behind back. Next...

 

[mbukukanyau]

Lexus has been in free fall for ~5 years or so. Why? Just look at the strength of the German lineups. And look at how Lexus models and designs haven't iterated in the same period. They are still the 3rd largest luxury brand in the US, marginally behind BMW but nearly 50K units behind Mercedes.

If you think the RX is an Equinox, you best head over to a Lexus dealership. They're not even in the same ballpark.

A Blazer Ford Edge with leather, is really what the RX is, less power too, yeah, very nice materials and all, but beyond that, it’s got no technology worthy of the Lexus brand

 

[Oldsmobile stopped]

If the grid is knocked out, gas powered car are knocked out too. Unless you have hamster powered gas pumps.
Right now, it may be an issue. Ultimately, it'll be fine.
I'll leave it to the automotive industry or Silicon Valley to figure out innovative charging solutions.

If your grid gets knocked it will knock out your gasoline pumps at your local station at this moment in time, it's something that does not occur at the moment, obviously you need a better backup grid cable that that could deliver electric power to a small down big city in via alternate another route.

US needs to invest more in a national hydrogen infrastructure as well, it might help cut the dependence on Chinese rare earth materials & Arab oils, microbeads being developed are pretty safe will be less volatile than gasoline.

British Airways is teaming up with SAF producer LanzaJet and helping to fund its first commercial-scale plant in the US state of Georgia.
The airline will purchase SAF from the US plant to power a number of flights starting from late 2022; meanwhile, the deal that’s been struck also includes early-stage planning for a potential LanzaJet large-scale commercial biorefinery in the UK.

Construction on the Georgia plant is slated to begin this year.

The facility will convert sustainable ethanol – a chemical compound widely blended with petrol to reduce its carbon intensity – into sustainable aviation fuel using a patented chemical process.

This fuel will reduce emissions by 70 per cent compared to regular jet fuel, according to BA.

Rolls Royce Pearl 700 has run on unblended SAF was successfully used for the first time in engine ground tests on a Rolls Royce Trent 1000 engine in Derby, UK.

The carrier already has an existing partnership with sustainable fuels technology company Velocys, with the goal of building a UK facility able to produce renewable sustainable jet fuel by 2025, by converting household and commercial waste.

Progressing the development and commercial deployment of sustainable aviation fuel is crucial to decarbonising the aviation industry and this partnership with LanzaJet shows the progress British Airways is making as we continue on our journey to net zero.”

In another recent development in the airline industry, Dutch flag carrier KLM announced that, in January, it had operated the world’s first passenger flight partly flown on sustainably produced synthetic kerosene.

The Netherlands, a leading advocate for Synthetic Sustainable Aviation Fuels, wants to stimulate the development and application of biofuels and synthetic kerosene so that European airlines will be able to fly entirely on sustainable fuel by 2050.

There are lots of alternative out there for power generation in future, it won't just be electric.