[Ming]

Something struck me as unpleasantly familiar about the whole "Hybrid" debate.

It looks to me like something the Japanese can once again hang over the heads of the Big 3, claiming technological superiority in powertrains.

And again, GM is talking about this way or that way that they will deal with it, 5 years from now. Stick a mild hybrid system in some pickups that already have a diesel engine option available and call it a day until 2008. DOD for 10% fuel savings, and a single hydrogen minivan for the postal service to use in Washington.

Basically, a lot of excuses and explanations about why you don't need a real hybrid, and why they won't offer one yet.

Remember the "DOHC" and "Twin Cam" emblems that used to decorate the sides of some cars? Funny that now that GM has for the most part caught up there - and made it less exclusive, Toyohonda raise the bar again. I have a feeling that "Hybrid" is going to be the next big thing, esp. with the Hybrid Accord having over 240 horsepower - they won't be pokey little econocars.

Meanwhile, GM plans some things in the near future - always a year away, it seems....

Look, I still like Pushrod engines. I like DOD as a concept. I just think GM is losing the PR game on this one.....again.

 

[T-Type]

I've had the same kind of thoughts myself. GM always seems to be behind the curve. My only thought is that GM has only begun to pull itself out of it's slump. The ability to field a good hybrid (or any other new idea) takes many years of planning and preparation. This kind of thing doesn't happen overnight. We are still seeing the effects of past long term decisions by previous management. It will be a while before we see the effects of long term decisions by current management. Assuming they are making good ones now.

Of course the other argument is that GM really does know something the other automakers don't. :ninja: Well, it is possible.

 

[Ghrankenstein]

I really think that the current woes of the Prius and Civic hybrids indicate that the industry, and the public, have a lot more to learn about hybrid powertrains.

Even with the mild-hybrid Silverado, GM is providing a tangible benefit to its customers, while that benefit has not been present for Prius/Civic owners.

If 2005 JD Power numbers don't reflect the real picture, the -vast- discrepencies in EPA vs. "real world" fuel economy, as the H2's numbers did, then JD Power will be established almost as non-credible, since Honda/Toyota customers are merely protecting their beloved brands. And they're probably also communists.

Ghrankenstein

 

[thehemi]

The whole hybrid idea sounds like a bandaid solution.

 

[BigAls87Z28]

Maybe Honda can explain how that Accord will be a hybrid when it runs on premium fuel?

I think that GM's attempt into the "hybrid" market will help out a larger group of people. Not everyone wants to drive a Prius. If it didnt have the fancy hybrid engine, would anyone drive it? It would be the laughing stock of the automobile world. It looks like it was already in several crashes.
I agree that GM is loosing the PR battle, but the end of the war seems to be what GM is aiming for. The final step into Fuel Cell technology will be dominated, as it looks right now, by GM.
This is my view on GM's loss in the PR battle.
I see a lot of GM's hybrid ads in car rags. I dont think that it gets the point across. I dont think that people care about the enviroment, as much as the cost to them. Yes, some people care, but others are looking for a cheap car to get stellar gas milage. The hyrbid busses and such really dont effect the consumer. They hear that they "cost more" which inturn costs them more. People here "The busses will save gallons upon gallons of gas, and help out the enviroment...but it will cost more then your average bus." Thats what they dont want to hear. But things like "a $2k tax break to thoes who buy hybrid cars" sticks into peoples mind because they are getting money back, instead of paying the goverment.

Hybrid cars are great, but not everyone wants a Mars space ship design just to get 10 more mpg. I rather see more TD's in small cars that really show the benifits of cheap fuel, and great gas milage along with a long lasting engine. If your battery breaks down, or the hybrid system fails, thats mega money. I think that Saturn should display a lot of the hybrid and TD engines.

I think that the Hyrbid thing is just another thing that GM doesnt do. Its just another OHC vs OHV battle. I can get the same milage from a cheaper Aveo, get a much nicer looking car, and not have to worry about the hybrid stuff falling apart. Just gas and go.

 

[doh]

Hydrogen is only a matter of time. Water in oxygen out then do it again. The safe containment of it in the automobile is only a matter of technoligy yet to come.

 

[Ming]

I've said this before, but I think it is a mistake to believe that GM will have the "market cornered" with hydrogen vehicles.

I think this is an excuse to not put out more hybrids.

Search on Honda and Hyundai hydrogen vehicles and you will see what I mean. 5 years from now it is anyone's game, and Toyota, unlike GM, won't let itself get left behind.