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Land Rover Range Rover Sport, . It doesn’t make a very good case for itself. It’s small and cramped.for example it is smack in the middle of higher end Yukons Pricing, then a little high, yo start getting into Navigator and Escalade territory. For even the rich that are not into show biz, $110K is pushing it for a vehicle
RR Sport is an odd duck. Always has been. Right now, it's also ~ 8 years old, with an update pending in 1-2 years. It's currently 3-4 years post-MCE.
That being said, it's technically a mid-sizer and not comparable to Yukons or Escalade. It's more comparable to X5 or X7.
 

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RR Sport is an odd duck. Always has been. Right now, it's also ~ 8 years old, with an update pending in 1-2 years. It's currently 3-4 years post-MCE.
That being said, it's technically a mid-sizer and not comparable to Yukons or Escalade. It's more comparable to X5 or X7.
Price point is key to my opinion. And that also plays into the larger Range Rover. Given its right smack starts at Navigator/Escalade price points, and frankly offers little in terms of appeal, the rest of the world, Land Cruiser eats its lunch, primarily due to reliability concerns.
 

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I wonder if the fat lady is warming up for her big performance in regards to Jaguar. The XJ should've been pretty damn far along during development when the cancellation came down and the rest of the brand can't possibly be that healthy...XE, XF, etc. With RR occupying damn near every SUV category, what is the purpose of a car-less Jaguar?
you would have to think that Jaguar will concentrate on sports cars and leave everything else to LnadRover/RangeRover
 

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Price point is key to my opinion. And that also plays into the larger Range Rover. Given its right smack starts at Navigator/Escalade price points, and frankly offers little in terms of appeal, the rest of the world, Land Cruiser eats its lunch, primarily due to reliability concerns.
For price sensitive buyers, sure, it may be a concern.
But price point is not nearly as important to luxury buyers.
Land Cruiser is not a competitor to Range Rover — It would be Lexus LX. And the LX still falls woefully behind in many specs, mainly due to Toyota's inability to keep up.

Price is just one factor. I'll give you an example.
My friend just bought an RR Sport with a 518HP V8 a few months ago. She didn't want the SVA because she didn't want her kids reclining in the back seat captain's chairs.
She also wouldn't be cause dead in a Yukon. And doesn't want an Escalade. According to her, she doesn't want to be in a "blingmobile."

Reliability concerns? She's got none and has already put serious miles on it so far. This is her second RR, third LR overall. Zero significant issues. As she says, "Just buy the extended warranty." She goes between her homes in San Francisco, Salt Lake City, and some BFE town 2 hours north of Houston. (She complains about the lack of good Chinese food.) She's driven it through Las Vegas and Palm Springs to visit mutual friends, and driven it to Mexico for a family weekend away. Oh yeah, she went right thru Texas in the RR Sport this past weekend's winter storm, via Las Vegas (for a high end shopping excursion). Zero issues. Though, she wasn't going 120 mph, like she seemingly does all the time, which, BTW, you're not going to do in a Yukon or LX.
 

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I wish people would stop using RR for Range Rover. RR is and will continue to be RollsRoyce. perhaps use small r's ie LR/rr.
The problem I see with electric only vehicles is when you have a natural disaster like in Texas or a war. In a war your grid is going to be a major target. To power your electric vehicle away from the grid you are going to need a generator running on petrol/diesel. I encourage hybrids rather than full electrics.
 

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I wish people would stop using RR for Range Rover. RR is and will continue to be RollsRoyce. perhaps use small r's ie LR/rr.
The problem I see with electric only vehicles is when you have a natural disaster like in Texas or a war. In a war your grid is going to be a major target. To power your electric vehicle away from the grid you are going to need a generator running on petrol/diesel. I encourage hybrids rather than full electrics.
Pedantically, R-R is Rolls-Royce so RR is fine for Range Rover.

I wish JLR themselves would stop referring to Land Rover Range Rover and just use Range Rover - keeping Land Rover for Discovery and Defender.
 

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Pedantically, R-R is Rolls-Royce so RR is fine for Range Rover.
LOL. I had the same thought but didn't type it out. (Glad you did though...lolz...)

I wish JLR themselves would stop referring to Land Rover Range Rover and just use Range Rover - keeping Land Rover for Discovery and Defender.
Yeah. The whole Land Rover naming scheme is really bad and confusing.
Land Rover is the brand. Range Rover is the sub-brand. Sport/Velar/Evoque are the models. Except Range Rover is also a model. So they break it up officially as "family" — Range Rover, Defender, Discovery. Which still doesn't make total sense the way the products fall.
 

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I wish people would stop using RR for Range Rover. RR is and will continue to be RollsRoyce. perhaps use small r's ie LR/rr.
The problem I see with electric only vehicles is when you have a natural disaster like in Texas or a war. In a war your grid is going to be a major target. To power your electric vehicle away from the grid you are going to need a generator running on petrol/diesel. I encourage hybrids rather than full electrics.
If the grid is knocked out, gas powered car are knocked out too. Unless you have hamster powered gas pumps.
Right now, it may be an issue. Ultimately, it'll be fine.
I'll leave it to the automotive industry or Silicon Valley to figure out innovative charging solutions.
 

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I wish people would stop using RR for Range Rover. RR is and will continue to be RollsRoyce. perhaps use small r's ie LR/rr.
The problem I see with electric only vehicles is when you have a natural disaster like in Texas or a war. In a war your grid is going to be a major target. To power your electric vehicle away from the grid you are going to need a generator running on petrol/diesel. I encourage hybrids rather than full electrics.
In a temporary power outage, an EV can be quite useful especially if vehicle-to-house power solutions become widespread. If the grid is permanently damaged, you've got far bigger problems than fueling your vehicle.
 

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I know that e-vehicles are trendy nowadays but I am not sure if it a good idea to get rid of gas cars.
EV's have been around for some time. They just didn't become truly usable until about 2012. We're not even a decade into this evolution of the auto yet.

A lot of the concern has been mitigated by the current technology set. It's not entirely perfect yet.

We're about 10-15 years out until the first set of government regulations hit the marketplace. So it would behoove the automakers to move in that direction now versus 2-5 years before it hits. And it varies between location.
40% of vehicles sold need to be EV in China by 2030. The UK and I think EU, it's 2030. In California, it's 2035. Some cities are creating LEZ or ZEZ (Low/Zero Emissions Zones), so you'll need a PHEV or BEV to even drive in these areas anyways, and I think those start in 2025.

I don't think any region is getting rid of gas cars entirely. But they are being phased out within the next 2 decades at least. And maybe it'll be 3-4 decades, ultimately. But that's why the Japanese and JLR seem to be hedging on hydrogen ICE's.
 

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you would have to think that Jaguar will concentrate on sports cars and leave everything else to LnadRover/RangeRover
I think the Jaguar lineup will be electric versions of XE, XF, E-Pace, F-Pace, I-Pace, and F-Type. There's probably room for a "J-Pace" as a full-sized CUV flagship as well.
So long as Jaguar focuses on it's sport an luxury heritage, they can continue to differentiate their CUVs from the Land Rovers.

The market still prefers CUVs over traditional sedans. And coupes/convertibles have a very limited market these days anyways.

I think it's a smart move by Jaguar. Besides, Porsche is following down the BEV path too. BEV Macan is due out soon.
 

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For price sensitive buyers, sure, it may be a concern.
But price point is not nearly as important to luxury buyers.
Land Cruiser is not a competitor to Range Rover — It would be Lexus LX. And the LX still falls woefully behind in many specs, mainly due to Toyota's inability to keep up.

Price is just one factor. I'll give you an example.
My friend just bought an RR Sport with a 518HP V8 a few months ago. She didn't want the SVA because she didn't want her kids reclining in the back seat captain's chairs.
She also wouldn't be cause dead in a Yukon. And doesn't want an Escalade. According to her, she doesn't want to be in a "blingmobile."

Reliability concerns? She's got none and has already put serious miles on it so far. This is her second RR, third LR overall. Zero significant issues. As she says, "Just buy the extended warranty." She goes between her homes in San Francisco, Salt Lake City, and some BFE town 2 hours north of Houston. (She complains about the lack of good Chinese food.) She's driven it through Las Vegas and Palm Springs to visit mutual friends, and driven it to Mexico for a family weekend away. Oh yeah, she went right thru Texas in the RR Sport this past weekend's winter storm, via Las Vegas (for a high end shopping excursion). Zero issues. Though, she wasn't going 120 mph, like she seemingly does all the time, which, BTW, you're not going to do in a Yukon or LX.
There is a lot of buyers out there who can easily afford Range Rovers but are not in the business of brands. They are practical buyers and look at what they get for their money.
 

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There is a lot of buyers out there who can easily afford Range Rovers but are not in the business of brands. They are practical buyers and look at what they get for their money.
Of course there are buyers like that. That's also NOT the type of customer Range Rover is after.

Doesn't matter if it's a low end care or a high end car, it is ALWAYS about the brand.
Why did people buy a Camaro over a Firebird? Same car, right?
Why do people buy GMC over Chevy or vice versa? Same truck right?
It's the brand and the perceptions that come with it.


You always operate from the flawed notion that buyers will only spend X amount in order to get what they paid for or extract some "value." You have never shown the ability to understand the mindset of the luxury buyer.
Those buyers derive value from the brand and the perception of the brand and the reputation of the brand. Price is not the only factor in consideration in the purchase process.

Yes, there are price sensitive buyers. But if you're buying a $100,000 car, chances are, you're not that price sensitive. If you have that much flexibility in your purchasing power, then you as a consumer will use other factors in your decision.
 

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Of course there are buyers like that. That's also NOT the type of customer Range Rover is after.

Doesn't matter if it's a low end care or a high end car, it is ALWAYS about the brand.
Why did people buy a Camaro over a Firebird? Same car, right?
Why do people buy GMC over Chevy or vice versa? Same truck right?
It's the brand and the perceptions that come with it.


You always operate from the flawed notion that buyers will only spend X amount in order to get what they paid for or extract some "value." You have never shown the ability to understand the mindset of the luxury buyer.
Those buyers derive value from the brand and the perception of the brand and the reputation of the brand. Price is not the only factor in consideration in the purchase process.

Yes, there are price sensitive buyers. But if you're buying a $100,000 car, chances are, you're not that price sensitive. If you have that much flexibility in your purchasing power, then you as a consumer will use other factors in your decision.
I get the brand thing, What I think you do not seem understand is that there is a very small niche that is all in brand and brand only, JLR cannot survive and thrive on those, as experience has showed.... They have gone after those buyers and look where they are.
 

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I get the brand thing, What I think you do not seem understand is that there is a very small niche that is all in brand and brand only, JLR cannot survive and thrive on those, as experience has showed.... They have gone after those buyers and look where they are.
Well...No.
JLR can survive on LR alone. They have a very strong, high margin lineup, that is buoyed by the changing tastes in customer preferences for CUV/SUVs.
It's the Jaguar half of JLR that is having recurring issues. And they do have issues generating sales for their supposed volume cars (XE and XF). It didn't help that they're old and withered on the vine while the competition updated frequently and kept raising the bar. The revised XF is really nice, but it should have arrived 2 years ago. The new powertrains are nice, but again, should have arrived 2 years ago.

Worldwide sales of Jaguar for 6 lines (E, F, I-Pace, XE, XF, F-Type) was barely over 100,000 — down ~85K from peak. A lot of it was Covid related, but that's no real excuse. LR recovered nicely towards the end of 2020, especially with the 0% financing promotion they were running.
  • F-Type. It's a coupe and purposely low volume anyways. It's an aspirational car.
  • I-Pace. Modest sales. 2021 MY fixed a lot of the issues from previous models and upgraded the interior; however, due to covid and a supply problem that has extended to other auto manufacturers, I-Pace sales have dropped. But, 2021 MY is skipped in the US because of supply problems.
  • E-Pace and F-Pace are the best selling Jags. They were just refreshed, and they look quite nice, and fixes the core problems from the previous model years. Is it enough? Probably just enough to hold the line... barely.
  • XE has been a disaster in the US and modest elsewhere. It never provided the volume expected.
  • XF is too long in the tooth. The update is nice, but like I said, 2 years too late.
  • XJ spent too much time on the vine without updates. No wonder it died, as S-Class and others upgraded. Throw in Model S, Quattroporte, CLS, A7/R7, and a bunch of other flagship-adjacent cars, and XJ became an afterthought.
Jaguar is first and foremost a sports car brand and then a maker of high-image luxury cars. The best analog to Jaguar in the market today is Porsche — a sports car maker first and then luxury sedans and CUVs second. Porsche thrives on brand recognition and caters to customers who want the Porsche name. Jaguar has not cultivated that image. A lot of it has to do with shuffling ownership and managing different expectations. A lot of it is also investment waste.

Now, I don't know what the "new Jaguar" is going to look like. But the CEO has stated that there may not be a Jaguar sports car in the new Jaguar. And while that's disappointing for Jaguar die hards, there is very little money there without significant investment. If Jaguar is to survive, then it has to reinvent the full line. And that means recognizable BEV cars that at least take a nod to Jaguar history but look towards a BEV future. If this manages to secure Jaguar's future, THEN a return to the sports car and maybe even the XJ would make sense. You have to remember, Porsche's first attempt at electrification was 11 or so years ago — the 918. I'd assume the same length of time for Jaguar.
 

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I assume Jag is going to have a LOT of X4 "sport utility coupe" type of "CUV" cars with Land rover covering the "truck-like" SUV segment and JAG stating no SUVS if referring to the truck-looking SUV VS the coupe - inspired things
Jaguars "core" sales - reputation is in LARGE touring saloons and I think a coupe-SUV GT thing if done right could sell reasonably well as a coutre point to land rover / Range Rover SUVS
I now the NEW defender has sold quite well out my way and I have seen WAY more of them VS new Escalades / Navigators BUT 10X the number of BMW X5 / MERC ML
 

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Well...No.
JLR can survive on LR alone. They have a very strong, high margin lineup, that is buoyed by the changing tastes in customer preferences for CUV/SUVs.
It's the Jaguar half of JLR that is having recurring issues. And they do have issues generating sales for their supposed volume cars (XE and XF). It didn't help that they're old and withered on the vine while the competition updated frequently and kept raising the bar. The revised XF is really nice, but it should have arrived 2 years ago. The new powertrains are nice, but again, should have arrived 2 years ago.

Worldwide sales of Jaguar for 6 lines (E, F, I-Pace, XE, XF, F-Type) was barely over 100,000 — down ~85K from peak. A lot of it was Covid related, but that's no real excuse. LR recovered nicely towards the end of 2020, especially with the 0% financing promotion they were running.
  • F-Type. It's a coupe and purposely low volume anyways. It's an aspirational car.
  • I-Pace. Modest sales. 2021 MY fixed a lot of the issues from previous models and upgraded the interior; however, due to covid and a supply problem that has extended to other auto manufacturers, I-Pace sales have dropped. But, 2021 MY is skipped in the US because of supply problems.
  • E-Pace and F-Pace are the best selling Jags. They were just refreshed, and they look quite nice, and fixes the core problems from the previous model years. Is it enough? Probably just enough to hold the line... barely.
  • XE has been a disaster in the US and modest elsewhere. It never provided the volume expected.
  • XF is too long in the tooth. The update is nice, but like I said, 2 years too late.
  • XJ spent too much time on the vine without updates. No wonder it died, as S-Class and others upgraded. Throw in Model S, Quattroporte, CLS, A7/R7, and a bunch of other flagship-adjacent cars, and XJ became an afterthought.
Jaguar is first and foremost a sports car brand and then a maker of high-image luxury cars. The best analog to Jaguar in the market today is Porsche — a sports car maker first and then luxury sedans and CUVs second. Porsche thrives on brand recognition and caters to customers who want the Porsche name. Jaguar has not cultivated that image. A lot of it has to do with shuffling ownership and managing different expectations. A lot of it is also investment waste.

Now, I don't know what the "new Jaguar" is going to look like. But the CEO has stated that there may not be a Jaguar sports car in the new Jaguar. And while that's disappointing for Jaguar die hards, there is very little money there without significant investment. If Jaguar is to survive, then it has to reinvent the full line. And that means recognizable BEV cars that at least take a nod to Jaguar history but look towards a BEV future. If this manages to secure Jaguar's future, THEN a return to the sports car and maybe even the XJ would make sense. You have to remember, Porsche's first attempt at electrification was 11 or so years ago — the 918. I'd assume the same length of time for Jaguar.
Thank you for this lengthy and insightful post.
I feel bad for Jaguar. If one looks at Corvette, and what it’s taken to gain its place in the market place, it’s been 20 years of hard racing to become the most dominant endurance racing brand, displacing Ferrari, Ford and Porsche in the endurance segment of racing, and that is what Jaguar needs. Some serious commitment to racing or whatever path they chose.

For corvette, they have overtaken all brands at Le Mans to now have the most ardent fan club, and without the commitment, it would never have even so.

Land Rover made a mistake by not sticking to its roots with defender. I hope for their sake they do not make a similar mistake with Range Rover. So the Land Rover brand is now ridding on Range Rover, it used to be the other way.
 

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Thank you for this lengthy and insightful post.
I feel bad for Jaguar. If one looks at Corvette, and what it’s taken to gain its place in the market place, it’s been 20 years of hard racing to become the most dominant endurance racing brand, displacing Ferrari, Ford and Porsche in the endurance segment of racing, and that is what Jaguar needs. Some serious commitment to racing or whatever path they chose.

For corvette, they have overtaken all brands at Le Mans to now have the most ardent fan club, and without the commitment, it would never have even so.
Corvette is GM's best managed brand. Not only is it well recognized AND respected, it also experiences the same outside of the US!! This is also why I say GM has left money on the table with its pricing.
It is exactly what Jaguar needed and got very little of. It's why they should have launched a limited edition supercar based off the C-X75 way back when.
Whatever JLR decides to do, I hope it doesn't stray too far from Jaguar's history, lest it become unrecognizable. (This is what Cadillac did/is doing.). I understand the need for reinvention. But like I said, Jaguar is a sport car mark and then a maker of distinctive luxury cars. It can't deviate too far from that. It has to be crafted and managed properly. Just think what could have happened to Porsche, as they released Cayenne, Macan, and Panamera. But they are sports cars in their own right. They are distinctly Porsche. And it's happening again now with Taycan. If Jaguar hews closely to Porsche's strategy, they'll be fine in the long run. But this is probably their last chance.

Land Rover made a mistake by not sticking to its roots with defender. I hope for their sake they do not make a similar mistake with Range Rover. So the Land Rover brand is now ridding on Range Rover, it used to be the other way.
Yes. Land Rover made some mistakes over the years. This new Defender takes some large steps to fixing that mistake — for better or worse. But critics are finding that despite its construction, it seems to be incredibly capable anyways. Time will tell though.

Range Rover is most susceptible right now. Luxury buyers are fickle. But Range Rover's brand is very strong, highly recognizable, and distinct. It needs to be able to maintain that distinction that it's built over the last few decades, and it needs to be able to compete at the $300,000 level without any second thoughts.
I can see a future Range Rover SVAutobiography LWB starting at $250,000 base — A $40K increase from where it is today. It would have the Ingenium I-6 with battery system with a combined 600HP. I would expect a fully (or nearly fully) bespoke interior to match or rival Cullinan. I'd also expect a nearly all-glass ****pit -- the next gen of what they have now -- to match Maybach. I'd also expect the full complement of Range Rover off-road capabilities. Plus the autonomous vehicle system being co-developed with Waymo. I would expect this to cost $275-300,000... easy. The question really is, can Range Rover survive at a higher luxury tier? I think it can, given the necessary upgrades. Right now, it tops out at $220,000, which is still nothing to sneeze at. But it needs to go up.
 
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