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an article from www.egmcartech.com saying
"President Takeo Fukui said that he is targeting a range of $18,864 for the Insight Hybrid when arrives in showrooms - that’s a little more than $3,000 cheaper than the Prius. In terms of fuel-economy, Fukui says the Insight “will mirror” the Civic Hybrid’s 40/45 mpg (city/highway) - the Toyota Prius gets 48/45 mpg."

So, meaning a 30k or perhaps costing more Volt is pretty doomed if the Honda selling it for less than 19k.
I know the Volt is different from the Honda because it use all electric until the battery runs out.
and I still love the volt more than anything else. but the question arrives when people are comparing these two, who would buy a Volt? will you?

http://www.egmcartech.com/2008/10/0...honda-insight-hybrid-to-cost-less-than-19000/
 

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Re: Chevy Volt's Doom Day before it's out?

Asking the people here if they'd buy the Volt over a Honda or Toyota is like going to church and asking, "do you believe in God?".

The Volt does offer distinct advantages for some buyers...but not ALL. If the price is better than anticipated (~$40k), the credits are better than expected (~$6k), and the range is as good or better than reported (40 miles)....then the Volt will be just fine! ;)

Even if only 2 of my 3 happen, I still think the Chevy Volt will succeed.
 

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Volt? At that price it's potentially damaging to the Chevy Cruze.

See the site HERE

This is not some dinky 2-seater Greenie-Weenie mobile like the old Insight.

Perhaps GM should seriously look into making a mild hybrid of the Chevy Cruze. Or deliver on the (dead?) old promise of GMDAT, Suzuki and GM working together on a small hybrid - I recall reading that only two years ago or so (and it probably wouldn't be offered in the States anyway, sigh...).

Right now there is no apparent GM strategy to offer an inexpensive, fuel efficient compact that has some kind of hybrid assist technology --- not that I recall. Lots of SUVs and crossovers and mid-size sedans - but no hyper-mileage "affordable hybrid".

The Cruze would seem the perfect car to improve, even if the boost is only a couple of miles per gallon with a simple BAS hybrid system (since it already will get good MPG), as long as the price could be kept close to where the regular Cruze is. But then the debate comes again with the look of a dedicated hybrid vs. a Civic Hybrid type of vehicle.

That, or an "XFE" Cruze that skips the fat, shiny rims for small skinny tires, and adds a less stylish but more aerodynamic air dam and grille, etc. Problem with the XFE Cruze idea is that I'm assuming that GM is working their hardest to make sure it gets the best fuel economy possible at launch, so an XFE later may not have much to improve on.

I hope the great mileage and novel approach of the Cruze's small but turbocharged engine can end up a winner for GM at the economical end -- but it won't be a matc for Honda if an Insight can be had for that kind of price tag with the Cruze priced not far from it.

I'll need to see the final specs and price tags of both the Cruze and Insight.
 

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How long would you have to own, and how much would you have to drive, the Volt until the money you save on gas equals the money you save on getting the "Insight II"? The Volt is going to get r*p*d. I'm sad now.
 

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Volt will have over 100 mpg. this is not volt competation. Volt is like nothing in japanese showrooms till like 2015
 

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Asking the people here if they'd buy the Volt over a Honda or Toyota is like going to church and asking, "do you believe in God?".
LOL! You should make that your signature, except maybe change "the Volt" to "GM."

Volt? At that price it's potentially damaging to the Chevy Cruze.

See the site HERE

This is not some dinky 2-seater Greenie-Weenie mobile like the old Insight.

Perhaps GM should seriously look into making a mild hybrid of the Chevy Cruze. Or deliver on the (dead?) old promise of GMDAT, Suzuki and GM working together on a small hybrid - I recall reading that only two years ago or so (and it probably wouldn't be offered in the States anyway, sigh...).

Right now there is no apparent GM strategy to offer an inexpensive, fuel efficient compact that has some kind of hybrid assist technology --- not that I recall. Lots of SUVs and crossovers and mid-size sedans - but no hyper-mileage "affordable hybrid".

The Cruze would seem the perfect car to improve, even if the boost is only a couple of miles per gallon with a simple BAS hybrid system (since it already will get good MPG), as long as the price could be kept close to where the regular Cruze is. But then the debate comes again with the look of a dedicated hybrid vs. a Civic Hybrid type of vehicle.

That, or an "XFE" Cruze that skips the fat, shiny rims for small skinny tires, and adds a less stylish but more aerodynamic air dam and grille, etc. Problem with the XFE Cruze idea is that I'm assuming that GM is working their hardest to make sure it gets the best fuel economy possible at launch, so an XFE later may not have much to improve on.

I hope the great mileage and novel approach of the Cruze's small but turbocharged engine can end up a winner for GM at the economical end -- but it won't be a matc for Honda if an Insight can be had for that kind of price tag with the Cruze priced not far from it.

I'll need to see the final specs and price tags of both the Cruze and Insight.
All very good points. I would hope that GM has a surprise up its sleeve (although the Volt seems to have zero left to the imagination). GM could allow the initial Volt to debut with 40mi electric range at somewhere around $35-40K ($27,500-$32,500 with government credit) and let the pent up demand swallow every one they can build and maybe even get a bit of profit while they're at it, or at least pay off some development.

Then, instead of trying to MPG-flog the Cruze (which as you said, failed on Accord and pales Prius results on the Civic), they would sell a Volt with say half the batteries, or even a quarter, or an eighth at more reasonable prices. 40 miles is great, 20 would probably still work for a lot of people. 10 could even work if there was a place to plug in at work. Though 5 would only make sense as simply a cheaper hybrid that could get great mileage but not really be expected to have the engine off much of the time. Maybe:

40mi - $35-40K
20mi - $30-35K
10mi - $25-30K
5mi - $20-25K

The prices of the lower range models could also be dropped a bit by swapping out some of the glitzy interior stuff with Cruze pieces or just eliminating it entirely. The fancy exterior lighting could be toned down as well. That would also help keep more of an incentive to go for the top model, and with each $5K put in, you double your electric range.

Still, the Cruze should be alarmingly close to the MPG of the Insight while being quicker and more nicely appointed. One thing about the new 2008 EPA ratings that really piss me off is that they were supposed to make advertised hybrid mileage more realistic, but from what I've seen of how they are driven, the ratings are still optimistic or at least accurate. Unfortunately, all other cars now rank below what they actually get in the real world. Even with the old ratings, my Trans Am (auto) is supposed to get 24mpg highway. If I'm traveling 70-75mph (which is already speeding) I'll get 25-26mpg depending on how hilly the terrain is. I've broken 26mpg before and I'm sure going the speed limit on flat terrain I could surely hit 27mpg. The new ratings rate my car at 22 hwy, which is nuts. I can drive 85 through the mountains here and beat that. Anyway, my point is in the real world, the Cruze may actually be a realistic competitor to the Insight, even if the public doesn't realize it.
 

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Placing all hopes on a single vehicle (the Volt) is like investing all your money on one stock. If it runs up you have made some money, if not you're broke! Diversification is a prudent course, especially with the ease in fuel costs. Bio-diesel hybrids, would offer much greater range, higher torque (in both diesel and electric modes), and could be the answer for converting the SUV into a more viable transportation opportunity.

My concern and I have stated this so many times is: Introducing the Volt as a Chevrolet, will place it in the association of discount/discounted vehicles. Neither Honda or Toyota have that distinction! It should have been marketed more upmarket, either by Buick or Cadillac, of course with much more style.
 

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It’s a pity the Volt didn't offer more car for the money and more family sized space......

Think same size as the Volt battery pack and same engine but with the turbo stuck back on it for 50% more power. And upgrade the generator and emotor by 50%.

Assuming this is 30% more aero drag and 30% more weight (as the battery pack stays the same) then you should roughly be able to go 25-30 miles on a charge. There would be many soccer mums doing school and shopping runs that would be happy with that, and after the charge is done they get 35 mpg in a 7 seater.

Price it at $46K and with the $7.5K Fed rebate at $38.5K I think if fitted out to Volt standard it would seem like a better value. And there would be competition for it.

VanVolt





;)
 

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...The Cruze would seem the perfect car to improve... ...But then the debate comes again with the look of a dedicated hybrid vs. a Civic Hybrid type of vehicle...
I wonder what would happen if GM took all their high-or-extra mileage vehicles to their aerodynamicists & said, "Make 'em slippery-er and don't worry about looking weird - in fact weird might be good"...
think maybe they'd pay for the development costs with owners of regular models modding their vehicles with the new 'cool' fx & rims.

re: the Volt
some people (like me) would only buy gas if going on a roadtrip vacation
Insight - not so much ...errr, I mean waaaaaaaay more (gasoline)
 

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The Volt isn't the final solution, but rather a huge first step for GM (again) with electric vehicles. Let's get the Volt out, continually refine the technology, extend it to other platforms where it makes sense, and go from there.
 

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I wonder what would happen if GM took all their high-or-extra mileage vehicles to their aerodynamicists & said, "Make 'em slippery-er and don't worry about looking weird - in fact weird might be good"...
think maybe they'd pay for the development costs with owners of regular models modding their vehicles with the new 'cool' fx & rims.
I did that sort of aero treatment with this GM SUV.....which should get better mpg, especially if it was two mode with a small turbo V6 and had a Volt style battery pack for plug-in capability.





;)
 

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Seriously, could we declare a "NO Negative Posts Day."

This place could push someone over the edge.
 

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Still, the Cruze should be alarmingly close to the MPG of the Insight while being quicker and more nicely appointed.
+1
45mpg is unimpressive for a full hybrid.
When it's anticipated that something like the Cruze will get into the 40's, why bother?

The Volt's an entirely different story... it's mileage improvement could be double, triple or more. It got that $7500 credit, too... keep MSRP under $37.5K and it's a winner!
 

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In an age of uncertain gas supplies (I think the experience in the south was a taste) I think plug-ins are going to have a major advantage.
 

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Many of you have not figured out the Volt will be a "Halo" car, it's sales will not and are not intended to save the company. The products built around the Volt will however save the company, for now the Volt is the "BIG" attraction that draws the people to the circus. The technology the Volt fosters will benefit GM in uncountable ways, that is where the money will be made. GM "will" sell all the Volts they can produce because enough people with the money will make a statement. This is not a Prius or insight this is a revolutionary automobile. This car will change the way the world powers transportation, "this folks is a trip to the moon". Be happy it's GM and not some Japanese invader that would finish the American Automobile. I can assure you Toyota and Honda are green with envy, and shaking in their boots. THIS PEOPLE IS THE GAME CHANGER, this is the shot from the center stripe,..........string music.
 

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i personally think that if some americans were willing to buy those 30K+ giant gas-guzzling SUVs only a few years ago, some americans would buy a 30+ ONE OF A KIND plug-in electric car. although most people would go with the cruze, prius, or civic, just the fact that GM made an electric car will allow GM to clear itself from the assumption that all GM cars are "gas-guzzlers."
 

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The Volt isn't the final solution, but rather a huge first step for GM (again) with electric vehicles. Let's get the Volt out, continually refine the technology, extend it to other platforms where it makes sense, and go from there.
Agreed. But while it's a huge first step technologically the Volt will actually be a small step, a tiny step, toward the future. It will have no effect on GM's situation except as regards its perception in the public eye. Like everything else it will be grinding grinding grinding that will turn things around. I think that getting the 2-Modes into as many vehicles as possible as quickly as possible is much more cost effecive and much more beneficial to GMs long term health. The general market today or in 2010 is really not ready for plugin technology. It may be ready however by the end of the next decade but not in the next 3-5 yrs. JMHO.

However one of the key perception problems that GM has is with its faithful. For the last 10 yrs or so the idea of buying a GM ( or Ford or Chrysler ) at full sticker keeps the faithful sitting on their collect hands. To expect the typical GM buyer to suddenly agree to pay $40000 up front for a 4 seater commuter is a huge leap of faith on Management's part.

I believe that Management wants to win buyers for the Volt from other manufacturers loyal following, afterall most current GM buyers are truck and SUV buyers. To win back the buyers from other brands and to get them to plunk down $40 Grand means that the Volt is going to have to be shown to be rock solid in reliability. To be able to prove this it's going to have to be on the road for 3-5 yrs with no major problems.

There will always be Innovators, for whom the money is little consideration, who want to be the first to own/drive the latest and greatest technology but there is a well-known curve of the Acceptance of Innovations. It's a 5-10 yr process.
 

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I wonder if the Insight will be contaminated with lots of "smug radiation"?:rolleyes::lmao: (I saw too much the South Park episode "Smug Alert")

Then wouldn't be ironic then Honda could be outsmarted by......Chrysler (I know I dreamed big but it would be fun to imagine :eek:)
 
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