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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To me, those two things alone make a huge difference. But a lot of the time you have you upgrade to a higher trim level just to get them. I understand why they do it. But sometimes it seems like it would hurt them more than it helps.

I mean take a look at this. Here is the European Aveo with some nice wheels and ground effects.



Not bad. I would consider that. But here is the American version.



....It's like a joke. I wouldn't drive that in a million years.

The new Pontiac Vibe is the same way. You have to get the $20,000 GT just to get a model that doesn't make your eyes bleed.

So my point is, don't you think it would be more beneficial to just go ahead an add these things like the base model in order to make them more appealing? One of the (very few) things I admire about the Matrix is they make the ground effects standard. And it probably helped that car a whole lot.
 

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So my point is, don't you think it would be more beneficial to just go ahead an add these things like the base model in order to make them more appealing? One of the (very few) things I admire about the Matrix is they make the ground effects standard. And it probably helped that car a whole lot.
I agree with you, only on certain models though. With cars like the Aveo & Vibe.....yeah, slightly bigger wheels and some better bodywork would definitely benefit em.....hell, even the Focus could use some of that.
 

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yeah, it would benefit. but you could just buy them yourself afterwards- and probably for a lot cheaper than what theyd charge you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
^Well the thing is when someone looks at an ugly Aveo, they aren't going to think "oh wow this would look a lot better if I get some of the accessories from the LTZ". They're going to think "oh wow that's ugly".

Plus a lot of the times you can't buy them as accessories. Like with the Vibe. If you want those wheels and ground effects, you have to get the GT. And with the Aveo... Im not even sure if those are going to be available at all, on any model.
 

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^Well the thing is when someone looks at an ugly Aveo, they aren't going to think "oh wow this would look a lot better if I get some of the accessories from the LTZ". They're going to think "oh wow that's ugly".

Plus a lot of the times you can't buy them as accessories. Like with the Vibe. If you want those wheels and ground effects, you have to get the GT. And with the Aveo... Im not even sure if those are going to be available at all, on any model.
i agree with the first paragraph. but with your second, i meant completely aftermarket- not necessarily gm stuff.
 

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GM (and other car manufacturers ... GM isn't alone) do this because they can advertise "Car X only $Y!) but if you want to get one that has the options that most people would want then they charge you $Y+$Z. And "Yes" it would be cheaper to go aftermarket, but 90% of the buying public will not consider that option.
 

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Compacts and subcompacts run a slim profit margin, so the manufacturer is not going to want to eat that cost. Many buyers of such cars are on a budget, so such a solution to the above would not work either, since those consumers are looking for value.

The best solution is to just not make the ugly in the first place.:) They should make it look decent even in base trim.
 

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i meant completely aftermarket- not necessarily gm stuff.
Most aftermarket companies won't even consider making a kit for them. It would be a low volumn seller and most of those that were interested won't want to pay the $1000+paint to have it done on a car so cheap to begin with.
 

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The best solution is to just not make the ugly in the first place.:) They should make it look decent even in base trim.
Bingo. My old roommate (who's not a car guy) asked me if it cost more to design a car that looked good. He's an engineer and he had a good point, and something I'd never really thought about. Why don't more small, inexpensive cars look (at least a little bit) appealing?
Yes, there are a lot of finishing details that make a decent-looking cars look good that quickly add up, but for the most part, you'd think it would be possible to get an entry-level car that looks decent. I'm an old soul, but I really think that in the 60s, GM had this down. Look at Chevy IIs (Novas) and Corvairs. Ramblers are also a great looking "economy" car. Granted, most cars looked better in the late 1960s, but there's no reason that you have to spend $30,000 to get a stylish car.

End of rant.
Ok, there are a few exceptions. I like Mini Coopers, Opel Corsas, and a handful of small cars, but they are few and far between.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Bingo. My old roommate (who's not a car guy) asked me if it cost more to design a car that looked good. He's an engineer and he had a good point, and something I'd never really thought about. Why don't more small, inexpensive cars look (at least a little bit) appealing?
Yes, there are a lot of finishing details that make a decent-looking cars look good that quickly add up, but for the most part, you'd think it would be possible to get an entry-level car that looks decent. I'm an old soul, but I really think that in the 60s, GM had this down. Look at Chevy IIs (Novas) and Corvairs. Ramblers are also a great looking "economy" car. Granted, most cars looked better in the late 1960s, but there's no reason that you have to spend $30,000 to get a stylish car.

End of rant.
Ok, there are a few exceptions. I like Mini Coopers, Opel Corsas, and a handful of small cars, but they are few and far between.
Well as someone above said, small cars don't make very much money. I mean look at the Sunfire and Cavalier. Those were nice (looking) cars and sold very well... and it didn't do GM any good. Toyota and Honda definitely make a lot more on their compacts, which is probably why they are willing to make them fairly nice.
 

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It's all about cost, as others have mentioned. European cars cost buyers considerably more than in the US. GM doesn't make much off the Aveo- in fact I believe it loses money on them. If they could get buyers to pay 2-3k more, I think you'd see more sporty options for the US subcompacts.

You also have to remember that the Aveo over there is equivallent to the Malibu over here. Their smaller cars are their biggest market. In the US, it's still too small and is undesireable at this point.
 

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Well as someone above said, small cars don't make very much money. I mean look at the Sunfire and Cavalier. Those were nice (looking) cars and sold very well... and it didn't do GM any good. Toyota and Honda definitely make a lot more on their compacts, which is probably why they are willing to make them fairly nice.
I'm not even talking about content, I just mean proportions. Most inexpensive cars don't have a desirable body shape, and I can't think of any reason why you can't make a car look good from even 20 feet away.
 

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Well as someone above said, small cars don't make very much money. I mean look at the Sunfire and Cavalier. Those were nice (looking) cars and sold very well... and it didn't do GM any good. Toyota and Honda definitely make a lot more on their compacts, which is probably why they are willing to make them fairly nice.
Ehh, I will have to disagree with the Toyota part. Corollas look terribly cheap in basic and midlevel trim. I do not like the overall design that much; I think it's just okay; but the less expensive models just scream "cheap!"
 

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Ehh, I will have to disagree with the Toyota part. Corollas look terribly cheap in basic and midlevel trim. I do not like the overall design that much; I think it's just okay; but the less expensive models just scream "cheap!"
The Corolla basically defines the "cheap looking car" in basically any trim. Maybe the one with alloys is better but only marginally. The only car worse was the old Echo.



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I think it was one of the Ferrari stylists that said "Good design doesn't cost any more than bad design". The US car companies could really learn from that with their cheap cars. No two ways abotu it, the Fit looks 10 times better than the Aveo. Small has to mean cheap, it doesn't have to mean ugly.
 

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It's all about cost, as others have mentioned. European cars cost buyers considerably more than in the US. GM doesn't make much off the Aveo- in fact I believe it loses money on them. If they could get buyers to pay 2-3k more, I think you'd see more sporty options for the US subcompacts.

You also have to remember that the Aveo over there is equivallent to the Malibu over here. Their smaller cars are their biggest market. In the US, it's still too small and is undesireable at this point.
The Astra is probably a good example of this...Europe can make good "premium compacts"
 
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